How to train for hills when you live in the flatlands?

Some will argue that being able to climb well is about technique, but I disagree. I think it's about power. Riding on the flat, especially in a paceline, just doesn't take much power. For example, you can ride all day at 15-17mph in a paceline with ~150w of power. But, when you climb you lose all advantage of drafting (unless the grade is very slight) and you have to rely on pure power. Granted, you can climb with 150w of power, but very, very slowly. If you had more sustainable power, you would be able to climb well even if you did all your riding on frozen lakes in MN in the winter (i.e., flat as a board). The second big difference with climbing is that the intensity is constant. When you ride on the flat, especially in a paceline, you'd be amazed to see how much of the time you are resting (i.e., power = zero). When you climb, if you rest the bike stops and you fall off. So, there's no resting on climbs. The bottom line is that you need to do two things: (1) increase your power, at least for climbs of the duration you will encounter on your ride and (2) practice riding at a constant intensity for the entire duration of the climbs you will encounter on your ride. The final point is about gearing. Some will argue that you need to learn to climb with the gears the pros use. Even the term, "Granny Gears," reinforces this attitude. That approach will put you in larger gears and lower cadences than you would self-select. I don't buy that logic. I would gear my bike to be able to ride my preferred cadence (e.g., 90-100) regardless of what people call my gears. They can call them "girlie-man gears" for all I care. We can discuss it at the top of the hill where I'll be patiently waiting for them to grind their way up the hill in their "manly-man gears." You can do all of this on the flat by following the training regimens for increasing LT and VO2MAX. You can work out your gearing by finding out the grades of your ride and working out your bike speed at AnalyticCycling.com. I have a 34/29 on my bike, and I do a lot of climbing, so that'll give you some idea of what I think one needs at the low end for climbing.

txags92 said:

How to train for hills when you live in the flatlands?

Cliff's Notes version ...

Increase sustainable power. Reduce bodyweight.

Quoted post said:

You can do all of this on the flat by following the training regimens for increasing LT and VO2MAX.

Quoted post said:

Cliff's Notes version ...

Increase sustainable power. Reduce bodyweight.

Ok, I appreciate the detail in Rapdaddyo's response, but while both of the suggestions quoted above are great ideas, they both seem to simply repeat what I already said my goals were...Can you give me any more detail on what I should be doing as a "training regimen for increasing LT and VO2max" or some suggestions on how to best go about "increasing sustainable power and reducing bodyweight"? And yes, I know the easy answer is to "go climb hills", but as I explained, I have no hills nearby and am likely to be doing alot of indoor riding and gym time soon. Any ideas?

If you have no hill available I would suggest using a trainer on high resistance to help increase your climbing power.

Or move where I live.

txags92 said:

Ok, I appreciate the detail in Rapdaddyo's response, but while both of the suggestions quoted above are great ideas, they both seem to simply repeat what I already said my goals were...Can you give me any more detail on what I should be doing as a "training regimen for increasing LT and VO2max" or some suggestions on how to best go about "increasing sustainable power and reducing bodyweight"? And yes, I know the easy answer is to "go climb hills", but as I explained, I have no hills nearby and am likely to be doing alot of indoor riding and gym time soon. Any ideas?

Did you actually read my response? You asked, "what can I do to increase my climbing power and aerobic capacity?" I said, in effect, "to increase your sustainable power is to increase your climbing power and you don't need hills to increase your sustainable power." I said a lot more than that, but I'm not going to repeat it. Every training regimen has recommended training rides targeting LT and VO2MAX, but if you don't have one you prefer, try this peakscoachinggroup.compowertrainingchapter.pdfOpen ↗. It's got all the training advice you should need, targeting all the training goals. I would think you would be most interested in L4 and L5.

txags92 said:

Ok, I appreciate the detail in Rapdaddyo's response, but while both of the suggestions quoted above are great ideas, they both seem to simply repeat what I already said my goals were...

Then you're on the right track.

Quoted post said:

Can you give me any more detail on what I should be doing as a "training regimen for increasing LT and VO2max"

LT: 2 x 20 min intervals
VO2: 5 x 4 min intervals

The short answer is that there is no single answer: what you're asking for is the "holy grail" that we all seek. I've read at least six training books, and numerous articles looking for the same answers, and I've just been scratching the surface. No one here can give a training prescription without tons of background information and data on you as an individual. If you don't like the "DIY" approach, you could send you specifics to a coaching service, or hire a local coach to work with.

Reducing bodyweight is the obvious and effective way to improve power to weight ratio for most of us...it's just not fun. If you drop 5% bodyweight, you climb steep hills 5% faster with the same effort. It's almost magic.

