How would you ride this?

LSMike said:

Take a look at this stretch of road, and discuss where you'd ride, and
how you'd deal with the traffic:
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=d&t=k&ie=UTF8&ll=51.338436,0.03069&spn=0.001335,0.002221&z=19

Here's a video of a bus overtake from Sunday, which was astounding to
the oncoming car driver!!

Looks fine to me - he was noweher near you and there was enough space
for the oncoming car. What's the problem?

--
Ace in Alsace - brucedotrogers a.t rochedotcom

Ace said:

LSMike said:

Take a look at this stretch of road, and discuss where you'd ride,
and how you'd deal with the traffic:
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=d&t=k&ie=UTF8&ll=51.338436,0.03069&spn=0.001335,0.002221&z=19

Here's a video of a bus overtake from Sunday, which was astounding to
the oncoming car driver!!

Looks fine to me - he was noweher near you and there was enough space
for the oncoming car. What's the problem?

He likes to make videos of his feet on his funny bike in traffic.

That's a "starter problem" for ten.

--
Cheerz - Brownz
'89 K100RS
'53 JCW MCS

Ace said the following on 25/06/2008 09:46:

Quoted message said:

Looks fine to me - he was noweher near you and there was enough space
for the oncoming car. What's the problem?

Are you serious????

--
Paul Boyd
http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/

LSMike said:

Take a look at this stretch of road, and discuss where you'd ride, and
how you'd deal with the traffic:

Quoted message said:

Going northbound, it's easy, I'm rarely below 35mph, and usually over
40, so I'll take the whole lane. Southbound, it's steep, and I tend to
only just about manage 5-10mph. My mate takes the pavement, and he's a
copper. I can't say I blame him, as it's a pretty intimidating piece
of road with a 40 limit and very narrow.

How much traffic is there?

Sightlines look good, and drivers should easily be able to slow from
40 to 10 if they need to - as they would have to, for example, if
someone turned right into the side road in front of them.

If traffic is so busy, and the road so narrow, that you'd always
accumulate a long tail, the pavement might tempt me.

But if, for example, a car could pass with sufficient clearance even
with another car passing the other way, I'd just ride up in a
reasonable secondary position. Periodically I'd glance back to make
sure nothing big was trying to squeeze past, and perhaps move out a
little to discourage it.

I have a similar problem on Hanger Lane most mornings, with two narrow
lanes each way. I make very sure that anyone passing me uphill (except
m/cs) changes lane to do it.

Colin McKenzie

--
No-one has ever proved that cycle helmets make cycling any safer at
the population level, and anyway cycling is about as safe per mile as
walking.
Make an informed choice - visit www.cyclehelmets.org.

LSMike writtificated

Quoted message said:

Take a look at this stretch of road, and discuss where you'd ride, and
how you'd deal with the traffic:

Plenty of space for a car to pass, but a bus gets a little close for
comfort. The road is too wide, and you too slow, to take the primary
position without looking like you're taking the [censored]. I'd either accept
the close passes from buses or, if they pass a little to close or too fast
for comfort, use the pavement.

It's things like this that cycle lanes were invented for - they're meant to
ensure cyclists get overtaken by a safe, and non-scary, margin.
Unfortunately they're almost all way too narrow to do this :/

Paul Boyd said:

Ace said the following on 25/06/2008 09:46:

Quoted message said:

Looks fine to me - he was noweher near you and there was enough space
for the oncoming car. What's the problem?

Are you serious????

Sure. Where I live in France most drivers are very cautious about
overtaking cyclists, presumably due to the fact that most people have
been cyclists at some point in their lives, or still are, but even so
I'm sure I had at least two or three people overtake me closer than
that on my way home[1] last night. Didn't bother me in the slightest.

Perhaps you'd care to explain what the problem was. Did you honestly
feel that the bent rider was put in any danger by the bus?

