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Humble Pie or Physics

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UK and Europe
Published
2 October 2004
Last activity
3 October 2004
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Sniper8052
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  1. Free Fall and Air Resistance

    All objects (regardless of their mass) free-fall with the same acceleration – 10 m/s2 rounded up. This acceleration value is so important in physics that it has its own peculiar name – the acceleration of gravity – and its own peculiar symbol – "g." But why do all objects free-fall at the same rate of acceleration regardless of their mass? Is it because they all weigh the same? ... because they all have the same gravity? ... because the air resistance is the same for each?

    Why do objects which encounter air resistance ultimately reach a terminal velocity?
    In situations in which there is air resistance, why do massive objects fall faster than less massive objects?

    To answer the above questions, Newton's second law of motion (Fnet = m*a) will be applied to analyze the motion of objects which are falling under the influence of gravity only (free-fall) and under the dual influence of gravity and air resistance.

    Free Fall Motion

    Free-fall is a special type of motion in which the only force acting upon an object is gravity. Objects, which are said to be undergoing free-fall, do not encounter a significant force of air resistance; they are falling under the sole influence of gravity. Under such conditions, all objects will fall with the same rate of acceleration, regardless of their mass. Why? Consider the free-falling motion of a 10-kg rock and a 1-kg rock.

    If Newton's second law were applied to their falling motion, and if free-body diagrams were constructed, you would see that the 10-kg rock experiences a greater force of gravity. This greater force of gravity would have a direct effect upon the rock's acceleration; thus, based on force alone, you might think that the 10-kg rock would accelerate faster. But acceleration depends upon two factors: force and mass. The 10-kg rock obviously has more mass (or inertia) than the 1-kg rock. This increased mass has an inverse effect upon the rock's acceleration. Thus, the direct effect of greater force on the 10-kg rock is offset by the inverse effect of its greater mass; and so each rock accelerates at the same rate – 10 m/s2. The ratio of force to mass (Fnet/m) is the same for each rock in situations involving free fall; this ratio (Fnet/m) is equivalent to the acceleration of the object.

    Falling with Air Resistance

    As an object falls through air, it usually encounters some degree of air resistance. Air resistance is the result of collisions of the object's leading surface with air molecules. The actual amount of air resistance encountered by an object depends upon a variety of factors. The two most common factors which have a direct effect upon the amount of air resistance present are the speed of the object and the cross-sectional area of the object. Increased speeds result in an increased amount of air resistance. Increased cross-sectional areas result in an increased amount of air resistance.

    Terminal Velocity

    Why does an object which encounters air resistance eventually reach a terminal velocity? To answer this question, apply Newton's second law to the motion of a falling skydiver.

    As an object falls, it picks up speed. This increase in speed leads to an increase in the amount of air resistance. Eventually, the force of air resistance becomes large enough to balance the force of gravity. At this instant in time, the net force is 0 Newtons — the object stops accelerating. The object is said to have "reached a terminal velocity." Any change in velocity terminates as a result of the balancing of the individual forces acting upon the object. The velocity at which this occurs is called the "terminal velocity."

    In situations in which there is air resistance, massive objects fall faster than less massive objects. Why? To answer this question. Consider the falling motion of two skydivers: one with a mass of 100 kg (skydiver plus parachute) and the other with a mass of 150 kg (skydiver plus parachute). The amount of air resistance depends upon the speed of the object. Objects like the skydivers above will continue to accelerate to higher speeds until they encounter an amount of air resistance which is equal to their weight. Since the 150-kg skydiver weighs more (experiences a greater force of gravity), he will have to accelerate to a higher speed before reaching his terminal velocity. Thus, massive objects fall faster than less massive objects because they are acted upon by a larger force of gravity; for this reason, they accelerate to higher speeds until the air resistance force equals their gravity force.

    So after some research I was wrong, I'll hold my hands up to that. I did discover that nearly every physics book I looked in said to disregard air resistance as being negligable except where objects differed greatly in mass and/or cross sectional area.
    Still my experience of physics comes from school and putting little lead pills through targets at long range.
    Ho Hum
    Sniper8052

  2. Sniper8052 said:

    Free Fall and Air Resistance

    All objects (regardless of their mass) free-fall with the same acceleration – 10 m/s2 rounded up. This acceleration value is so important in physics that it has its own peculiar name – the acceleration of gravity – and its own peculiar symbol – "g." But why do all objects free-fall at the same rate of acceleration regardless of their mass? Is it because they all weigh the same? ... because they all have the same gravity? ... because the air resistance is the same for each?

