How would you remove dropouts?

Quoted message said:

I'm planning to convert an old frame to single-speed and/or fixed.

It's

Quoted message said:

a '92 Bridgestone MB-3 with vertical dropouts. My plan is to purchase
some Henry James or Nova Cycles conversion fork-ends, and have a

local

Quoted message said:

weldor (sic.) attach them.

I will be fabricating the cylinder to hold them in the proper
orientation, so the welder will just have to lay the bead.

Anyway, does anyone have any recommendations for removing the old
dropouts? They are welded into slots in the stays, which is how the

new

Quoted message said:

fork ends will go in. I was thinking I would saw and grind away the

old

Quoted message said:

dropouts, then use an angle grinder to remove the material from the
slots.

Is this the way to go about it, or is there an easy way the weldor

can

Quoted message said:

"heat" them out of there?

Thanks!

It MIGHT be easier to get a White Industries ENO eccentric hub. That
will allow you to use vertical dropouts, and its a fantastic hub.
Probably the expense will be less than changing the dropouts, and the
wheel will be useable on other frames.

Quoted message said:

-Mike

may have said:

Anyway, does anyone have any recommendations for removing the old
dropouts? They are welded into slots in the stays,

Are you sure they're welded? It's more common for dropouts to be
brazed in place, allowing them to be easily replaced in case of
damage.

Quoted message said:

which is how the new
fork ends will go in. I was thinking I would saw and grind away the old
dropouts, then use an angle grinder to remove the material from the
slots.

First remove the paint from the joint and inspect carefully. You may
find that you have less work to do than you expected.

Quoted message said:

Is this the way to go about it, or is there an easy way the weldor can
"heat" them out of there?

If they're brazed (or silver soldered; it looks the same) then yes,
apply a little heat to flow the joint and the dropouts will pull right
out of the tubes. If that's the way they're attached, you'll be well
advised to stick with that method for the new ones. If they are
indeed welded, the task is more complicated; I would hand it over to
an experienced frame repair person as there are nuances involved that
you may miss.

--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.
Typoes are not a bug, they're a feature.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

In message <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] writes

Quoted message said:

Is this the way to go about it, or is there an easy way the weldor can
"heat" them out of there?

Not if they are welded. If they are brazed, yes but is probably best to
do it mechanically anyway as you have to use more heat to break than to
make a brazed joint.

If they are brazed, you would do well to stick with that process and
find yourself skilled help and material to match. The brass boiling off
from inside the tube is not going to do much for the quality of a
welding job.

--

Martyn Aldis, e-mail [email hidden]
==============================================================================

select a "welder" with the extreme caution used for stepping on
rattlesnakes
try for someone with auto racing, aerospace, antique, or aircraft
experience, ditto references, and not to busy when you approach him on
your knees holding wad of dough-and on wednesday or tuesday after lunch
when there's no other people or cars in the lot. make sure he's not a
drunk.

"Martyn Aldis" wrote: (clip) The brass boiling off from inside the tube is
not going to do much for the quality of a welding job.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This is a critical point. The alloy of brass or silver solder and steel is
very weak. If the joint has been previously brazed, then proper cleaning
will prepare the joint for repair, and the new filler should flow very
nicely.

Quoted message said:

I'm planning to convert an old frame to single-speed and/or fixed. It's
a '92 Bridgestone MB-3 with vertical dropouts.

I think that's a steel frameset, which means the dropouts are brazed.

Quoted message said:

My plan is to purchase some Henry James or Nova Cycles conversion
fork-ends, and have a local weldor (sic.) attach them.

This should only cost you about $175 - henry james dropouts plus
remove and reinstall dropouts at a reputable frame builder plus
alignment (see http://www.campyonly.com/joebell/price_list.html .)

You have an option to simply use a white industries ENO hub for $160,
and still be able to convert your bike back to a umpteen-speed when
that day comes, and sell the ENO hub to get much of your money back.

The ENO is worth it, imho.

- Don Gillies
San Diego, CA

Yes, this is a steel (Ritchey Logic tubing) frame, so it's brazed I
guess.

So maybe I should do this in two trips to a weldor? One to de-braze the
dropouts, then I go home, clean it mechanically, set up my jig and
such, then go back to have the new dropouts brazed? With brass?

