HPV vs. Optima vs.P-38

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

HPV speed machine vs. Optima Lynx vs.P-38

Time for new bike, wife has stolen my V-Rex! These machines are my current top 3. Any comments on
the comfort of these machines with respect to seat position, construction? Any comments as to
speed of Euro's vs. P-38? Any info is appreciated, bias is welcome.

If you are comfortable with the Euro seat then go for it.(some aren't) I think the HPVelotechnik is
going to be a slow dog compared to the P-38 (35 lb vs. 27 lb) If you are a RANS seat fan, then the
P-38 seat will be an 'adjustment'.

I like my P-38 it is fast. It is not as comfortable as a Bacchetta or a RANS. Compared to the
current big wheel darlings of the NG, the P-38 design is 'tired' but proven.

Cletus D. Lee Bacchetta Giro Lightning Voyager clee.orgclee.orgOpen ↗
- Bellaire, TX USA -

GEE said:

HPV speed machine vs. Optima Lynx vs.P-38

Between the Lynx and the Speedmachine I'd choose the Speedmachine, but I prefer my Stinger to either
:-) Speed machine is lower, faster & I think lighter than the Lynx. It's very nice, but the rear end
of the Speedmachine I rode was not as stiff as that of my Stinger.

Guy
===
** WARNING ** This posting may contain traces of irony. chapmancentral.comchapmancentral.comOpen ↗ Advance
notice: ADSL service in process of transfer to a new ISP. Obviously there will be a week of downtime
between the engineer removing the BT service and the same engineer connecting the same equipment on
the same line in the same exchange and billing it to the new ISP.

Have ridden several thousand miles on a P-38. It is a good fast bike. Just switched to a Barcroft
Virginia and am just a bit faster, climbs as well or better and is more comfortable. Highly
recommend it.

Jim C

"GEE" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

HPV speed machine vs. Optima Lynx vs.P-38

Time for new bike, wife has stolen my V-Rex! These machines are my current top 3. Any comments on
the comfort of these machines with respect to seat position, construction? Any comments as to
speed of Euro's vs. P-38? Any info is appreciated, bias is welcome.

GEE

I love the speed and handling of my Lynx, however, I purchased it before the Speedmachine became
available. Were I looking today, it might be a toss up between them. The Speedmachine is lower, so
it might be slightly faster. It is not any lighter than the Lynx, though, but is heavier on the
pocketbook ($400 more when I last checked.) I prefer rigid Euro seats over mesh backs, strictly from
an esthetic viewpoint, but I've found them also to be very comfortable and ergonomic. Mesh seats are
probably cooler in hot weather, I'd imagine. I have no experience with Lightnings, but I know from
other posts that the P-38 is very fast and a great climber. If I'm not mistaken it's wheelbase is
somewhat shorter than that of the Lynx and Speedmachine which might mean a different handling ride.
I also recall that the P-38 was also out of my price range.

It may come down to a preference in the seat type and height, the angle of inclination and
relative bottom bracket elevation. All these I'd think would influence handling characteristics as
well as comfort.

Tough choice. Good luck.

"Jim C" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Have ridden several thousand miles on a P-38. It is a good fast bike. Just switched to a Barcroft
Virginia and am just a bit faster, climbs as well or better and is more comfortable. Highly
recommend it.

Jim C

"GEE" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

HPV speed machine vs. Optima Lynx vs.P-38

Time for new bike, wife has stolen my V-Rex! These machines are my current top 3. Any comments
on the comfort of these machines with respect to seat position, construction? Any comments as to
speed of Euro's vs. P-38? Any info is appreciated, bias is welcome.

GEE

I agree with Jim C. about the comfort and performance of the Barcroft, although I don't know if it
is faster than the P-38. Of the three you mentioned, the P-38 is lighter and stiffer. The Lynx and
the Speedmachine will provide a more comfortable ride. I find the P-38 to be fast and responsive,
but the ride is harsher than the V-Rex you are used to. I had problems with the Speedmachine, for
some reason. I kept falling over during my test runs. Seems to have a higher learning curve (for
me). Of the three, if the ride quality isn't important, the P-38 should rule.

Mike S. ST. Louis, Mo.

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

...Of the three you mentioned, the P-38 is lighter and stiffer.

I would hardly call the P-38 a stiffer bike unless the others are made from noodles. A lighter bike
is certain but to achieve that lower weight, LCD paid the expense losing a stiff frame. I can grab
the top of my P-38 seat and give the bike a good shake and the frame acts like "Jell-O". The cranks
deflect 1/4" side to side on each power pedal revolution due to the flex in the boom. The
'space-frame' construction is incredibly strong and light but the frame itself is designed to give
to torsional forces.