    Why do objects which encounter air resistance ultimately reach a terminal velocity?
    In situations in which there is air resistance, why do massive objects fall faster than less massive objects?

    To answer the above questions, Newton's second law of motion (Fnet = m*a) will be applied to analyze the motion of objects which are falling under the influence of gravity only (free-fall) and under the dual influence of gravity and air resistance.

    Free Fall Motion

    Free-fall is a special type of motion in which the only force acting upon an object is gravity. Objects, which are said to be undergoing free-fall, do not encounter a significant force of air resistance; they are falling under the sole influence of gravity. Under such conditions, all objects will fall with the same rate of acceleration, regardless of their mass. Why? Consider the free-falling motion of a 10-kg rock and a 1-kg rock.

    If Newton's second law were applied to their falling motion, and if free-body diagrams were constructed, you would see that the 10-kg rock experiences a greater force of gravity. This greater force of gravity would have a direct effect upon the rock's acceleration; thus, based on force alone, you might think that the 10-kg rock would accelerate faster. But acceleration depends upon two factors: force and mass. The 10-kg rock obviously has more mass (or inertia) than the 1-kg rock. This increased mass has an inverse effect upon the rock's acceleration. Thus, the direct effect of greater force on the 10-kg rock is offset by the inverse effect of its greater mass; and so each rock accelerates at the same rate – 10 m/s2. The ratio of force to mass (Fnet/m) is the same for each rock in situations involving free fall; this ratio (Fnet/m) is equivalent to the acceleration of the object.

    Falling with Air Resistance

    As an object falls through air, it usually encounters some degree of air resistance. Air resistance is the result of collisions of the object's leading surface with air molecules. The actual amount of air resistance encountered by an object depends upon a variety of factors. The two most common factors which have a direct effect upon the amount of air resistance present are the speed of the object and the cross-sectional area of the object. Increased speeds result in an increased amount of air resistance. Increased cross-sectional areas result in an increased amount of air resistance.

    Terminal Velocity

    Why does an object which encounters air resistance eventually reach a terminal velocity? To answer this question, apply Newton's second law to the motion of a falling skydiver.

    As an object falls, it picks up speed. This increase in speed leads to an increase in the amount of air resistance. Eventually, the force of air resistance becomes large enough to balance the force of gravity. At this instant in time, the net force is 0 Newtons — the object stops accelerating. The object is said to have "reached a terminal velocity." Any change in velocity terminates as a result of the balancing of the individual forces acting upon the object. The velocity at which this occurs is called the "terminal velocity."

    In situations in which there is air resistance, massive objects fall faster than less massive objects. Why? To answer this question. Consider the falling motion of two skydivers: one with a mass of 100 kg (skydiver plus parachute) and the other with a mass of 150 kg (skydiver plus parachute). The amount of air resistance depends upon the speed of the object. Objects like the skydivers above will continue to accelerate to higher speeds until they encounter an amount of air resistance which is equal to their weight. Since the 150-kg skydiver weighs more (experiences a greater force of gravity), he will have to accelerate to a higher speed before reaching his terminal velocity. Thus, massive objects fall faster than less massive objects because they are acted upon by a larger force of gravity; for this reason, they accelerate to higher speeds until the air resistance force equals their gravity force.

    So after some research I was wrong, I'll hold my hands up to that. I did discover that nearly every physics book I looked in said to disregard air resistance as being negligable except where objects differed greatly in mass and/or cross sectional area.
    Still my experience of physics comes from school and putting little lead pills through targets at long range.
    Ho Hum
    Sniper8052

    i always thought it was to do with somethings weight and surface area that is pulled downwards to the groud at 9.6newtons per second or something, (gravitational field strengths)

  3. In message <[email hidden]>,
    Sniper8052 <[email hidden]> writes

    Quoted message said:


    Free Fall and Air Resistance


    <snip>

    Quoted message said:

    So after some research I was wrong, I'll hold my hands up to that.

    and the point of the physics lesson was..?

