Hub and Chainwheel

lemmy said:

I'm looking to buy new bike for town use around west London with
forays along towpaths and around Richmond Park for leisure and
exercise.

I've been out of the country for a while and the bike scene has
changed, with a bewildering choice available now. I am looking for a
bike with little maintenance needed.

I fancy a Giant Expression N7 (http://www.giant-bicycles.com/en-GB/
bikes/lifestyle/1427/28883/)but I understand the Nexus 7 hub gears
don't cover a wide range compared to that available with a derailleur.
Is there any reason I couldn't get a double chainwheel fitted?

Basic problem would be tensioning the chain for the different sized
chainrings - the rear derailer does this for normal derailer setups, a
front derailer doesn't have this capability. You could get a Schlumpf
mountain drive - an epicyclic (like a hub gear) that fits into the
bottom bracket, but they are not cheap - about the same price as your
Giant.

Then off course there's the Rohloff which gives you a great range at
about IIRC more than twice the price of the bike...

Are you sure you need the bigger range - it's nice, but I think you'd
manage most hills in your area without it.

May be others can suggest a way round the tensioning problem.

Quoted message said:

Make a good name for a cyclist's pub, I think, this subject header.

Yes :-)

Rob

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

lemmy said:

I'm looking to buy new bike for town use around west London with
forays along towpaths and around Richmond Park for leisure and
exercise.

I've been out of the country for a while and the bike scene has
changed, with a bewildering choice available now. I am looking for a
bike with little maintenance needed.

I fancy a Giant Expression N7 (http://www.giant-bicycles.com/en-GB/
bikes/lifestyle/1427/28883/)but I understand the Nexus 7 hub gears
don't cover a wide range compared to that available with a derailleur.
Is there any reason I couldn't get a double chainwheel fitted?

Basic problem would be tensioning the chain for the different sized
chainrings - the rear derailer does this for normal derailer setups, a
front derailer doesn't have this capability. You could get a Schlumpf
mountain drive - an epicyclic (like a hub gear) that fits into the
bottom bracket, but they are not cheap - about the same price as your
Giant.

Then off course there's the Rohloff which gives you a great range at
about IIRC more than twice the price of the bike...

Are you sure you need the bigger range - it's nice, but I think you'd
manage most hills in your area without it.

May be others can suggest a way round the tensioning problem.

Quoted message said:

Make a good name for a cyclist's pub, I think, this subject header.

Yes :-)

Rob

I have a Ridgeback Nemesis with an 8 speed Nexus hub. Use it in South
Somerset which is reasonable hilly (but isn't the Lake District:-)) I used
to live in Chiswick and I reckon I'd get up to Richmond Park from Sheen or
Richmond town centre on the Nemesis - might not make it from the Kingston
Road up to Star and Garter!

lemmy said:

I'm looking to buy new bike for town use around west London with
forays along towpaths and around Richmond Park for leisure and
exercise.

I've been out of the country for a while and the bike scene has
changed, with a bewildering choice available now. I am looking for a
bike with little maintenance needed.

I fancy a Giant Expression N7 (http://www.giant-bicycles.com/en-GB/
bikes/lifestyle/1427/28883/)but I understand the Nexus 7 hub gears
don't cover a wide range compared to that available with a derailleur.
Is there any reason I couldn't get a double chainwheel fitted?

Make a good name for a cyclist's pub, I think, this subject header.

would be a good name for a pub!

i would of thought that the hub gears would get up the hills in the
area, as very few are steep.

roger

Quoting lemmy <[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

I fancy a Giant Expression N7 (http://www.giant-bicycles.com/en-GB/
bikes/lifestyle/1427/28883/)but I understand the Nexus 7 hub gears
don't cover a wide range compared to that available with a derailleur.
Is there any reason I couldn't get a double chainwheel fitted?

You'd need a chain tensioner (the whole thing would be "fascinating
hobbyist project", not "easy assembly from parts off the shelf"😉, and
the spacing on a 7-speed hub probably won't work nicely with a double.
--
David Damerell <[email hidden]> flcl?
Today is Teleute, August.