--

Cletus D. Lee Bacchetta Giro Lightning Voyager clee.orgclee.orgOpen ↗
- Bellaire, TX USA -

I've had a P-38, a Hurri (like the Lynx, but a little more laid back) and now I'm on a speedmachine.
The P-38 is light and fast, but has a harsh ride (especially with the small front wheel). Also, the
workmanship on mine was not great, and so I wouldn't buy this bike at full price (I bought a used
one). The speedmachine and Hurri are much heavier, but have rear suspension. If you have your
suspicions about adjusting to a euro seat, then I'd consider the barcroft (which I've seen but not
ridden). Also, the speedmachine has a large learning curve because the bb is much much higher than
the other bikes, and it has a fixed tiller. I'm very slow on it and I hope that I will get faster
with time.

Cletus Lee said:

I would hardly call the P-38 a stiffer bike unless the others are made from noodles. A lighter
bike is certain but to achieve that lower weight, LCD paid the expense losing a stiff frame. I can
grab the top of my P-38 seat and give the bike a good shake and the frame acts like "Jell-O". The
cranks deflect 1/4" side to side on each power pedal revolution due to the flex in the boom. The
'space-frame' construction is incredibly strong and light but the frame itself is designed to give
to torsional forces.

I believe that Cletus rides a medium frame P-38 Voyager. His posting would lead me to believe that
all P-38's are not created equally, since I rode a metric century on a XL P-38 (standard version)
and found the bike to be sufficiently stiff (more so than my 2000 RANS Rocket) in resisting pedaling
forces, including during climbing.

Tom Sherman - Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

I believe that Cletus rides a medium frame P-38 Voyager. His posting would lead me to believe that
all P-38's are not created equally

I would go so far as to say that no two are alike no matter what the size.

My Medium frame being more compact, one would think the frame stiffer that a XL. Up and down, the
frame is rigid. Torsional forces can easily twist the space frame. My Medium frame has the Boom
extended to the limit thereby fostering side to side motion when pedaling hard. If the boom were
inserted all the way in, say with a shorter rider on a longer bike, it would be stiffer.

You rode one P-38 once. so this gives you complete insight eh? It took me several years and the
installation of a "T" headlight mount to notice the play in the boom.
clee.orgLiteMount.jpgOpen ↗

Quoted message said:

, since I rode a metric century on a XL P-38 (standard version) and found the bike to be
sufficiently stiff (more so than my 2000 RANS Rocket) in resisting pedaling forces, including
during climbing.

--
Cletus D. Lee Bacchetta Giro Lightning Voyager clee.orgclee.orgOpen ↗
- Bellaire, TX USA -

Cletus D. Lee said:

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

I believe that Cletus rides a medium frame P-38 Voyager. His posting would lead me to believe
that all P-38's are not created equally

I would go so far as to say that no two are alike no matter what the size.

My Medium frame being more compact, one would think the frame stiffer that a XL. Up and down, the
frame is rigid. Torsional forces can easily twist the space frame. My Medium frame has the Boom
extended to the limit thereby fostering side to side motion when pedaling hard. If the boom were
inserted all the way in, say with a shorter rider on a longer bike, it would be stiffer.

You rode one P-38 once. so this gives you complete insight eh? It took me several years and the
installation of a "T" headlight mount to notice the play in the boom.
clee.orgLiteMount.jpgOpen ↗

Quoted message said:

, since I rode a metric century on a XL P-38 (standard version) and found the bike to be
sufficiently stiff (more so than my 2000 RANS Rocket) in resisting pedaling forces, including
during climbing.

I always make it a point to observe relative boom stiffness when I ride a different a SWB bike. If
it takes someone several years before they note a lack of stiffness in a boom, I suggest it is
because something with the bike has changed or that they are not paying attention.

LCD list the maximum rider weights for the different sizes of P-38's as follows: 160lbs (S), 200lbs
(M), 220 lbs. (L), 250 lbs. (XL). [1] Unless they are being completely arbitrary, one would expect a
frame with a higher weight limit to be significantly stiffer than a frame with a lower weight limit.
(It should be noted that the weight of the P-38 in question is about 32 pounds.) The owner of the
bike has not noted any problems with lack of frame stiffness during more than four years of
ownership.

The bike I rode had the boom inserted almost all the way, so there would be a significantly shorter
moment arm from the BB to the head tube.

[1] < lightningbikes.comp38.htmOpen ↗>

Tom Sherman - Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)

"GEE" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

HPV speed machine vs. Optima Lynx vs.P-38

Time for new bike, wife has stolen my V-Rex! These machines are my current top 3. Any comments on
the comfort of these machines with respect to seat position, construction? Any comments as to
speed of Euro's vs. P-38? Any info is appreciated, bias is welcome.

GEE

All three bikes are very nice choices. What type of riding will you do? What is your body type?
How much climbing will you encounter? It's difficult to guage which bent will be the most
suitable for you without knowing your preferrences. Personally, I enjoy both my Speedmachine and
P-38 but, they are very much different. Semi-low vs. std swb. Can't comment on the Lynx (The only
Optima experience I have is that of my Baron).

