How to rescue ?

newsreader said:

Recently, I almost had a chance to rescue a swimmer ( 15 years old)
, but missed.
What happened was I planned to go to a beach and end up going to
another one a few hundred m. down the coastline.
The next day I learnt that a kid drowned 20 m. away from land while
I was swimming in the other beach. Two kids (13 and 14) tried to
get to the drowned kid but lost the kid at 3 or 4 m. away.
I weighed 150 lb and have been swimming for years. I was
absolutely sure that I can save the kid if I were at the other
beach, even if he went under before I get to him. I brought it
up at the local newsgroup. A comment came back which said if I am
not a trained life guard, I might get hurt myself. I did not
believe that for one second because there was hardly any waves at
the time of the accident.
With no intention of taking life saving course, I am sure I
would do it if it happned again.
My question is , what should I do when I get to a drowning
victim?
Any suggestion is appreciated.

I think the comment is correct. You might get hurt. A drowning person
in a state of panic can have superhuman strength. It really is
recommended to take a lifesaving course. Without a lifesaving course,
the next best thing to do is to first send someone else to call for a
lifeguard or emergency rescue person and then take some floating
object out to the victim and *push* it over to him. The red torpedo
buoys that beach lifeguards carry are the standard floatation device
used.

Unless you know what you are doing, don't hold onto the buoy when you
push it to a struggling victim, or he might climb up your arm and put
you in danger. If the buoy has a rope tied to one end, hold the other
end of the rope.

If there is surf, don't try to pull the victim into the beach unless
you know what you are doing. Bringing a non-swimmer in through surf is
difficult and dangerous. Wait for help to come.

If you don't have a floating object to take out to the victim, don't
approach a struggling victim unless you know what you are doing, or
unless you are a lot bigger than he is and a strong swimmer. If you
haven't had a lifesaving course, wait until he stops struggling.

There are ways to approach a struggling victim and subdue him, and
there are ways to escape from the grasp of a struggling victim, but
you should do a lifesaving course to learn these properly.

If the victim isn't struggling, he might be unconscious. You have to
administer resuscitation in the water. That's not easy to do either.

A lifesaving course is worth the time and expense.

Thanks, Martin,
That's very detailed advice.
Much appreciated.

newsreader said:

Thanks, Martin,
That's very detailed advice.
Much appreciated.

Years back my brother was a life guard. If a victim was fighting
wildly, they actually would pull him down.

A big burly security specialist where I worked went to save a nephew in
Melbourne Beach, FL, and he died saving him

I was about 12 years old and 80 some pounds when I tried to
rescue someone off the point at 75th street beach in
Chicago. She wisely put her hand on the top of my head to
push herself high enough for the lifeguard to see and rescue
her. No one ever saw me down below. I was so shaken by the
experience I went home. It was maybe 2 hours for the scene
to fade from my mind and I was back at the beach hopping and
jumping off the same rocks. I'm surprised I even remember it.

rtk

"newsreader" <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Recently, I almost had a chance to rescue a swimmer ( 15 years old)
, but missed.
What happened was I planned to go to a beach and end up going to
another one a few hundred m. down the coastline.
The next day I learnt that a kid drowned 20 m. away from land while
I was swimming in the other beach. Two kids (13 and 14) tried to
get to the drowned kid but lost the kid at 3 or 4 m. away.
I weighed 150 lb and have been swimming for years. I was
absolutely sure that I can save the kid if I were at the other
beach, even if he went under before I get to him. I brought it
up at the local newsgroup. A comment came back which said if I am
not a trained life guard, I might get hurt myself. I did not
believe that for one second because there was hardly any waves at
the time of the accident.
With no intention of taking life saving course, I am sure I
would do it if it happned again.
My question is , what should I do when I get to a drowning
victim?
Any suggestion is appreciated.