Basic concept for improving power is that you need to start riding at higher output levels for some % of your weekly training. EG, you could do 2 x 20 minutes one day a week, at LT power (maybe 85% of max HR), and another day a week at VO2 max levels, essentially all out, for shorter periods, like 3-5 mins. As always, how hard, how long, and how often are the key variables that everyone has to figure out to make optimum progress. Hard training requires real recovery, and too much is worse than not enough.

Or, you could just forget all the structured stuff, and ride hard when you feel like it. Sprints for road signs, or extended pulls for your buddies is a great way to do it.

Okay, let me weight in here....

1) Lose weight, it's by far, the fastest way to improve your climbing.
2) Make windy days your virtual hill day. I can't remember if I read it in one of Chris Carmichael's books or in the USA Cycling Coaching manual, but they noted how elite cyclist (coincidentally) from Texas ride into the wind to simulate hill climbing.
3) Here I would say work on technique by following and emulating good hill climbers but since you don't have any hills, skip this one.

By the way, when I would vacation in Florida which is really flat, I would see cyclists using overpasses and bridges for their hill workouts. I'm not sure how that worked out for them but it's a thought.

RD and Doc, sorry I didn't see your responses while I was compiling my own tome.

Doc, that "standard prescription" you gave is similar to my example. Believe you'd agree it's an example point on a training program which needs to be tailored to the individual, based on fitness levels, age, goals, etc. If this question had one simple answer for everyone, coaches wouldn't have much business!

RD, liked your point on the gearing

John Budnik said:

By the way, when I would vacation in Florida which is really flat, I would see cyclists using overpasses and bridges for their hill workouts. I'm not sure how that worked out for them but it's a thought.

And, for another creative idea cyclingforums.comshowpost.phpOpen ↗

dhk said:

Doc, that "standard prescription" you gave is similar to my example. Believe you'd agree it's an example point on a training program which needs to be tailored to the individual, based on fitness levels, age, goals, etc. If this question had one simple answer for everyone, coaches wouldn't have much business!

Yes, I agree completely. Holy Grail indeed! If only....

... and now for something completely different! 😄

I am sorry if my reply asking for more info came across the wrong way. I wasn't in any way taking exception to what had been suggested, just asking for a little more detail. I really appreciate the links and suggestions. And yes, I did read what you had said Rapdaddyo, and much of it is what I have already been doing in my climbing gearing and such, but what I was really looking for was more along the lines of what kind of training regimes people here have used or know of that can work on sustainable power in the absence of hills. It looks like the link you provided will have alot of that info, although I will have to wait until I get home to view it since my work firewall blocks the site.

Thanks again!

txags92 said:

I am sorry if my reply asking for more info came across the wrong way. I wasn't in any way taking exception to what had been suggested, just asking for a little more detail. I really appreciate the links and suggestions. And yes, I did read what you had said Rapdaddyo, and much of it is what I have already been doing in my climbing gearing and such, but what I was really looking for was more along the lines of what kind of training regimes people here have used or know of that can work on sustainable power in the absence of hills. It looks like the link you provided will have alot of that info, although I will have to wait until I get home to view it since my work firewall blocks the site.

Thanks again!

No problem. What threw me off was your repeated references to "climbing power," in both the title of your thread and your original post. I was trying to help you understand that if you have more sustainable power you will also have more climbing power and that sustainable power can be increased with or without the availability of hills. In effect, I was trying to get you to understand that your stated training goal was wrong -- you don't need to increase your climbing power, you need to increase your sustainable power. Every reputable training program (of which the link I attached is just one) addresses the training goal of increasing sustainable power. And, if you're not overgeared for hills, you are in the minority among new riders. Most new riders are overgeared for hills.

John Budnik said:

2) Make windy days your virtual hill day. I can't remember if I read it in one of Chris Carmichael's books or in the USA Cycling Coaching manual, but they noted how elite cyclist (coincidentally) from Texas ride into the wind to simulate hill climbing.

I read about 1 elite cyclist from Texas who moved to Spain (via France) to get his hill-climbs. I guess the wind didn't blow hard enough for him. 😄

Well, its about a 3 hour drive one way for me to get to the part of Texas where that elite cyclist trains. There are hills in Austin and San Antonio...but none to speak of in Houston unless you count parking garages and overpasses.

frenchyge said:

I read about 1 elite cyclist from Texas who moved to Spain (via France) to get his hill-climbs. I guess the wind didn't blow hard enough for him. 😄

You mean it's that much windier in Spain? 😄

Yeah...something about the food they serve...

txags92 said:

Yeah...something about the food they serve...

That's a real gas! :eek: :o

txags92 said:

Yeah...something about the food they serve...

I thought it was because France sucks.... 😄 Sorry. :o 🙁