Am Fri, 17 Aug 2007 07:23:23 -0700 schrieb [email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

lemmy said:

I'm looking to buy new bike for town use around west London with
forays along towpaths and around Richmond Park for leisure and
exercise.

I've been out of the country for a while and the bike scene has
changed, with a bewildering choice available now. I am looking for a
bike with little maintenance needed.

I fancy a Giant Expression N7 (http://www.giant-bicycles.com/en-GB/
bikes/lifestyle/1427/28883/)but I understand the Nexus 7 hub gears
don't cover a wide range compared to that available with a derailleur.
Is there any reason I couldn't get a double chainwheel fitted?

Basic problem would be tensioning the chain for the different sized
chainrings - the rear derailer does this for normal derailer setups, a
front derailer doesn't have this capability.

....

Quoted message said:

May be others can suggest a way round the tensioning problem.

The new Alfine group of Shimano, which contains an 8-gear hub, also
contains this chain tensioner. There are a number of bikes available both
based on the Nexave and the Alfine hub gear. Just google for
Shimano Nexus 2x8
http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=shimano+nexus+2x8&btnG=Google+Search&meta=
or
Shimano Alfine 2x8
http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=shimano+alfine+2x8&btnG=Search&meta=

As for the original posters search for a decent bike with hub gears. Have a
look at the bikes available in this London-based shop:
http://www.bikefix.co.uk/ A click on Classic and then on T100 bring you to
a high-quality and low-maintenance bike with 8-gear hub. Plus it comes with
a hub dynamo and light system as well. The range of such a hub gear is IMHO
more than sufficient for the London terrain. They also have some models
available (S300) with the SRAM Dual Drive, a combination of hub and
derailleur gears, offering a very wide gear range.

Andreas

lemmy said:

I'm looking to buy new bike for town use around west London with
forays along towpaths and around Richmond Park for leisure and
exercise.

I've been out of the country for a while and the bike scene has
changed, with a bewildering choice available now. I am looking for a
bike with little maintenance needed.

I fancy a Giant Expression N7 (http://www.giant-bicycles.com/en-GB/
bikes/lifestyle/1427/28883/)but I understand the Nexus 7 hub gears
don't cover a wide range compared to that available with a derailleur.
Is there any reason I couldn't get a double chainwheel fitted?

Make a good name for a cyclist's pub, I think, this subject header.

While the range might be (slightly) limited, a small chainwheel plus a 7
speed Nexus will get you up anything a derailleur equipped bike will. I am
a trundly (and proud of it) so I seldom pedal downhill as I need the rest to
recover from the last climb, so I have never used the top couple of gears on
any of my bikes except the bike with a hub gear.

As for adding a double, I top out at 20mph with my SA 7 speed, do you need
to go any faster?

The ease of shifting, especially when I've had to stop suddenly and I'm left
in top gear and the easy maintenance makes hub gears a winner for me. I
might even convert one of my Mercians to a Nexus 8 next time I rebuild.

Tom

--
Return address is dead. Real address is at
http://www.happy-penguin.info/address.jpg

Graham Harrison said:

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

lemmy said:

I'm looking to buy new bike for town use around west London with
forays along towpaths and around Richmond Park for leisure and
exercise.

I've been out of the country for a while and the bike scene has
changed, with a bewildering choice available now. I am looking for a
bike with little maintenance needed.

I fancy a Giant Expression N7 (http://www.giant-bicycles.com/en-GB/
bikes/lifestyle/1427/28883/)but I understand the Nexus 7 hub gears
don't cover a wide range compared to that available with a derailleur.
Is there any reason I couldn't get a double chainwheel fitted?

Basic problem would be tensioning the chain for the different sized
chainrings - the rear derailer does this for normal derailer setups, a
front derailer doesn't have this capability. You could get a Schlumpf
mountain drive - an epicyclic (like a hub gear) that fits into the
bottom bracket, but they are not cheap - about the same price as your
Giant.

Then off course there's the Rohloff which gives you a great range at
about IIRC more than twice the price of the bike...

Are you sure you need the bigger range - it's nice, but I think you'd
manage most hills in your area without it.