As a former lifeguard I second the above comment;
in fact the statistics for a swimmer drowning or otherwise being injured
are really high when they were trying to assist a non- or poor swimmer.

Someone in trouble in the water will panic, the most common behavior is
what I have alwaysd known as "climbing the ladder". This is a very
ineffective motion of reaching with the arms and thrusting with the feet
-- should this swimmer in need come in contact with ANYTHING that can
help get their head above the water, even for a moment, they will use
it.

This is often the well meaning friend, aunt, or bystander that tries to
help and thinks becuase they outweigh the person 2:1 they will be okay.
Not so. Lifeguards are trained in several facets that are not only
offensive taks and drills to get someone out of the water, but defensive
to get away from someone in the water.

Given you are not trained, have no equipment (buoy, can, etc.) but
honestly believe you could save a life I will give you some basic
pointers.

The first rule of being a rescuer is to not become a victim; never enter
a situation where your well-meaning intentions will result in you also
being a victim.

Now is probably the time to become acquainted with the second most
important rule: most panicking victims can be "tricked" into rescueing
themselves. Approach them and as tehy lunge towards you, retreat towards
shore - or parallel to escape a rip current.

Thirdly, an active victim (one that is panicking) will eventually become
a passive victim. This is not a joke, but truth; if a person is
panicking and taking on water they will eventually pass out (they don't
just sink to the water instantly like in movies). At this point you can
safely approach and tow the person while maintaining an airway.

Waves are certinaly a factor, but there are many drownings in lakes or
other calm-water areas every year. I have outlined the very raw basics
becuase you stated you are adamantly against enrolling in a course, but
also have some illusion of grandeur that you would have saved the child.
I hope that you are never in that situation without proper training and
PRACTICE. Lifeguards do not just sit around all day, they run drills and
practice their skills. No scenario is identical and a Lifeguard must
daily make decisions about whether the scene is safe to enter and the
best options.

Be smart, be safe

Quoted message said:

As a former lifeguard I second the above comment;
in fact the statistics for a swimmer drowning or otherwise being injured
are really high when they were trying to assist a non- or poor swimmer.

Someone in trouble in the water will panic, the most common behavior is
what I have alwaysd known as "climbing the ladder". This is a very
ineffective motion of reaching with the arms and thrusting with the feet
-- should this swimmer in need come in contact with ANYTHING that can
help get their head above the water, even for a moment, they will use
it.

This is often the well meaning friend, aunt, or bystander that tries to
help and thinks becuase they outweigh the person 2:1 they will be okay.
Not so. Lifeguards are trained in several facets that are not only
offensive taks and drills to get someone out of the water, but defensive
to get away from someone in the water.

Given you are not trained, have no equipment (buoy, can, etc.) but
honestly believe you could save a life I will give you some basic
pointers.

The first rule of being a rescuer is to not become a victim; never enter
a situation where your well-meaning intentions will result in you also
being a victim.

Now is probably the time to become acquainted with the second most
important rule: most panicking victims can be "tricked" into rescueing
themselves. Approach them and as tehy lunge towards you, retreat towards
shore - or parallel to escape a rip current.

Thirdly, an active victim (one that is panicking) will eventually become
a passive victim. This is not a joke, but truth; if a person is
panicking and taking on water they will eventually pass out (they don't
just sink to the water instantly like in movies). At this point you can
safely approach and tow the person while maintaining an airway.

Waves are certinaly a factor, but there are many drownings in lakes or
other calm-water areas every year. I have outlined the very raw basics
becuase you stated you are adamantly against enrolling in a course, but
also have some illusion of grandeur that you would have saved the child.
I hope that you are never in that situation without proper training and
PRACTICE. Lifeguards do not just sit around all day, they run drills and
practice their skills. No scenario is identical and a Lifeguard must
daily make decisions about whether the scene is safe to enter and the
best options.

Be smart, be safe

Thanks for taking the time to write this post. I have learned a lot from it.