[1] 25km, but the first[2] time I've done that sort of distance since
I broke my thorax[3] in a motorbike accident a couple of years ago. So
although I'm relatively "fit" I'm nowhere near what I'd like to be,
and the mainly uphill route home proved to be a bit too much, such
that I was often doing less than 10kph on the uphill sections and had
to get off and walk on a couple of steeper hills.
[2] Well, I'd cycled in yesterday morning, but there's about a 75m
height difference, so the 1h:17 of the more downhill morning ride took
me nearly two hours, including a couple of sit-down stops, in the
evening.
[3] Google on UKRM for the details, although I think it was posted on
here too at some point.
--
Ace in Alsace - brucedotrogers a.t rochedotcom

On Wed, 25 Jun 2008 10:46:32 +0200

Ace said:

LSMike said:

Take a look at this stretch of road, and discuss where you'd ride,
and how you'd deal with the traffic:
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=d&t=k&ie=UTF8&ll=51.338436,0.03069&spn=0.001335,0.002221&z=19

Here's a video of a bus overtake from Sunday, which was astounding to
the oncoming car driver!!

Looks fine to me - he was noweher near you and there was enough space
for the oncoming car. What's the problem?

Your failure to appreciate how a wide-angle lens affects perspective?

On Wed, 25 Jun 2008 12:13:44 +0100, Rob Morley <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

On Wed, 25 Jun 2008 10:46:32 +0200
Ace <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Looks fine to me - he was noweher near you and there was enough space
for the oncoming car. What's the problem?

Your failure to appreciate how a wide-angle lens affects perspective?

Well the bus seemed to be 70% over the centre-line as he passed, so
given the cyclist's road position he must have been at least three
feet clear, probably closer to five. How much space do you need?

--
Ace in Alsace - brucedotrogers a.t rochedotcom

On Wed, 25 Jun 2008 00:40:46 -0700 (PDT)

LSMike said:

Take a look at this stretch of road, and discuss where you'd ride, and
how you'd deal with the traffic:
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=d&t=k&ie=UTF8&ll=51.338436,0.03069&spn=0.001335,0.002221&z=19

Here's a video of a bus overtake from Sunday, which was astounding to
the oncoming car driver!!

Going northbound, it's easy, I'm rarely below 35mph, and usually over
40, so I'll take the whole lane. Southbound, it's steep, and I tend to
only just about manage 5-10mph. My mate takes the pavement, and he's a
copper. I can't say I blame him, as it's a pretty intimidating piece
of road with a 40 limit and very narrow.

If used that road often I'd be inclined to fit a 2 foot pole with a big
amber flasher on it sticking out the side of the seat. Or get very
good at riding up hills fast. For occasional use I'd probably keep a
close eye on my mirror and use the "weaving erratically" method of
being big, while being prepared to ditch on the pavement. It's really
not a nice road, especially as the clear pavement probably makes car
drivers think it's a bit wider than it actually is.

Ace said the following on 25/06/2008 11:45:

Quoted message said:

Perhaps you'd care to explain what the problem was. Did you honestly
feel that the bent rider was put in any danger by the bus?

I was referring to your bit about "enough space for the oncoming car".
Look again, especially at the slo-mo bit. The OP isn't about any
perceived danger to the cyclist, and as far as I can tell there wasn't any.

--
Paul Boyd
http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/

LSMike said:

Here's a video of a bus overtake from Sunday, which was astounding to
the oncoming car driver!!

That isn't really anything out of the ordinary.

What is bothering me more than close-overtaking, recently, is buses driving
extremely close behind me when I'm in the primary position. If I touched
the brakes, they'd be into the back of me.

~PB

Paul Boyd said:

Ace said the following on 25/06/2008 11:45:

Quoted message said:

Perhaps you'd care to explain what the problem was. Did you honestly
feel that the bent rider was put in any danger by the bus?

I was referring to your bit about "enough space for the oncoming car".
Look again, especially at the slo-mo bit.

Oh, right. Well, it was a bit tight, I grant you, but I see worse on a
regular basis.

Quoted message said:

The OP isn't about any
perceived danger to the cyclist, and as far as I can tell there wasn't any.

Good, I was thinking it was just me.

--
Ace in Alsace - brucedotrogers a.t rochedotcom

On 25/06/2008 13:21, Pete Biggs said,

Quoted message said:

What is bothering me more than close-overtaking, recently, is buses driving
extremely close behind me when I'm in the primary position. If I touched
the brakes, they'd be into the back of me.

