HR up / wattage down

Well the obvious question would be (since you mention about wattage), what does your PMC looks like at the moment?

Now to pre anwswer your question, yes sometimes for mysterious reasons athletes are getting feed back from their body that can be easily confused with signs of over training.

These can be simply due to
- a simple reaction resulting from high levels of over reaching
- Detraining effect (now relative to before break). A severe drop in CTL may have this sort of impact
- Fighting a bug (you may have no symptoms other than having less energy, needing to sleep much more etc
- Other reasons (winter effect, day to day life, work etc, reasons which I ignore)

But in your particular case, I think that these HR responses to exercise you're getting are more related to this 6week off bike break which had a (temporary) slight de-training effect. Everything should be back to normal in the next few days or weeks.

Over training syndrome often takes a while to develop. I would not look there first.

SolarEnergy said:

Well the obvious question would be (since you mention about wattage), what does your PMC looks like at the moment?

Now to pre anwswer your question, yes sometimes for mysterious reasons athletes are getting feed back from their body that can be easily confused with signs of over training.

These can be simply due to
- a simple reaction resulting from high levels of over reaching
- Detraining effect (now relative to before break). A severe drop in CTL may have this sort of impact
- Fighting a bug (you may have no symptoms other than having less energy, needing to sleep much more etc
- Other reasons (winter effect, day to day life, work etc, reasons which I ignore)

But in your particular case, I think that these HR responses to exercise you're getting are more related to this 6week off bike break which had a (temporary) slight de-training effect. Everything should be back to normal in the next few days or weeks.

Over training syndrome often takes a while to develop. I would not look there first.

I don't understand your question about the PMC. I know what it is, I just don't/can't download info from the meter. I mainly track average and max wattages for workouts as well as making sure I am working hard enough for intervals.
Right now I am in Base 3 (Friel training plan) and hav donw a few harder efforts but for example the Tempo rides that were done at the same intensity/wattage as in Base 2 are now bumping my heart rate up quite a bit...almost to my LTHR.

OK so in other words, you're not downloading that power data to a software such as wko+

Would your power meter equipment allow you to this?

The idea is that this allows you to better explain these sorts of situation (drastic change in training habit etc).

As important as knowing how hard you're currently training during this workout that you're currently doing, it's important to keep track of the cumulative effect these workouts have over time.

Do you use a power meter that allows for importing your workout files in a software? Worst case, you could manually input power data in wko+ and still be able to track longer term effect of your training.

brady01 said:

...Over the holidays, I ended up being off the bike for 6 days.... At identical wattages, my heart rate is easily 10-15 beats higher than it was before my break... .

Sounds like standard 'blocked up legs' which is very common following a big break away from training and the big reason most folks don't suggest too much rest before important events.

Stick with the regular training, back off a bit if you need to till things feel better and within a week or so things should be back to normal.

-Dave

Thanks for the tips guys. I was hoping this issue was just from a week of inactivity. I'll keep plugging away and see what happens this week.

Solar - No, I don't have a way of downloading my power peter readings. I have the kurtkinetic one made for use with a trainer. Is all I can afford at the moment. However, I could probably graph it out somehow...

At first it sounded like overheating during the trainer sessions, but if your heartrate is elevated even when you're not riding then it might be something else. You say this has been occurring for a couple weeks now?

brady01 said:

Solar - No, I don't have a way of downloading my power peter readings. I have the kurtkinetic one made for use with a trainer. Is all I can afford at the moment. However, I could probably graph it out somehow...

In other words, as soon as you hit the roads power data will no longer be available?

If so then I definitely agree with Dave's explanation. Everything will be back to normal in few days/weeks.

brady01 said:

As the title suggests, that is my problem lately. For the past couple weeks I have been struggling on the bike, which is on a trainer this time year due to below zero temps. That said, I believe that rules out any outside riding factors. I also don't think I'm overtrained, perhaps the opposite?

i relate to being stuck indoors. it isnt below zero or anything but way too cold for my warm weather sensibilities - so the trainer it is.

dont underestimate motivation in this area. i like the trainer, i love how focused the riding is - no bs/junk miles, no wasting time in traffic or lights or stops. plus i have zero distractions & darn near total control of my environment & every comfort/need (water/fan/music/yadda yadda) i could have is addressed. some people detest the trainer & so it follows they wont do as well or be as into it.

brady01 said:

Over the holidays, I ended up being off the bike for 6 days. However, my strength is taking time to come back. At identical wattages, my heart rate is easily 10-15 beats higher than it was before my break. Even my morning heart rate is elevated lately.

consistently elevated morning HR can often be a sign of overtraining - again we go back to motivation. do you look forward to riding the bike/training or do you dread it? how's your diet & recovery/sleep going? sorry if this sounds like i'm asking for personal details, but poor sleep and/or so-so diet for long enough do matter. and lets face it, given the holidays, hella people are/were eating way too much & have too much stress also.

brady01 said:

Does anyone else experience this? Will I get back to 'normal' eventually? Any help would be appreciated.

fyi - i have been off my bike for periods like yours (5-6 days no biking at all) & have had diff. experiences. in one case i set a 20 MMP pb on my first day back of riding.