May be others can suggest a way round the tensioning problem.

Quoted message said:

Make a good name for a cyclist's pub, I think, this subject header.

Yes :-)

Rob

I have a Ridgeback Nemesis with an 8 speed Nexus hub. Use it in South
Somerset which is reasonable hilly (but isn't the Lake District:-)) I used
to live in Chiswick and I reckon I'd get up to Richmond Park from Sheen or
Richmond town centre on the Nemesis - might not make it from the Kingston
Road up to Star and Garter!

probably would, the hill is steep for the area but not a granny ring
hill.

roger
--
www.rogermerriman.com

In message <[email hidden]>, David Damerell
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Quoting lemmy <[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

I fancy a Giant Expression N7 (http://www.giant-bicycles.com/en-GB/
bikes/lifestyle/1427/28883/)but I understand the Nexus 7 hub gears
don't cover a wide range compared to that available with a derailleur.
Is there any reason I couldn't get a double chainwheel fitted?

You'd need a chain tensioner (the whole thing would be "fascinating
hobbyist project", not "easy assembly from parts off the shelf"😉, and
the spacing on a 7-speed hub probably won't work nicely with a double.

I used to use an old rear derauillier as a tensioner when I had a 7
speed hub/twin chain ring combo. It worked fine, and gave me some lower
gears for steep Yorkshire hills. I had pretty much as big a jump in
chainweel sizes as I could manage IIRC

Though this does tend to put the hub out of spec. but I never had a
problem

But I don't think that's it'd be necessary for London, I used a standard
single chain wheel setup there which was fine.

for max no maintenance I'd go for hub brakes as well. Not such absolute
stopping power as Well set up V brakes maybe, but always reliable.
--
Chris French

Am Fri, 17 Aug 2007 16:26:03 +0100 schrieb Andreas Schulze-Bäing:

Quoted message said:

The new Alfine group of Shimano, which contains an 8-gear hub, also
contains this chain tensioner.

Oops, I forgot the link - it's this one:
<http://cycle.shimano-eu.com/media/techdocs/content/cycle/SI/ALfine/CT-S500/50D0A-CT-S500-EN_v1_m56577569830599884.pdf>

Andreas

"Roger Merriman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Graham Harrison said:

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On 17 Aug, 15:01, lemmy <[email hidden]> wrote:
> I'm looking to buy new bike for town use around west London with
> forays along towpaths and around Richmond Park for leisure and
> exercise.
>
> I've been out of the country for a while and the bike scene has
> changed, with a bewildering choice available now. I am looking for a
> bike with little maintenance needed.
>
> I fancy a Giant Expression N7 (http://www.giant-bicycles.com/en-GB/
> bikes/lifestyle/1427/28883/)but I understand the Nexus 7 hub gears
> don't cover a wide range compared to that available with a derailleur.
> Is there any reason I couldn't get a double chainwheel fitted?

Basic problem would be tensioning the chain for the different sized
chainrings - the rear derailer does this for normal derailer setups, a
front derailer doesn't have this capability. You could get a Schlumpf
mountain drive - an epicyclic (like a hub gear) that fits into the
bottom bracket, but they are not cheap - about the same price as your
Giant.

Then off course there's the Rohloff which gives you a great range at
about IIRC more than twice the price of the bike...

Are you sure you need the bigger range - it's nice, but I think you'd
manage most hills in your area without it.

May be others can suggest a way round the tensioning problem.

> Make a good name for a cyclist's pub, I think, this subject header.

Yes :-)

Rob

I have a Ridgeback Nemesis with an 8 speed Nexus hub. Use it in South
Somerset which is reasonable hilly (but isn't the Lake District:-)) I
used
to live in Chiswick and I reckon I'd get up to Richmond Park from Sheen
or
Richmond town centre on the Nemesis - might not make it from the Kingston
Road up to Star and Garter!

probably would, the hill is steep for the area but not a granny ring
hill.

roger
--
www.rogermerriman.com

You don't know how fit I am (not) :-).

Quoted message said:

lemmy said:

I'm looking to buy new bike for town use around west London with
forays along towpaths and around Richmond Park for leisure and
exercise.