What you need is the bike equivalent of touching the brake with your
left foot just enough for the brake lights to come on, that some
motorists do. Apparently ;-)

--
Paul Boyd
http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/

Pete Biggs said:

LSMike said:

Here's a video of a bus overtake from Sunday, which was astounding to
the oncoming car driver!!

That isn't really anything out of the ordinary.

What is bothering me more than close-overtaking, recently, is buses driving
extremely close behind me when I'm in the primary position. If I touched
the brakes, they'd be into the back of me.

~PB

maybe a wobble at just the right moment? rather like in a car brushing
the brake peddle so they get the message.

roger
--
www.rogermerriman.com

Mark T
<pleasegivegenerously@warmail*turn_up_the_heat_to_reply*.com.invalid>

Quoted message said:

LSMike writtificated

Quoted message said:

Take a look at this stretch of road, and discuss where you'd ride, and
how you'd deal with the traffic:

Plenty of space for a car to pass, but a bus gets a little close for
comfort. The road is too wide, and you too slow, to take the primary
position without looking like you're taking the [censored]. I'd either accept
the close passes from buses or, if they pass a little to close or too fast
for comfort, use the pavement.

It's things like this that cycle lanes were invented for - they're meant to
ensure cyclists get overtaken by a safe, and non-scary, margin.
Unfortunately they're almost all way too narrow to do this :/

yup the buses use seem to use it on hampton court to mean i'll overtake
just my side of the white line at fairly high speed. though they are
moving the cycle lane onto the pavement there, which means a fair number
will just use the narrower road as while you don't get many people
walking there normally is one or two during rush hour, and you don't use
that road really unless you want to get there, if your pottering you'd
either roll though Bushy Park or next to the river.

roger
--
www.rogermerriman.com

LSMike said:

Take a look at this stretch of road, and discuss where you'd ride, and
how you'd deal with the traffic:http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=d&t=k&ie=UTF8&ll=51.338436,0.03069&sp...

Here's a video of a bus overtake from Sunday, which was astounding to
the oncoming car driver!!

Going northbound, it's easy, I'm rarely below 35mph, and usually over
40, so I'll take the whole lane. Southbound, it's steep, and I tend to
only just about manage 5-10mph. My mate takes the pavement, and he's a
copper. I can't say I blame him, as it's a pretty intimidating piece
of road with a 40 limit and very narrow.

(apologies to anyone who's seen this elsewhere).

I'm not seeing the problem here, you get on your bike, ride on the
left(ish) and keep pedaling. What else could you do?

Maybe you could pedal a bit faster to cut down on the wobbling.

Marz writtificated

Quoted message said:

I'm not seeing the problem here

The problem is that 10 tonnes of metal whooshing by a few feet away at
30mph is unnerving, and I'm used to it.

For someone new to cycling, it scares the [censored] out of them. They give up
cycling and get back in the car.

On 25 Jun 2008 19:58:03 GMT, Mark T
<pleasegivegenerously@warmail*turn_up_the_heat_to_reply*.com.invalid>

Quoted message said:

The problem is that 10 tonnes of metal whooshing by a few feet away at
30mph is unnerving, and I'm used to it.

For someone new to cycling, it scares the [censored] out of them. They give up
cycling and get back in the car.

Indeed. Which is why Dutch-style segregated lanes are better than
cycles in a bus lane. Apart from that cycles and buses are
fundamentally incompatible[1] and each delays the other.

[1] Most buses wish to move at a relatively high speed for short
periods with stops in between. Most cyclists wish to move at a lower
constant speed. These two IMO don't get on.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

(Neil Williams) said:

Indeed. Which is why Dutch-style segregated lanes are better than
cycles in a bus lane. Apart from that cycles and buses are
fundamentally incompatible[1] and each delays the other.

Are you kidding? Bus lanes are in general the only "cycle facilities"
I willingly use. Decently wide, usually reasonably well surfaced (but
watch out for ruts and diesel spills near stops), don't give way yto
driveways every 50 metres, and not covered in broken glass

Segregated lanes just mean you have nowhere to go if you want to
overtake the cyclist in front.

-dan