how to shift

RB said:

We just bought my wife a 10speed. What is the technique for smooth
shifting, both up and down ratios?

Keep the pedals rotating during the shift but don't push
hard on the pedals.

Don't try to shift with the bike standing still.

Don't pedal backwards during a shift.

RB said:

We just bought my wife a 10speed. What is the technique for smooth
shifting, both up and down ratios?

Start here: <http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gears.html>.

Has anyone even made 10-speed bikes in the last 20 years? Even most
low-end LBS bikes in the early 1980's had 6-speed freewheels.

--
Tom Sherman - Here, not there.

Bill S <[email hidden]> wrote in news:%_aYg.17884$Tq3.2557
@tornado.tampabay.rr.com:

Quoted message said:

RB said:

We just bought my wife a 10speed. What is the technique for smooth
shifting, both up and down ratios?

Keep the pedals rotating during the shift but don't push
hard on the pedals.

Don't try to shift with the bike standing still.

Don't pedal backwards during a shift.

If you're not used to high pedalling rates, I'd add practice to raise
your pedalling rate 80rpm to 90rpm, and shift before you think you have
to going uphills, and after you think you have to going downhill (that
also helps you practice higher cadences). That should keep you in a
comfortable force band which should keep you from tiring quickly and
overstressing the legs.

It also helps you follow the above advice because I would think the whole
system will always be turning fast enough for a smooth shift. That is,
you won't often find yourself 'in extremis', at low speeds, low cadence,
and high load on the pedals. You also won't have to worry about reaching
for the shifters when you're at the point of gripping the handlebars to
apply that high load when you've unfortunately gotten caught in too steep
a gear for the terrain.

I recall seeing a couple riding their bikes this Summer on the same road
I use for part of my laps, and the husband just pounded away at low
pedalling rates while the wife kept her pedalling speed up. She always
had enough breath to say hello, while he was always tapped out after the
short 4% hill.

If you are really a technophile, you could plot your gears vs. speed(rpm)
and see what speeds bands you need to be comfortable in to make a shift
that doesn't bog you down when changing to a higher gear or have you
pedalling away like a sewing machine on high speed when changing to a
lower gear.

wvantwiller said:

I'd add practice to raise
your pedalling rate 80rpm to 90rpm

Why?

--
JT
****************************
Remove "remove" to reply
Visit http://www.jt10000.com
****************************

John Forrest Tomlinson <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

wvantwiller said:

I'd add practice to raise
your pedalling rate 80rpm to 90rpm

Why?

Because it's a lot easier to recover from shifting too late when you start
out at a higher pedaling rate than being stuck with being barely able to
turn the pedals when you've waited too long to make a shift. Especially
when you consider the forces on the machinery that you're probably trying
to shift, the grip you have on the handlebars to try and turn the pedals,
the balance problem when you move one hand to shift while applying that
force to the pedals, and the fact that you're probably losing speed all the
while and approaching tipover. If you lose enough speed in the entire
divergent process you might even start hunting with the steering to
maintain balance, and end up steering somewhere you really don't want to
be.

You also can't accelerate out of problems when your stuck in too tall a
gear.

I believe the meat of that was covered in the original post, but not to
this detail. Try to envision the last time you got stuck in too tall a
gear, and imagine it was at an Stop intersection w/traffic and not just on
a hill.

John Forrest Tomlinson said:

wvantwiller said:

John Forrest Tomlinson <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

On Sat, 14 Oct 2006 16:42:05 -0400, wvantwiller
<[email hidden]> wrote:

>I'd add practice to raise
>your pedalling rate 80rpm to 90rpm

Why?

Because it's a lot easier to recover from shifting too late when you start
out at a higher pedaling rate than being stuck with being barely able to
turn the pedals when you've waited too long to make a shift. Especially
when you consider the forces on the machinery that you're probably trying
to shift, the grip you have on the handlebars to try and turn the pedals,
the balance problem when you move one hand to shift while applying that
force to the pedals, and the fact that you're probably losing speed all the
while and approaching tipover. If you lose enough speed in the entire
divergent process you might even start hunting with the steering to
maintain balance, and end up steering somewhere you really don't want to
be.

Wow, I didn't realize all the dangers in shifting while pedalling
below 80rpm.