    --
    Chris French, Leeds

  4. chris French said:

    and the point of the physics lesson was..?

    I think he was hoping to maintain some sort of intellectual high ground
    while simultaneously admitting that he had got it all wrong!

    James
    --
    If I have seen further than others, it is
    by treading on the toes of giants.
    http://www.ne.jp/asahi/julesandjames/home/

  5. quote='James Annan'chris French said:

    and the point of the physics lesson was..?

    I think he was hoping to maintain some sort of intellectual high ground
    while simultaneously admitting that he had got it all wrong!

    James
    --
    If I have seen further than others, it is
    by treading on the toes of giants.
    http://www.ne.jp/asahi/julesandjames/home/[/QUOTE]

    Oh for crying out loud give it a rest can't you. Hell I didn't have to say anything.
    Sorry I got it wrong there I've said it, a genuine mistake from my genuinely held beliefs in what I remembered from school. At least I took your points of view and went away to look them up. Having found I was wrong I told you what I had found out and said I was wrong. Isn't that enough?
    Sniper8052.

  6. Sniper8052 said:

    Free Fall and Air Resistance


    <snipped>

    It would have been simpler to go to the top of the Leaning Tower of Pisa
    and drop a ping pong ball and a snooker ball simultaneously!

  7. quote='Zog The Undeniable'Sniper8052 said:

    Free Fall and Air Resistance


    <snipped>

    It would have been simpler to go to the top of the Leaning Tower of Pisa
    and drop a ping pong ball and a snooker ball simultaneously![/QUOTE]

    I would love to, buy us a ticket would you, please, pretty please ..... 🙂 🙂 🙂

  8. Sniper8052 said:

    Zog The Undeniable Wrote:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    It would have been simpler to go to the top of the Leaning Tower of
    Pisa
    and drop a ping pong ball and a snooker ball simultaneously!

    I would love to, buy us a ticket would you, please, pretty please .....
    🙂 🙂 🙂


    Pah. Get on your bike ;-)

  9. Sniper8052 <[email hidden]>typed

    Quoted message said:
    Zog The Undeniable said:
    Sniper8052 said:

    Free Fall and Air Resistance


    <snipped>

    It would have been simpler to go to the top of the Leaning Tower of
    Pisa
    and drop a ping pong ball and a snooker ball simultaneously!

    Quoted message said:

    I would love to, buy us a ticket would you, please, pretty please .....
    🙂 🙂 🙂

    You don't need to go to Pisa.

    Hold a piece of paper above your head in one hand.
    Hold a pen in the other hand at the same height.
    Drop them together.

    --
    Helen D. Vecht: [email hidden]
    Edgware.

  10. James Annan [email hidden] opined the following...

    Quoted message said:
    chris French said:

    and the point of the physics lesson was..?

    I think he was hoping to maintain some sort of intellectual high ground
    while simultaneously admitting that he had got it all wrong!

    Other than commiting Seppuku, what you have had Sniper do? A knife in
    the back when someone is bent over apologising doesn't make you look too
    good!

    Jon

  11. Sniper8052 said:


    Free Fall and Air Resistance

    All objects (regardless of their mass) free-fall with the same
    acceleration 10 m/s2 rounded up.

    It's nothing to do with Sniper or his opinions, since it's apparently
    a quote from somewhere, but it does irritate me when something sets
    out educate on a particular topic, and as the opening predicate, says
    just the sort of thing it's trying to educate against.

    _Initially_ accelerate. The article is about air resistance, but they
    start with a statement that neglects air resistance. Dumb.

    Quoted message said:

    Why do objects which encounter air resistance ultimately reach a
    terminal velocity?

    The whole article reads as though the two items start their fall,
    accelarting at a steady g until they reach terminal velocity, then
    suddenly and miraculously stop accelerating.

    Quoted message said:

    at this instant in time, the net force is 0 Newtons and the object
    stops accelerating. The object is said to have "reached a terminal
    velocity."