("Weldor" appears to be what the people who weld prefer to be called on
rec.crafts.metalworking, where the equipment is a "welder"😉.

I have half a mind to just rent an O/A setup and do this all myself.

-Mike

Leo Lichtman said:

"Martyn Aldis" wrote: (clip) The brass boiling off from inside the

tube is

Quoted message said:

not going to do much for the quality of a welding job.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This is a critical point. The alloy of brass or silver solder and

steel is

Quoted message said:

very weak. If the joint has been previously brazed, then proper

cleaning

Quoted message said:

will prepare the joint for repair, and the new filler should flow

very

Quoted message said:

nicely.

may have said:

Yes, this is a steel (Ritchey Logic tubing) frame, so it's brazed I
guess.

So maybe I should do this in two trips to a weldor? One to de-braze the
dropouts, then I go home, clean it mechanically, set up my jig and
such, then go back to have the new dropouts brazed? With brass?

If the person doing the job is not familiar with the specific issues
involved in working with thinwall steel tubing silver-soldered joints,
I would urge you to find a specialty shop that does bike frame repair
to handle the task. I've done a bit of silver-solder joining over the
years on various things like refrigeration lines, jewelry, and custom
parts for performance cars, but I would balk at trying a dropout
replacement without consulting with someone who could provide the
pointers needed for this task. (Unlss, of course, it was a matter of
"fix it or walk to work tomorrow", in which case I'd just have at and
do what seemed right. Which might be wrong.)

Quoted message said:

("Weldor" appears to be what the people who weld prefer to be called on
rec.crafts.metalworking, where the equipment is a "welder"😉.

Well, the professional welders I know all spell it with an "e"; you're
talking to some crafts-level types over in rcm, not the kind of folks
who do this for a living every day.

Quoted message said:

I have half a mind to just rent an O/A setup and do this all myself.

If you have two or three junk frames to use for practice, and you're a
quick learner, this might work. I would not want to try this for the
first time on a bike that I really liked and wanted to keep. That's
just me, of course; some people are more adventurous. While this task
isn't rocket science, it's still something that's easy enough to screw
up without realizing that it's not right.

--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.
Typoes are not a bug, they're a feature.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

Yeah, I'm usually a quick learner, usually working in carpentry,
woodworking, and wrenching. Technically, this is a junk frame because I
would not be using it for anything if not for this project. If I ruin
it, a junk frame it will remain.

The problem I have with framebuilders is that I live in a wannabe "bike
town," Austin, TX. There are no framebuilders here. This means that I
have to contact Hans Schneider in Houston, or Skip Hujsak in Wimberly.
I'm not interested in a road trip or frame shipping costs for this
project. I miss the days when I lived in the Denver area and used to
ride with frame builders, just on accident. <sigh>

Well, thanks for the advice, I'll mull it over a bit. I'll probably
just rig it as close as I can with the vertical dropouts and a lot of
spacers on my freehub for now. That way I can decide how important this
project really is to me.

-Mike

Werehatrack said:

may have said:

Yes, this is a steel (Ritchey Logic tubing) frame, so it's brazed I
guess.

So maybe I should do this in two trips to a weldor? One to de-braze

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

dropouts, then I go home, clean it mechanically, set up my jig and
such, then go back to have the new dropouts brazed? With brass?

If the person doing the job is not familiar with the specific issues
involved in working with thinwall steel tubing silver-soldered

joints,

Quoted message said:

I would urge you to find a specialty shop that does bike frame repair
to handle the task. I've done a bit of silver-solder joining over

the

Quoted message said:

years on various things like refrigeration lines, jewelry, and custom
parts for performance cars, but I would balk at trying a dropout
replacement without consulting with someone who could provide the
pointers needed for this task. (Unlss, of course, it was a matter of
"fix it or walk to work tomorrow", in which case I'd just have at and
do what seemed right. Which might be wrong.)

Quoted message said:

("Weldor" appears to be what the people who weld prefer to be called

on

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

rec.crafts.metalworking, where the equipment is a "welder"😉.

Well, the professional welders I know all spell it with an "e";

you're

Quoted message said:

talking to some crafts-level types over in rcm, not the kind of folks
who do this for a living every day.

Quoted message said:

I have half a mind to just rent an O/A setup and do this all myself.