here's the catch: in both cases of being off the bike for 4+ days, i was exercising very very hard while on a backpacking/mountaineering trip. i know it isn't the same - hiking/climbing vs biking - but it seemed to preserve more of my short term fitness. this probably varies, but for me this is what i have experienced - please dont take this as gospel or anything more than my half-baked n = 1 anecdote.

i bet you are back at your target wattages soon. the holidays get lots of things out of order for people, tons of stress, etc. getting back into the flow/routine will help lots. plus i would think of some goals for 2010 & maybe tinker with your workouts a bit for variety. finally, try easing back into it with some good SST rather than straight up L4 work. there's light years diff. for me (in PE terms) btwn doing 20-30 min at 95+% of FT vs. doing them at 90%.

best of luck 😉

SolarEnergy said:

In other words, as soon as you hit the roads power data will no longer be available?

If so then I definitely agree with Dave's explanation. Everything will be back to normal in few days/weeks.

Yeah, pretty much. No power meter once the snow melts. I think by now though I have decent a handle on my HR and PE at a given effort that I should be relatively okay until I can get a power meter.
Priority is on a lighter bike though...
Thanks for the help.

brady01 said:

Yeah, pretty much. No power meter once the snow melts. I think by now though I have decent a handle on my HR and PE at a given effort that I should be relatively okay until I can get a power meter.
Priority is on a lighter bike though...
Thanks for the help.

I understand very well. Fair enough.

Just keep in mind that one of the biggest value of this tool is to allow to keep track of your entire season.

But lighter bike is also important.

Enjoy!

DancenMacabre said:

i relate to being stuck indoors. it isnt below zero or anything but way too cold for my warm weather sensibilities - so the trainer it is.

dont underestimate motivation in this area. i like the trainer, i love how focused the riding is - no bs/junk miles, no wasting time in traffic or lights or stops. plus i have zero distractions & darn near total control of my environment & every comfort/need (water/fan/music/yadda yadda) i could have is addressed. some people detest the trainer & so it follows they wont do as well or be as into it.

consistently elevated morning HR can often be a sign of overtraining - again we go back to motivation. do you look forward to riding the bike/training or do you dread it? how's your diet & recovery/sleep going? sorry if this sounds like i'm asking for personal details, but poor sleep and/or so-so diet for long enough do matter. and lets face it, given the holidays, hella people are/were eating way too much & have too much stress also.

fyi - i have been off my bike for periods like yours (5-6 days no biking at all) & have had diff. experiences. in one case i set a 20 MMP pb on my first day back of riding.

here's the catch: in both cases of being off the bike for 4+ days, i was exercising very very hard while on a backpacking/mountaineering trip. i know it isn't the same - hiking/climbing vs biking - but it seemed to preserve more of my short term fitness. this probably varies, but for me this is what i have experienced - please dont take this as gospel or anything more than my half-baked n = 1 anecdote.

i bet you are back at your target wattages soon. the holidays get lots of things out of order for people, tons of stress, etc. getting back into the flow/routine will help lots. plus i would think of some goals for 2010 & maybe tinker with your workouts a bit for variety. finally, try easing back into it with some good SST rather than straight up L4 work. there's light years diff. for me (in PE terms) btwn doing 20-30 min at 95+% of FT vs. doing them at 90%.

best of luck 😉

Dancen,
I somehow missed your post earlier. Don't ask how... At any rate, I am like you-very psyched about riding the trainer. As I mentioned in another post, it is the only time I use a power meter. So, to do my intervals or various videos and to know exactly how hard I'm working is priceless. As you said, zero distractions and total control of the workout. None of those junk miles we end up riding in the warmer temps. Get on the trainer, suffer, rinse and repeat.

As far as being overtrained, I really don't think that's the case. I still look forward to riding, even at this time of year...mostly for the reasons listed above. The diet and sleep are fine too. I did sneak a couple of delicious cookies on Christmas Eve though...

Thanks again for the help and motivation.

Don’t stress yourself too much physically in the process of enhancing your performance. The amount of training that you undergo should also have a limit.

brady01 said:

As the title suggests, that is my problem lately. For the past couple weeks I have been struggling on the bike, which is on a trainer this time year due to below zero temps. That said, I believe that rules out any outside riding factors. I also don't think I'm overtrained, perhaps the opposite?
Over the holidays, I ended up being off the bike for 6 days. However, my strength is taking time to come back. At identical wattages, my heart rate is easily 10-15 beats higher than it was before my break. Even my morning heart rate is elevated lately.
Does anyone else experience this? Will I get back to 'normal' eventually? Any help would be appreciated.

If you're comparing your 'outside' wattage to that produced on the trainer then you wouldn't be the first to struggle to replicate the outdoor numbers, indoors. As for the heart rate - that could be something as simple as getting too warm. Heart rate will tend to be higher if you're hotter. If you're sweating a lot then it's time for a larger fan that moves more air.

I can't replicate outdoor numbers, indoors and consistently run about 25 to 30 watts lower indoors than out. I just note that and train accordingly.