Pat in TX

Beach Runner <[email hidden]> wrote in news:W6xWf.81778$_c.45748
@tornado.tampabay.rr.com:

Quoted message said:

newsreader said:

Thanks, Martin,
That's very detailed advice.
Much appreciated.

Years back my brother was a life guard. If a victim was fighting
wildly, they actually would pull him down.

I just realized upon re-reading that the above is ambiguous.
Did the LifeGuard pull a fighting victim under? That is get the "active
victim" to be a "passive victim" more quickly?

Or were you pointing out that a panicked person would not think once, let
alone twice, about using another person to try and get out of the water.
The victim would more likely "push" a would-be rescuer under the water in
such an attempt, versus being under water and reaching up to pull the
would-be rescuer below the water's surface.

Quoted message said:

A big burly security specialist where I worked went to save a nephew in
Melbourne Beach, FL, and he died saving him

All too common and sad for those that survive at such a cost.

Thanks to everybody for all the constructive suggestions ,
especially to people speaking from experience. I would not have
believed it any other way of how an experienced swimmer of 150
lbs can be out-muscled or hurt by one of about 90.
Thanks again.

Steph said:

Beach Runner <[email hidden]> wrote in news:W6xWf.81778$_c.45748
@tornado.tampabay.rr.com:

Quoted message said:

newsreader said:

Thanks, Martin,
That's very detailed advice.
Much appreciated.

Years back my brother was a life guard. If a victim was fighting
wildly, they actually would pull him down.

I just realized upon re-reading that the above is ambiguous.
Did the LifeGuard pull a fighting victim under? That is get the "active
victim" to be a "passive victim" more quickly?

Yes, when attacked when saving someone they were taught to pull them
down to get them to let go of them and render them able to be safely saved.

Quoted message said:

Or were you pointing out that a panicked person would not think once, let
alone twice, about using another person to try and get out of the water.
The victim would more likely "push" a would-be rescuer under the water in
such an attempt, versus being under water and reaching up to pull the
would-be rescuer below the water's surface.

Quoted message said:

A big burly security specialist where I worked went to save a nephew in
Melbourne Beach, FL, and he died saving him

All too common and sad for those that survive at such a cost.

Beach Runner <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Steph said:

Beach Runner <[email hidden]> wrote in news:W6xWf.81778$_c.45748
@tornado.tampabay.rr.com:

Quoted message said:

newsreader wrote:

>Thanks, Martin,
> That's very detailed advice.
>Much appreciated.
>

Years back my brother was a life guard. If a victim was fighting
wildly, they actually would pull him down.

I just realized upon re-reading that the above is ambiguous.
Did the LifeGuard pull a fighting victim under? That is get the
"active victim" to be a "passive victim" more quickly?

Yes, when attacked when saving someone they were taught to pull them
down to get them to let go of them and render them able to be safely
saved.

Small difference is either his training or relaying the training to you
from mine. I was taught to be defensive, and not offensive. I would not
want to risk increasing any injuries.
My teachings were to escape you would submerge YOURSELF, usually the
victim would let go rather than follow you underwater. There are also
some methods for twisting free which after some practice are very simple.

Above all though the easiest method is to approach someone and stay out
of reach forcing them to "rescue themsleves" by lunging for you as you
continue to move to shallow water or out of the rip current.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Or were you pointing out that a panicked person would not think once,
let alone twice, about using another person to try and get out of the
water. The victim would more likely "push" a would-be rescuer under
the water in such an attempt, versus being under water and reaching
up to pull the would-be rescuer below the water's surface.

Quoted message said:

A big burly security specialist where I worked went to save a nephew
in Melbourne Beach, FL, and he died saving him

All too common and sad for those that survive at such a cost.

Quoted message said:

My teachings were to escape you would submerge YOURSELF, usually the
victim would let go rather than follow you underwater. There are also
some methods for twisting free which after some practice are very simple.

