humble Lance Armstrong...?

C.J.Patten said:

I've been reading some comments around here suggesting Lance isn't the most
humble guy.
I don't know him personally but in watching the post stage interview today,
he really didn't come off that way.

He was asked a question along the lines of "does it give you an adrenaline
rush when you hear over team radio you're knocking out heavy hitters like
... <insert some world class rider names here>"

Answered along the lines of 'you have to be careful - you've got 3 or 4 guys
riding with you and those other riders aren't pancakes...' obviously
demonstrating a respect for the competition.

What on Earth gives anyone the impression Lance is anything but a gentleman?

Not really expecting an answer to this... it's not a troll... but it brings
to mind a lot of people I've heard in the past put down successful people
for no other reason than they *are* successful. "There's a difference
between confidence and arrogance" and Lance doesn't strike me as arrogant.

:?

As Mart Smeets so aptly noted: "[Lance,] you're the nicest asshold I
ever met!"

jj

Quoted message said:

He's come a long way, baby. He's been well coached, well prepped, and
well 'handled.' He has, relatively, quite the polished and diplomatic
presentation these days.

If you read his book(s), listen to the stories consistently told about
him from days gone by, or even watch early LA interviews, he was quite
the cocky lad. Perhaps deservedly so (??), given his sheer talent and
ability, but he rubbed more than a few people the wrong way back then.

It's also important to remember: we don't know these people at all.
We know of them only what The Machine wants us to know.

You want to see some purity? Go back and watch the Dave Zabriskie
interviews--both upon winning the MJ, and upon dropping from the TdF.
IMO, that was about as unrehearsed, unscripted, and untainted as it
gets.

C.J.Patten said:

I've been reading some comments around here suggesting Lance isn't
the most humble guy.
I don't know him personally but in watching the post stage interview
today, he really didn't come off that way.

He was asked a question along the lines of "does it give you an
adrenaline rush when you hear over team radio you're knocking out
heavy hitters like ... <insert some world class rider names here>"

Answered along the lines of 'you have to be careful - you've got 3 or
4 guys riding with you and those other riders aren't pancakes...'
obviously demonstrating a respect for the competition.

What on Earth gives anyone the impression Lance is anything but a
gentleman?
Not really expecting an answer to this... it's not a troll... but it
brings to mind a lot of people I've heard in the past put down
successful people for no other reason than they *are* successful.
"There's a difference between confidence and arrogance" and Lance
doesn't strike me as arrogant.
:?

I've no doubt than LA can be an arrogant jerk at times, but I've also seen
him as humble, respectful, patient, aggressive, powerful, angry, funny,
proud...and just plain STRONG. IOW, it's not easy or fair to pigeon-hole
someone based on a 5-second video clip or a silly outburst four years ago.

Now /Barry Bonds/ on the other hand...

Bill S.

"Neil Brooks" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

He's come a long way, baby. He's been well coached, well prepped, and
well 'handled.' He has, relatively, quite the polished and diplomatic
presentation these days.

Sure, I'll buy that. Could be a component of personal growth involved in
that too.
I've had employees that were NEVER able to talk to the media because they
just didn't give a damn enough to tow the party line.

Quoted message said:

If you read his book(s), listen to the stories consistently told about
him from days gone by, or even watch early LA interviews, he was quite
the cocky lad. Perhaps deservedly so (??), given his sheer talent and
ability, but he rubbed more than a few people the wrong way back then.

Perhaps part of my perception is based on having not seen "the old Lance."
This tour is pretty much my first exposure as far as seeing interviews and
his performance.

I'll look up some of Lance's older media/books etc to get a balanced view.

*** *** ***

I had an ex-mentor/boss who received a lot of criticism from outside sources
for his attitude.
I stuck with him for 4 years. Instead of being critical, I listened to what
he had to say and tested against what I knew was truth.

At the end of those 4 years, he wasn't my boss, he'd become a friend and
business partner and someone who, while admitting when he was wrong, rarely
was.

Among many big lessons learned from him - people who should spend more time
minding their own stores instead of telling everyone else how to mind theirs
are the first to be critical of others successes.

I don't know if that's the case with Lance but I err to that side regarding
his pundits.

Quoted message said:

It's also important to remember: we don't know these people at all.
We know of them only what The Machine wants us to know.

Having worked in marketing, I understand that influence. As above with the
employee, there are just some people who you have to keep away from cameras
and mics. Lance seems safe on them now.

Quoted message said:

You want to see some purity? Go back and watch the Dave Zabriskie
interviews--both upon winning the MJ, and upon dropping from the TdF.
IMO, that was about as unrehearsed, unscripted, and untainted as it
gets.

I did see the first one (sleeps in the buff... LOL!) but not the other one.
Sad to see he's been dropped but he'll be back.
He came off as sort of painfull shy in the first one... no?

C.J.Patten said:

I had an ex-mentor/boss who received a lot of criticism from outside sources
for his attitude.
I stuck with him for 4 years. Instead of being critical, I listened to what
he had to say and tested against what I knew was truth.

At the end of those 4 years, he wasn't my boss, he'd become a friend and
business partner and someone who, while admitting when he was wrong, rarely
was.

How /did/ you like working for Jobst Brandt <grin>

(hope you've been around r.b.* long enough to know to whom I'm
referring ;-)

Re: the Zabriskie interviews said:

I did see the first one (sleeps in the buff... LOL!) but not the other one.
Sad to see he's been dropped but he'll be back.
He came off as sort of painfull shy in the first one... no?

Oh, yeah. The antithesis of cockiness. A demure, fresh-faced kid
from Utah.