Dear John,

Wow, me too--I didn't realize that I was in danger of tipping over as
I shifted down from my usual 53x11 at around 60 rpm and 20-25 mph to
deal with the gentle climb on my daily ride at about 10 mph.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

wvantwiller said:

John Forrest Tomlinson <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

wvantwiller said:

I'd add practice to raise
your pedalling rate 80rpm to 90rpm

Why?

Because it's a lot easier to recover from shifting too late when you start
out at a higher pedaling rate than being stuck with being barely able to
turn the pedals when you've waited too long to make a shift. Especially
when you consider the forces on the machinery that you're probably trying
to shift, the grip you have on the handlebars to try and turn the pedals,
the balance problem when you move one hand to shift while applying that
force to the pedals, and the fact that you're probably losing speed all the
while and approaching tipover. If you lose enough speed in the entire
divergent process you might even start hunting with the steering to
maintain balance, and end up steering somewhere you really don't want to
be.

Wow, I didn't realize all the dangers in shifting while pedalling
below 80rpm.
--
JT
****************************
Remove "remove" to reply
Visit http://www.jt10000.com
****************************

Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman said:

RB said:

We just bought my wife a 10speed. What is the technique for smooth
shifting, both up and down ratios?

Start here: <http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gears.html>.

Has anyone even made 10-speed bikes in the last 20 years? Even most
low-end LBS bikes in the early 1980's had 6-speed freewheels.

Think Campy Record 10 speed, Shimano Dura-Ace 10 speed, etc.Alot of
this stuff has "10 Speed" plastered all over the place, not to mention
the "10 speed" sales spiel at the LBS.

Quoted message said:

Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman said:

RB said:

We just bought my wife a 10speed. What is the technique for smooth
shifting, both up and down ratios?

Start here: <http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gears.html>.

Has anyone even made 10-speed bikes in the last 20 years? Even most
low-end LBS bikes in the early 1980's had 6-speed freewheels.

Think Campy Record 10 speed, Shimano Dura-Ace 10 speed, etc.Alot of
this stuff has "10 Speed" plastered all over the place, not to mention
the "10 speed" sales spiel at the LBS.

I was thinking back to the 1970's, when "10-speed" was used as a
synonym for "drop handlebar road bike".

--
Tom Sherman - Here, not there.

[email hidden] wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

John Forrest Tomlinson said:

wvantwiller said:

John Forrest Tomlinson <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

> On Sat, 14 Oct 2006 16:42:05 -0400, wvantwiller
> <[email hidden]> wrote:
>
>>I'd add practice to raise
>>your pedalling rate 80rpm to 90rpm
>
> Why?
>
Because it's a lot easier to recover from shifting too late when you
start out at a higher pedaling rate than being stuck with being
barely able to turn the pedals when you've waited too long to make a
shift. Especially when you consider the forces on the machinery that
you're probably trying to shift, the grip you have on the handlebars
to try and turn the pedals, the balance problem when you move one
hand to shift while applying that force to the pedals, and the fact
that you're probably losing speed all the while and approaching
tipover. If you lose enough speed in the entire divergent process
you might even start hunting with the steering to maintain balance,
and end up steering somewhere you really don't want to be.

Wow, I didn't realize all the dangers in shifting while pedalling
below 80rpm.

Dear John,

Wow, me too--I didn't realize that I was in danger of tipping over as
I shifted down from my usual 53x11 at around 60 rpm and 20-25 mph to
deal with the gentle climb on my daily ride at about 10 mph.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

Jeeze, maybe you two should lay off the caffine until you graduate from
Middle School?

Or, perhaps show some legitimate error in my post and followups?

wvantwiller said:

[email hidden] wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

John Forrest Tomlinson said:

On Sat, 14 Oct 2006 21:20:12 -0400, wvantwiller
<[email hidden]> wrote:

>John Forrest Tomlinson <[email hidden]> wrote in
>news:[email hidden]:
>
>> On Sat, 14 Oct 2006 16:42:05 -0400, wvantwiller
>> <[email hidden]> wrote:
>>
>>>I'd add practice to raise
>>>your pedalling rate 80rpm to 90rpm
>>
>> Why?
>>
>Because it's a lot easier to recover from shifting too late when you
>start out at a higher pedaling rate than being stuck with being
>barely able to turn the pedals when you've waited too long to make a
>shift. Especially when you consider the forces on the machinery that
>you're probably trying to shift, the grip you have on the handlebars
>to try and turn the pedals, the balance problem when you move one
>hand to shift while applying that force to the pedals, and the fact
>that you're probably losing speed all the while and approaching
>tipover. If you lose enough speed in the entire divergent process
>you might even start hunting with the steering to maintain balance,
>and end up steering somewhere you really don't want to be.