    See? Dumb dumb dumb.

    regards, Ian SMith
    --
    |\ /| no .sig
    |o o|
    |/ \|

  12. "Helen Deborah Vecht" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Sniper8052 <[email hidden]>typed

    Quoted message said:
    Zog The Undeniable said:

    Sniper8052 wrote:

    > Free Fall and Air Resistance
    >
    <snipped>

    It would have been simpler to go to the top of the Leaning Tower of
    Pisa
    and drop a ping pong ball and a snooker ball simultaneously!

    Quoted message said:

    I would love to, buy us a ticket would you, please, pretty please .....
    🙂 🙂 🙂

    You don't need to go to Pisa.

    Hold a piece of paper above your head in one hand.
    Hold a pen in the other hand at the same height.
    Drop them together.

    Did that, they are both now balanced on my head. What do I do next?

    --
    Tumbleweed

    email replies not necessary but to contact use;
    tumbleweednews at hotmail dot com.

  13. quote='Zog The Undeniable'Sniper8052 said:

    Free Fall and Air Resistance


    <snipped>

    It would have been simpler to go to the top of the Leaning Tower of Pisa
    and drop a ping pong ball and a snooker ball simultaneously![/QUOTE]
    i bet it would be more fun to take guest and sniper to the top of pisa and drop them both from the top and see who bounces the furthest after that sudden stop, also to see how much real surface area they consist of! 🙂😄 😉

  14. In message <[email hidden]>, James Annan
    <[email hidden]> writes

    Quoted message said:
    chris French said:

    and the point of the physics lesson was..?

    I think he was hoping to maintain some sort of intellectual high ground
    while simultaneously admitting that he had got it all wrong!

    Got what wrong though? If referring to another thread (in which case
    that would be the best place for the reply), then it would help to say
    so 'cos I haven't a clue why he is going on about it.

    why am I not surprised the post originated on 'Cycling Forums'
    --
    Chris French, Leeds

  15. chris French [email hidden] opined the following...

    Quoted message said:

    why am I not surprised the post originated on 'Cycling Forums'

    'tis a good point. Sniper: You posted recently using a newsreader of
    some variety and not from Cycling Forums. Why stop?

    Jon

  16. "Tumbleweed" <[email hidden]> wrote

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Hold a piece of paper above your head in one hand.
    Hold a pen in the other hand at the same height.
    Drop them together.

    Did that, they are both now balanced on my head. What do I do next?

    Seal up all your doors and windows, pump all the air out of your house and
    repeat, noting whether or not you explode in the process.

  17. Quoted message said:

    'tis a good point. Sniper: You posted recently using a newsreader of
    some variety and not from Cycling Forums. Why stop?

    Jon

    I went to Google but wasat a loss to find the posts which I could see
    on the forum were not there! So I posted back from the forum. How do
    you get around the three - nine hour delay?
    Sniper8052

  18. "AndyP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    "Tumbleweed" <[email hidden]> wrote

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Hold a piece of paper above your head in one hand.
    Hold a pen in the other hand at the same height.
    Drop them together.

    Did that, they are both now balanced on my head. What do I do next?

    Seal up all your doors and windows, pump all the air out of your house and
    repeat, noting whether or not you explode in the process.

    OK, we tried that as per your instructions but the building imploded
    instead.

    http://www.dursleyglos.plus.com/dursleyglos/html/dursley/demolition/demolition_police_station.htm

    The lads at the station will be coming round to have a word with you.

    --
    Tumbleweed

    email replies not necessary but to contact use;
    tumbleweednews at hotmail dot com

  19. On Sun, 3 Oct 2004 14:29:45 +0100, "Tumbleweed"
    <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    <[email hidden]>:

    Quoted message said:

    Did that, they are both now balanced on my head. What do I do next?

    Silly, twisted boy! :-D

    Guy
    --
    May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
    http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

    88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University

  20. On 3 Oct 2004 11:23:59 -0700, [email hidden] (Sniper8052)

    wrote in message : said:

    I went to Google but wasat a loss to find the posts which I could see
    on the forum were not there! So I posted back from the forum. How do
    you get around the three - nine hour delay?

    http://groups-beta.google.com/?sourceid=ghpp

    Guy
    --
    May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
    http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

    88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University

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