If you are a "well nourished" individual you may find that the Speedmachine will provide much
more of a challenge to get in and out of the cockpit. IMO the Speedmachine delivers a more
comfortable ride than the P-38. I find that the front suspension stablizes the handling,
particularly at speeds >30. Assuming that you can adapt to hardshell seats, another consideration
is the high BB position. Ater completing a century on the Speedmachine, I only encounter fatigue;
no specific pains. The weight difference is of little consequence to me. I'm 225#s, it would only
bare signficant impact if I were to race or do prolonged climbing.

For me the P-38 is faster by app. 5%. The P-38 is one of the best climbing bents in the industry
and was easier to acclimate to in general. The seat position is relatively upright and very
limited in comparison the SM. However, for commuting or city riding, being more upright allows
better vision. I've read some negative opinions about the quality control in regards to the
frame and the company's PR but, it would difficult to sustain an argument against the
success/performance of the P-38. After completing a century on the P-38 the only complaint I
have is that my butt, specifically the ishial tuberocity (the bones of the pelvis that you
actually sit on) will ache for a couple of hours after. (Overall, not that big of a deal). It
might be remedied with a little closed cell foam pad on the seat pan.

In genaral, I appreciate both bikes and their differences. For you, coming from a V-Rex, it
would probably be easier to transition to the P-38. As I eluded to earlier, it ultimately comes
down to your personal ergonomic preferrences and the type of riding you'll be doing.

I realize that my insight has all been expressed before at one time or another but, I hope it
helps your decision process none the less.

Happy Choosing, Pierre

[email hidden] (Pierre) wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

"GEE" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

HPV speed machine vs. Optima Lynx vs.P-38

Time for new bike, wife has stolen my V-Rex! These machines are my current top 3. Any comments
on the comfort of these machines with respect to seat position, construction? Any comments as to
speed of Euro's vs. P-38? Any info is appreciated, bias is welcome.

GEE

All three bikes are very nice choices. What type of riding will you do? What is your body type?
How much climbing will you encounter? It's difficult to guage which bent will be the most
suitable for you without knowing your preferrences. Personally, I enjoy both my Speedmachine
and P-38 but, they are very much different. Semi-low vs. std swb. Can't comment on the Lynx
(The only Optima experience I have is that of my Baron).

If you are a "well nourished" individual you may find that the Speedmachine will provide much
more of a challenge to get in and out of the cockpit. IMO the Speedmachine delivers a more
comfortable ride than the P-38. I find that the front suspension stablizes the handling,
particularly at speeds >30. Assuming that you can adapt to hardshell seats, another
consideration is the high BB position. Ater completing a century on the Speedmachine, I only
encounter fatigue; no specific pains. The weight difference is of little consequence to me. I'm
225#s, it would only bare signficant impact if I were to race or do prolonged climbing.

For me the P-38 is faster by app. 5%. The P-38 is one of the best climbing bents in the
industry and was easier to acclimate to in general. The seat position is relatively upright
and very limited in comparison the SM. However, for commuting or city riding, being more
upright allows better vision. I've read some negative opinions about the quality control in
regards to the frame and the company's PR but, it would difficult to sustain an argument
against the success/performance of the P-38. After completing a century on the P-38 the only
complaint I have is that my butt, specifically the ishial tuberocity (the bones of the pelvis
that you actually sit on) will ache for a couple of hours after. (Overall, not that big of a
deal). It might be remedied with a little closed cell foam pad on the seat pan.

In genaral, I appreciate both bikes and their differences. For you, coming from a V-Rex, it
would probably be easier to transition to the P-38. As I eluded to earlier, it ultimately
comes down to your personal ergonomic preferrences and the type of riding you'll be doing.

I realize that my insight has all been expressed before at one time or another but, I hope it
helps your decision process none the less.

Happy Choosing, Pierre

I ride a Speedmachine. I consider myself a "roadie," that was forced to ride a bent because of
physical issues(which are no longer issues). I got the Speedmachine because of the dual
suspension(comfort was a must) and that from what I heard, it was difficult to learn to ride. I
wanted the challenge. I have no experience riding any other bents, but I can also tell you to
discount any opinions about the Speedmachine from anyone who hasn't ridden it extensively. It does
have a learning curve. I figure about 300 miles. It took me awhile to get used to it. But once I
did, man oh man do I love it. I'm addicted to flying downhills(like a freakin' cruise missile), I
love hammering on the flats, and once I finally got my "bent legs" the hill climbing is really not
bad at all. I weigh 205lbs, I don't notice any extensive flex or pogoing. The seat is very
comfortable, the neck position takes some time to get used to it. I don't consider myself an
extrovert, so I'm really not crazy about the questions, and stares I get from people. I don't think
I'd get more attention if I wasdriving a convertible Ferrari with a naked J Lo at my side. I try to
be a good "bent ambassador" and answer all questions. I hope my post helps...