"Bill Sornson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I've no doubt than LA can be an arrogant jerk at times, but I've also seen
him as humble, respectful, patient, aggressive, powerful, angry, funny,

Too true. And don't we all have those traits at times!

Quoted message said:

proud...and just plain STRONG. IOW, it's not easy or fair to pigeon-hole
someone based on a 5-second video clip or a silly outburst four years ago.

Also true.

I'd add that many people we respect are the ones who challenge us the most.

Weak people don't take well to this. People with strength of character find
the best in others - even when they're at their worst - and use it to enrich
their own lives.

Quoted message said:

Now /Barry Bonds/ on the other hand...

Ya' know, the sabre licking didn't come off well but ever since, I've found
his 'tour commentary lucid and relevant.
He seems to know what he's talking about. I gather he was on the 'tour once
and is a personal friend of Lance?

*shrugs*

C.J.Patten said:

"Bill Sornson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I've no doubt than LA can be an arrogant jerk at times, but I've also seen
him as humble, respectful, patient, aggressive, powerful, angry, funny,

Too true. And don't we all have those traits at times!

Quoted message said:

proud...and just plain STRONG. IOW, it's not easy or fair to pigeon-hole
someone based on a 5-second video clip or a silly outburst four years ago.

Also true.

I'd add that many people we respect are the ones who challenge us the most.

Weak people don't take well to this. People with strength of character find
the best in others - even when they're at their worst - and use it to enrich
their own lives.

Quoted message said:

Now /Barry Bonds/ on the other hand...

Ya' know, the sabre licking didn't come off well but ever since, I've found
his 'tour commentary lucid and relevant.
He seems to know what he's talking about. I gather he was on the 'tour once
and is a personal friend of Lance?

*shrugs*

That would be Bob Roll. Barry Bonds is a baseball dude.

Quoted message said:

That would be Bob Roll. Barry Bonds is a baseball dude.

Brain fart. Whoops. ;p

Tue, 12 Jul 2005 11:51:11 -0400, <[email hidden]>,

C.J.Patten said:

I've been reading some comments around here suggesting Lance isn't the most
humble guy.
I don't know him personally but in watching the post stage interview today,
he really didn't come off that way.

Though understated, it is fair to say that Lance is no Wayne Gretzky.
Despite the polishing of his paid handlers, Mr. Armstrong never will
match "The Great One" when it comes to real class.
--
zk

Neil said:

He's come a long way, baby. He's been well coached, well prepped, and
well 'handled.' He has, relatively, quite the polished and diplomatic
presentation these days. ...

Maybe Rock Star GF helped in that regard. IIRC part of her appeal is:
she's already famous, didn't have to learn how to deal with it by being
thrown into the deep end (e.g. Kristen, who didn't like being the
Princess of Wheels).

--Karen M.
(that's my Red Hat Society moniker!)

Quoted message said:

Neil said:

He's come a long way, baby. He's been well coached, well prepped, and
well 'handled.' He has, relatively, quite the polished and diplomatic
presentation these days. ...

Maybe Rock Star GF helped in that regard. IIRC part of her appeal is:
she's already famous, didn't have to learn how to deal with it by being
thrown into the deep end (e.g. Kristen, who didn't like being the
Princess of Wheels).

My money is on his sponsors at Nike.

Those guys are the absolute masters at public relations.

Chris Neary
[email hidden]

"Science, freedom, beauty, adventure: what more could
you ask of life? Bicycling combined all the elements I
loved" - Adapted from a quotation by Charles Lindbergh

C.J.Patten said:

I've been reading some comments around here suggesting Lance isn't the most
humble guy.

Armstrong has admitted to a certain degree of cockiness. Earlier in his
career he was often described as "brash" and "arrogant". So what? Like
all professional athletes, he is judged by who he beats and how badly.
Given that, it's no surprise that very few world class athletes are
noted for their modesty.
When a world class athlete *doesn't* appear arrogant or cocky there's a
tendency in the media to canonize them as saints when actually they are
just behaving the way most people do.
When he was still in the NBA some sportscaster criticized Charles
Barkley for something he did off-court saying, "You are a role model
for kids." Barkley's reply got him some more bad press but I thought it
was great. To paraphrase his reply-
"I'm not a role model. I'm a basketball player. If kids want a role
model they should look to their parents, teachers, and the other adults
they see everyday, not someone they see playing a sport on TV."

Regards,
Bob Hunt

Bob said:

When he was still in the NBA some sportscaster criticized Charles
Barkley for something he did off-court saying, "You are a role model
for kids." Barkley's reply got him some more bad press but I thought it
was great. To paraphrase his reply-
"I'm not a role model. I'm a basketball player. If kids want a role
model they should look to their parents, teachers, and the other adults
they see everyday, not someone they see playing a sport on TV."

I've never been a fan of Charles Barkley, but I remember hearing about
that when he said it. Too bad more people don't have that attitude about
sports figures.

--
Dane Jackson - z u v e m b i @ u n i x b i g o t s . o r g
"I figure if I kill the first one, the word will get out."
- Charles Barkley on handling his 12-year-old daughter's future boyfriends.

Personally, I give all the credit to LA himself. The dude is smart as
well as strong. He was REAL cocky when younger - to the point of
arrogance, but then, he was also strong from an early age. Athletic
arrogance - real common in high school football and b-ball players.
FWIW, my humble opinion is that LA's case of arrogance is not
particularly bad when you look around at a lot of other folks.

And I think he has matured a lot since his younger days. A whole lot.