Wow, I didn't realize all the dangers in shifting while pedalling
below 80rpm.

Dear John,

Wow, me too--I didn't realize that I was in danger of tipping over as
I shifted down from my usual 53x11 at around 60 rpm and 20-25 mph to
deal with the gentle climb on my daily ride at about 10 mph.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

Jeeze, maybe you two should lay off the caffine until you graduate from
Middle School?

Or, perhaps show some legitimate error in my post and followups?

Dear W.,

Okay, I'll spell things out.

If we lay off the caffeine, our cadence might drop below 90 rpm and
we'd be "probably losing speed all the while and approaching
tipover" when we try to shift . . .

That might be an error in your post.

Or someone who tried to shift at only 80 rpm could "start hunting with
the steering to maintain balance, and end up steering somewhere you
really don't want to be."

That might be another error in your post.

Honest, it's not actually that desperate and dangerous to try to shift
a bicycle's gears below 90 rpm. I've been doing it successfully at
around 60 rpm for over 40 years. No tipover, no steering where I don't
want to be. Riders interested in endurance for long rides may find a
faster, lighter cadence useful, but not because of shifting problems.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

wvantwiller said:

[email hidden] wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

John Forrest Tomlinson said:

On Sat, 14 Oct 2006 21:20:12 -0400, wvantwiller
<[email hidden]> wrote:

>John Forrest Tomlinson <[email hidden]> wrote in
>news:[email hidden]:
>
>> On Sat, 14 Oct 2006 16:42:05 -0400, wvantwiller
>> <[email hidden]> wrote:
>>
>>>I'd add practice to raise
>>>your pedalling rate 80rpm to 90rpm
>>
>> Why?
>>
>Because it's a lot easier to recover from shifting too late when you
>start out at a higher pedaling rate than being stuck with being
>barely able to turn the pedals when you've waited too long to make a
>shift. Especially when you consider the forces on the machinery that
>you're probably trying to shift, the grip you have on the handlebars
>to try and turn the pedals, the balance problem when you move one
>hand to shift while applying that force to the pedals, and the fact
>that you're probably losing speed all the while and approaching
>tipover. If you lose enough speed in the entire divergent process
>you might even start hunting with the steering to maintain balance,
>and end up steering somewhere you really don't want to be.

Wow, I didn't realize all the dangers in shifting while pedalling
below 80rpm.

Dear John,

Wow, me too--I didn't realize that I was in danger of tipping over as
I shifted down from my usual 53x11 at around 60 rpm and 20-25 mph to
deal with the gentle climb on my daily ride at about 10 mph.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

Jeeze, maybe you two should lay off the caffine until you graduate from
Middle School?

It's kind of funny for someone who makes shifting the bike at lowish
rpms sound like risking disaster to talk to two other guys about
"laying off caffeine."

Quoted message said:

Or, perhaps show some legitimate error in my post and followups?

Shifting isn't that complicated. Lots of people do it just fine while
rolling rolling along at whatever pedalling rpm is comfortable to
them.

--
JT
****************************
Remove "remove" to reply
Visit http://www.jt10000.com
****************************

wvantwiller said:

Jeeze, maybe you two should lay off the caffine until you graduate from
Middle School?

When you finish middle school, maybe you will be able to spell caffeine.

--
Ted Bennett

wvantwiller said:

If you're not used to high pedalling rates, I'd add practice to raise
your pedalling rate 80rpm to 90rpm, and shift before you think you have
to going uphills, and after you think you have to going downhill (that
also helps you practice higher cadences). That should keep you in a
comfortable force band which should keep you from tiring quickly and
overstressing the legs.

I can ride further at 60 rpm than I can at 80 and on up. The most
tiring riding I ever did concentrated on spinning. Short rides, wiped
me out, needed extended recovery.

(snipped from here or another post)

I could ride "forever" at a target 60rpm and "never" get caught being
geared too high on a hill.

Quoted message said:

I recall seeing a couple riding their bikes this Summer on the same road
I use for part of my laps, and the husband just pounded away at low
pedalling rates while the wife kept her pedalling speed up. She always
had enough breath to say hello, while he was always tapped out after the
short 4% hill.

Doesn't mean a thing. --D-y

wvantwiller said:

Was I talking TO YOU or preaching AT YOU

Yes and now you're yelling at me.