If you have two or three junk frames to use for practice, and you're

a

Quoted message said:

quick learner, this might work. I would not want to try this for the
first time on a bike that I really liked and wanted to keep. That's
just me, of course; some people are more adventurous. While this

task

Quoted message said:

isn't rocket science, it's still something that's easy enough to

screw

Quoted message said:

up without realizing that it's not right.

--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.
Typoes are not a bug, they're a feature.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

Hi, Mike, you really don't _have_ to replaced your vertical dropouts to
run your bike as a singlespeed or fixed.

You can use a 'chain tensioner' and go with singlespeed, or you can go
fixed and get the chain tension correct by using the correct
combination of chainring/rear sprocket and 'half-links' for your chain.

Hope this will save you some bucks. :-)

Lewis.

***********

Quoted message said:

I'm planning to convert an old frame to single-speed and/or fixed. It's
a '92 Bridgestone MB-3 with vertical dropouts. My plan is to purchase
some Henry James or Nova Cycles conversion fork-ends, and have a local
weldor (sic.) attach them.

I will be fabricating the cylinder to hold them in the proper
orientation, so the welder will just have to lay the bead.

Anyway, does anyone have any recommendations for removing the old
dropouts? They are welded into slots in the stays, which is how the new
fork ends will go in. I was thinking I would saw and grind away the old
dropouts, then use an angle grinder to remove the material from the
slots.

Is this the way to go about it, or is there an easy way the weldor can
"heat" them out of there?

Your MB3 is brazed not welded so yes, pull the old ones out
with heat after cleaning and adding flux. You will most
likely need to do some cutting to get a proper alignment/fit.
http://www.yellowjersey.org/endweld.html
http://www.yellowjersey.org/trakends.html

Or just ship it to us!
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Yeah, I was admiring your work a couple days ago when I was doing some
research. You're prominently represented in Google results with related
keywords 😉

You guys on my short list of experienced services for this job, if I
decide to go that direction.

A Muzi said:

Quoted message said:

I'm planning to convert an old frame to single-speed and/or fixed.

It's

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

a '92 Bridgestone MB-3 with vertical dropouts. My plan is to

purchase

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

some Henry James or Nova Cycles conversion fork-ends, and have a

local

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

weldor (sic.) attach them.

I will be fabricating the cylinder to hold them in the proper
orientation, so the welder will just have to lay the bead.

Anyway, does anyone have any recommendations for removing the old
dropouts? They are welded into slots in the stays, which is how the

new

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

fork ends will go in. I was thinking I would saw and grind away the

old

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

dropouts, then use an angle grinder to remove the material from the
slots.

Is this the way to go about it, or is there an easy way the weldor

can

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"heat" them out of there?

Your MB3 is brazed not welded so yes, pull the old ones out
with heat after cleaning and adding flux. You will most
likely need to do some cutting to get a proper alignment/fit.
http://www.yellowjersey.org/endweld.html
http://www.yellowjersey.org/trakends.html

Or just ship it to us!
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

more! i ave two suntour dropouts with adjusting screws on the wheel
trueing rear triangle and a need for a brazing rig with more than ten
available projects stored. I figure some practice and practice on an
actual dropout used frame but not the main ride would cut it...with
some frame book reads(available thru world catalog search and then
interlibrary loan) but even with minor experience a frame/wheel/deray
alignments using string and level..
i came to the dropout plier insertion tool in biketools.com catalog
that proclaims an answer to inserting the hot? dropout into the hot?
but cooling cooling frame and leaving it there without misalignment
like it seems to say that dropping the dropout off at the frame is not
as easy as it doesn't sound.
a similar dilemma unsolved by the canvas covered homebuilt canoe and
kayak book borrowed for that moment when the covering gets wrapped
without wrinkles around the bow or stern how how how i wondered and the
authors-most experienced craftsmen said- damned if we know!!!

by the way-i get cycle writing feedback from the locals who are
neither reticent nor intelligent but in traveling an abreviated route
after the weldor as snake post, i received 5 agreements in 1 1/2 miles
after dark-3 from passing cars 2 stationary.

Wow. Easy on the caffiene there buddy.

Quoted message said:

by the way-i get cycle writing feedback from the locals who are
neither reticent nor intelligent but in traveling an abreviated route
after the weldor as snake post, i received 5 agreements in 1 1/2

miles

Quoted message said:

after dark-3 from passing cars 2 stationary.