I've been out of the country for a while and the bike scene has
changed, with a bewildering choice available now. I am looking for a
bike with little maintenance needed.

I fancy a Giant Expression N7 (http://www.giant-bicycles.com/en-GB/
bikes/lifestyle/1427/28883/)but I understand the Nexus 7 hub gears
don't cover a wide range compared to that available with a derailleur.
Is there any reason I couldn't get a double chainwheel fitted?

Basic problem would be tensioning the chain for the different sized
chainrings - the rear derailer does this for normal derailer setups, a
front derailer doesn't have this capability.

A normal long cage would work I guess.

Quoted message said:

You could get a Schlumpf
mountain drive - an epicyclic (like a hub gear) that fits into the
bottom bracket, but they are not cheap - about the same price as your
Giant.

Sledgehammer on a walnut?

Quoted message said:

Then off course there's the Rohloff which gives you a great range at
about IIRC more than twice the price of the bike...

HE on said walnut.

Quoted message said:

Are you sure you need the bigger range - it's nice, but I think you'd
manage most hills in your area without it.

I think the man speaks the truth!

Quoted message said:

May be others can suggest a way round the tensioning problem.

In message <[email hidden]>

Tosspot said:

Quoted message said:

Are you sure you need the bigger range - it's nice, but I think you'd
manage most hills in your area without it.

Used to get up Compass Hill (Petersham Rd to Hill Rise) in High on a 3
speed SA / AW hub driven Hercules, and up Nightingale Lane (petersham
Rd to Richmond Hill) probably in Low. But I was lighter, younger and
fitter 55 years or so ago.

can still crest Star and Garter in bottom on the Brompton.

--
Charles
Brompton P-type T6 in Motspur Park

This is all interesting stuff, thanks. The consensus seems to be that
around here I won't need any gearing other than the standard so I
think I'll go with that. The Giant looked good to me but I',m going to
take a look at some of the other things suggested.

in message <[email hidden]>, lemmy

(') said:

I'm looking to buy new bike for town use around west London with
forays along towpaths and around Richmond Park for leisure and
exercise.

I've been out of the country for a while and the bike scene has
changed, with a bewildering choice available now. I am looking for a
bike with little maintenance needed.

I fancy a Giant Expression N7 (http://www.giant-bicycles.com/en-GB/
bikes/lifestyle/1427/28883/)but I understand the Nexus 7 hub gears
don't cover a wide range compared to that available with a derailleur.

That's sort-of false. They don't have as wide a range as the derailleur
systems used by mountain bikes, for the simple and obvious reason that
they aren't designed for mountain bike terrain. It has a much wider range
than derailleur systems typically used on road bikes (3.58/1 as compared
to 2.55/1).

Quoted message said:

Is there any reason I couldn't get a double chainwheel fitted?

Yes, you'd get rid of all the low maintenance benefits of a hub gear, to no
advantage because you wouldn't ever need the extra gears.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; An enamorata is for life, not just for weekends.

in message <[email hidden]>, Andreas

Schulze-Bäing (') said:

Am Fri, 17 Aug 2007 07:23:23 -0700 schrieb [email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

lemmy said:

I'm looking to buy new bike for town use around west London with
forays along towpaths and around Richmond Park for leisure and
exercise.

I've been out of the country for a while and the bike scene has
changed, with a bewildering choice available now. I am looking for a
bike with little maintenance needed.

I fancy a Giant Expression N7 (http://www.giant-bicycles.com/en-GB/
bikes/lifestyle/1427/28883/)but I understand the Nexus 7 hub gears
don't cover a wide range compared to that available with a derailleur.
Is there any reason I couldn't get a double chainwheel fitted?

Basic problem would be tensioning the chain for the different sized
chainrings - the rear derailer does this for normal derailer setups, a
front derailer doesn't have this capability.

...

Quoted message said:

May be others can suggest a way round the tensioning problem.