Quoted message said:

If you didn't notice, I gave perfectly coherent and logical advice to
someone who obviously had a serious question about when to shift, and
apparently hadn't thought out the question before. It did nothing to
contradict the poster I added onto, and helped for a basis for a trial-
and-error method.

I don't think much of that paragraph is correct. Especially concerning
the OP; yes, a serious question, but he certainly "thought it out" far
enough to ask an intelligent beginner question. You ever meet a
beginner who thought he already knew it all? That's where the
"intelligent" part comes in...

Quoted message said:

There's little point to talking about 'when to shift' if you don't have a
target RPM TO AIM FOR IS THERE?

I don't have a cyclometer with RPM read on any of my bikes. Way down
the want list. I certainly don't shift with reference to a target RPM,
and I don't count RPM outside of Spin class, and then only when asked
to do so.

You want a beginner, who can be assumed to have no idea what 80 or
90rpms feels like, to be constantly counting RPM's out on the road
while contending with traffic, road hazards, etc?

Quoted message said:

You might as well talk about shifting a car with the end object being
DON'T STALL THE ENGINE. That's pointless advice for a car, and similarly
pointless for a biker.

There's a good parallel between stalling an engine and gear shifting on
a bicycle, having to do with force and load. IOW, you usually shift to
first to start out, so the load doesn't stall the engine.

Quoted message said:

If you're such an expert, why don't YOU offer some consistent advice
instead of just whinging on like some American Legion delegate obsessed
with Clinton winning the 1992 election or some Limosine Liberal preaching
about how Bush stole the 2000 election.

Clinton's real sin was winning the election "meant for" Bush I. You
left out the "u" in "limousine", understandable given the "phonetics"
involved; I think it's quite likely that Bush II did indeed steal the
2000 election, and the next one, too.

Good, sound advice on shifting, in answer to the OP's question, has
been covered I think three or four times incl. the latest post.

Quoted message said:

Seems like none of the puerile

Childish? Shoe, fit, wearing, and not "us", either.

Quoted message said:

responses posted here have presented any
concrete evidence that would make me retract any part of my original post
advising 80rpm to 90rpm as a good goal to shoot for when shifting.

How about if the OP's wife pedals comfortably at, say, 60 rpm, common
for beginners (and we are assuming; she could have millions of FG road
miles in the bank!). Should she then snap her cadence up to 90rpm every
time she shifts, up and down?

Quoted message said:

In
fact, most responders have offered no real guidance along any lines other
than pissing and moaning that I didn't consult all them first as
'experts'.

Accurate, pithy guidance, lots of experience, lots of peer
communication and agreement, if not a lot of posts.

Quoted message said:

And, I presented NOTHING as gospel, to be believed only on FAITH.

This is basic to your early post and your later reaction. Plainly,
90rpm *is* a matter of faith to you. Or, you could explain why *anyone*
would want to pedal at 90rpm... not, it's not "muscle fatigue" or
"saving the knees", both of which are faith-based arguments.

Quoted message said:

Gad, you're such a bunch of old ladies, hereabouts.

Besides being a misplaced remark in the context of this thread, I doubt
you would say that to certain of the faces hereabouts.

Quoted message said:

Between the
incessant ranting about helmets and the inevitable raving about car
drivers, it's getting so this newsgroup should be remaned
rec.bicycles.tech.rants&raves or rec.bicycles.tech.knickersinawad.

Threads are labled plainly. Helmets and MV drivers are not by any
stretch the bulk of business here, by thread count. Flame wars,
arguments are what they are. They're compartmented effectively while
normal general business, tech talk about bicycles, goes on.

Quoted message said:

If you want to show me how much you ALL know, present some intelligent
advice of your own. I see precious little to date on this thread.

I don't know about "all", but, in addition to the previously mentioned
effort-based "shift points" concept, easing foot pressure while
shifting, and the "keep it fun" advice, which is of primary importance
of course, I might find general agreement with "keep the bike tuned
up". Especially if the OP's wife's bike is new, the cable adjustment
might change with use, resulting in sloppy shifting or maybe worse.
Thus, many shops have a "free first tuneup" meant to encourage an early
return for adjustment. Good for fun and safety; might flatten out the
learning curve, too.

Could we have a "why" IRT 80 or 90rpm, besides muscle fatigue and knee
strain, if you have one?
--D-y