Don't stop there! Tell us the ways to get free of some panicked swimmer
(besides punching the guy in the nose).

Pat

Pat in TX said:

Quoted message said:

My teachings were to escape you would submerge YOURSELF, usually the
victim would let go rather than follow you underwater. There are also
some methods for twisting free which after some practice are very simple.

Don't stop there! Tell us the ways to get free of some panicked swimmer
(besides punching the guy in the nose).

It depends on how you are grabbed, but if you are grabbed by a
panicked swimmer, you won't be able to punch him in the nose.

Generally speeaking, there are two ways you can be grabbed, the front
"bear hug" kind of grab, or the rear "strangle hold" kind.

If you are grabbed from the front with a bear hug, get a breath as
soon as you see what is coming and tuck your chin. Then sink. Sinking
will often induce the victim to release you and continue struggling.
If not, grab the victim's waist with both hands and push it directly
away from your body. This should give you enough freedom to pull your
head down and out of the victim's grasp.

If you are grabbed from behind, again take a breath and tuck your chin
as soon as you know what is happening. This may not be possible in
this case, and you might be caught in a choke hold. Don't panic. Sink.
Again, sinking might be enough to induce the victim to release you.
But don't wait for that to happen. Determin which of the victim's arms
is lower than the other around your neck (I think you want the lower
of the two). Grab that arm at the elbow. With your other hand, grab
the top of the wrist of the same, lower arm. Now you are grasping one
of the victim's arms, with one hand at the elbow, and the other hand
on top of the wrist. Simultaneously, push up on the elbow and pull
down on the wrist. Use all your strength suddenly on this move. It is
difficult for the victim to counter this move. Once you have broken
the strangle hold, release the elbow but maintain your hold on the
wrist. Duck behind the victim, pulling the wrist behind the victim's
back and up.

What you do next in both cases depends on whether you want to continue
trying to rescue the victim or just get away. You probably should just
get away and wait until the victim stops struggling.

Martin Smith <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Pat in TX said:

Quoted message said:

My teachings were to escape you would submerge YOURSELF, usually the
victim would let go rather than follow you underwater. There are
also some methods for twisting free which after some practice are
very simple.

Don't stop there! Tell us the ways to get free of some panicked
swimmer (besides punching the guy in the nose).

It depends on how you are grabbed, but if you are grabbed by a
panicked swimmer, you won't be able to punch him in the nose.

Generally speeaking, there are two ways you can be grabbed, the front
"bear hug" kind of grab, or the rear "strangle hold" kind.

If you are grabbed from the front with a bear hug, get a breath as
soon as you see what is coming and tuck your chin. Then sink. Sinking
will often induce the victim to release you and continue struggling.
If not, grab the victim's waist with both hands and push it directly
away from your body. This should give you enough freedom to pull your
head down and out of the victim's grasp.

If you are grabbed from behind, again take a breath and tuck your chin
as soon as you know what is happening. This may not be possible in
this case, and you might be caught in a choke hold. Don't panic. Sink.
Again, sinking might be enough to induce the victim to release you.
But don't wait for that to happen. Determin which of the victim's arms
is lower than the other around your neck (I think you want the lower
of the two). Grab that arm at the elbow. With your other hand, grab
the top of the wrist of the same, lower arm. Now you are grasping one
of the victim's arms, with one hand at the elbow, and the other hand
on top of the wrist. Simultaneously, push up on the elbow and pull
down on the wrist. Use all your strength suddenly on this move. It is
difficult for the victim to counter this move. Once you have broken
the strangle hold, release the elbow but maintain your hold on the
wrist. Duck behind the victim, pulling the wrist behind the victim's
back and up.

What you do next in both cases depends on whether you want to continue
trying to rescue the victim or just get away. You probably should just
get away and wait until the victim stops struggling.

Well relayed Martin, and thankfully too; I have had too many typos
recently and didn't want to type out the above :-))