The new Alfine group of Shimano, which contains an 8-gear hub, also
contains this chain tensioner. There are a number of bikes available both
based on the Nexave and the Alfine hub gear. Just google for
Shimano Nexus 2x8

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=shimano+nexus+2x8&btnG=Google+Search&meta=

Quoted message said:

or
Shimano Alfine 2x8

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=shimano+alfine+2x8&btnG=Search&meta=

Which means that you have all the losses of an epicyclic plus almost all
the losses of a derailleur (because overwhelmingly most of the losses of a
derailleur come from the jockey cage); and you have all the maintenance of
both systems and a vulnerable chain.

That truly is the worst of both worlds.

A Nexus 7 with a 42 tooth chainwheel and 17 tooth sprocket on a 700Cx32
driven wheel gives you a range of ratios from 42.2" to 103.1". A
conventional out-of-the-box road double derailleur setup with a 50-34
compact chainset and a conventional ten speed 12-23 cassette gives 42.3"
to 112.5". So the original premise that a Nexus offers a significantly
more restricted range of gears than a typical road derailleur setup is
just false.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; 'I think we should trust our president in every decision
;; that he makes and we should just support that'
;; Britney Spears of George W Bush, CNN 04:09:03

lemmy said:

This is all interesting stuff, thanks. The consensus seems to be that
around here I won't need any gearing other than the standard so I
think I'll go with that. The Giant looked good to me but I',m going to
take a look at some of the other things suggested.

I've just gone through the process of buying a low-maintenance
bike, for work use. I was certain I wanted hub gears; everything
else was up for grabs. At around the £400 mark, Ridgeback, Giant,
Specialised all have something that would probably have suited.

As Andreas says, there's also the T100 from Bikefix, and finally
there's the Carrera Subway 8 from Halfords. I went for the Carrera
because (i) it was the cheapest, (ii) it comes with the Premium
version of the Nexus-8 hub (better bearings), and (iii) it has
braze-ons for a front rack. It also has hub brakes which fitted
my low-maintenance ideas.

Price was an issue because I wanted to add things like a decent
saddle and Tubus racks - otherwise I might have gone for the
Bikefix offering.

I'm finding it great so far: I'm carrying probably 30kg of tools and
supplies around (working as a mobile handyman), and it's very
stable with that sort of load.

I'm in SE London and the gearing is low enough to get me up
Blackheath Hill, Shooters Hill and the like without any real
problems. I might put a bigger rear sprocket on just to drop
the gears a little and give a bit more flexibility at the bottom end,
because of the loads, but I don't need to.

Regards

John

Graham Harrison said:

"Roger Merriman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Graham Harrison <[email hidden]> wrote:

snips

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I have a Ridgeback Nemesis with an 8 speed Nexus hub. Use it in South
Somerset which is reasonable hilly (but isn't the Lake District:-)) I
used
to live in Chiswick and I reckon I'd get up to Richmond Park from Sheen
or
Richmond town centre on the Nemesis - might not make it from the Kingston
Road up to Star and Garter!

Quoted message said:

probably would, the hill is steep for the area but not a granny ring
hill.

Quoted message said:

roger
--
www.rogermerriman.com

You don't know how fit I am (not) :-).

heh fair enought!

roger

John Sabine said:

I'm finding it great so far: I'm carrying probably 30kg of tools and
supplies around (working as a mobile handyman), and it's very
stable with that sort of load.

I'd definitely recommend keeping a close eye on the back wheel: mine
buckled and threw a load of spokes. But I'm not the lightest of people.
I've now had it rebuilt with a heavy-duty Mavic rim.

The frame isn't the lightest, but it definitely gets the job done.

R

--
I think [cycling] has done more to emancipate women than anything else
in the world. [...] I stand and rejoice every time I see a woman ride by
on a wheel... the picture of free, untrammeled womanhood.
-- Susan B. Anthony

In article <[email hidden]>, Tosspot
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Basic problem would be tensioning the chain for the different sized
chainrings - the rear derailer does this for normal derailer setups, a
front derailer doesn't have this capability.

A normal long cage would work I guess.

A short cage would work because it wouldn't have to deal with different
rear sprocket sizes. A nice variation might be to have a double
sprocket at the rear (quite easy I think with a Sturmey Archer, not sure
about other hubs) along with a double chainset so that the chainline is
preserved.