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In article said:Quoted message said:IMO, the video is helpful to mentally grasp the technique, but it is chock
full of drills that may require some coaching to master. If you have any
type of body awareness, learning the method will be easier (not easy) than
if you are just a mindless runner. Ozzie advocates a similar yet different
approach called chirunning from Danny Dreyer.
http://www.chirunning.com
I'd check them both out IIWY.
I've been looking at chirunning since you recommend it. Searching
google shows a lot of Ozzy's posts and he gives good advice.
Unfortunately here in France the only thing available (via amazon.fr)
is the chirunning book. The chirunning DVD, and the pose book & DVD
are not available. So this is why I was hoping to get advice on the
DVD. Could I get the DVD and skip the book? From reading the
websites it sounds like I'd need both but that could just be clever
marketing. Oddly enough, I haven't found many posts in this group
that mention the DVDs. It's mostly the books.
I tried something today on my run. After warming up I started running
with a ball strike instead of my usual heel strike. I planned to only
do it for a minute or two (per the advice in the Runner's World Pose
article) but it went so easy and so smooth I didn't notice and 5
minutes went by! I went back to my normal heel strike but it was too
late. Now this evening my right calf is very sore! I am anxious for
it to heal up so I can give it another try (but only for a 1-2
minutes.
-Michael
Michael,
I just checked out Dr. Romanov's web site. Looks like the book and DVD cost $34.95 and $49.95 respectively at posetech.com. Danny's book and DVD when purchased together are $47.95 at chirunning.com. Which ever you decide, I'd start with the DVD. My bias from 25+ years of running and coaching thousands of people leans toward chirunning. It makes more sense to me.
Regarding marketing ploy, most people don't know that the hardest part of teaching a running program based on personal contact, books and DVD's is running the business. I would assure you that Dr. Romanov and Danny Dreyer and the people who have aligned with their training and teaching methods have committed themselves largely out of a commitment to a concept in which they believe and want to share with others.
If the money comes, it is because there are people with good business sense behind the scenes who "run" the business with good processes and procedures, have committed people, and maintain the profit margins that allow them to grow or reinvest to get better and more efficient at what they do.
There is always a vested interest when it comes to making a living. For me the main focus is what will assist people to reach their potential and sustain in for years to come with minimal or no injury.
How do we regain the running body that we enjoyed unconsciously when we were children. To me it's regaining as adults what we had as children ran to run, then lost it along the way. Goethe's statement: Life is the childhood of our immortality" says to me that we are never too old to reclaim consciously that freedom of a child's body moving through space. One can't run and skip and stay depressed. However there will be some people that choose to stay depressed and prove that running and skipping won't lighten their spirits.
I must admit that Danny's presentation parallels the training I've been teaching for 25 years. Danny's book is built on a foundation of 25 to 30 years of his running inquisitively and figuring what worked best for him. Then it was validated as he shared it with others and he and they saw the significant differences.
Technique to work out tight calves:
To massage out your calves check out www.mindfulness.com/of1.asp.
Yessis and Romanov bring a great deal of wisdom and experience to running with their focus on power and developing muscle strength. For me the issue is how can I run gracefully with minimal impact with each and every step especially when training people to run longer distances.
If I view the African runners with their numerous world records from 1500 meters to the marathon, there isn't the musculature of a sprinter. For me it is about gravity and how do I use it to run as fast as humanly possible over long and longer distances.
Everyone holds a piece of the truth, and for me where are the intersections between the various methods.
For years sometimes poorly and sometime well, I have shared the same message about running mindfully and showing people that with proper form and style, they can reduce their marathon times by 30 minutes to an hour with the same amount of training.
What I am for is about helping people run correctly. I don't need to be right. That is the reason I call what I share folklore. If it works use it. If it doesn't find someone whose folklore works for you. Or if you can't find someone, create your own folklore. Then come back and share with me the other person's folklore or your own folklore so that I can learn where we intersect and can grow from another's knowledge, experience and practice.
Exercise to experience the ease of running (Moving slow to move fast)
Play with just standing in place and lifting your feet off the ground without moving your body up and down. You land midsole or ball instantly followed by the heel. If you do these quick steps without lifting or bouncing up which means you're not using your calves, you notice that if you continue to lift your feet rapidly and lean(an erect body with a forward lean from the ankle) a quarter of an inch from the ankles, you're still lifting your feet up and down, however your body is moving forward without any effort or any kind of push off or paw back.
If you keep the quick cadence and keep it constant, you'll realize that you are maintaining the same cadence and the further you lean with an erect body that is leaning from the ankle, the faster you go...and it's still the same cadence. You now are circling your foot, and lower leg faster to get it back on the ground,...and you're still maintaining the same cadence.
In health and on the run,
Ozzie Gontang
Director, San Diego Marathon Clinic, est. 1975
Maintainer - rec.running FAQ
http://www.faqs.org/faqs/running-faq/
Mindful Running:
http://www.mindfulness.com/mr.asp
Michael,
I'm adding Bob's last comments to carry the dialogue forward in this thread. Again it's about creating images and pictures that one can visualize and apply, practice, experience and further personalize to refine one's own experience of what started in words or pictures.
If nothing else, rec.running is a place for feedback. One must decide who adds value with their sharing and who distracts. Luckily one of our human gifts and capabilities is the ability to distinguish between what is helpful and what is not.
What I like about Bob is his continual search for the intersection where all can learn from each other:
Heel running for me is hitting on the back of the heel of the shoe. If one is running and landing on the heel of the foot, they will be landing close to midsole. And as Bob says below: "have your center of gravity (COG) always traveling directly over your base of support (BOS) (lead foot). So the foot descends and lands coincident with the timing of your COG traveling over it."
Bob Schroedter wrote:
"Your calf is sore because you were doing exactly what you said, strike first
on the ball of your foot. Sadly, this is neither Pose nor Chi, but rather, a
short route to the sports doc with a calf strain. The GOAL is not to land on
the ball of your foot and eliminate ANY heel contact, but rather have your
center of gravity (COG) always traveling directly over your base of support
(BOS) (lead foot). So the foot descends and lands coincident with the timing
of your COG traveling over it. Your foot should not strike on the heel, like
you may be accustomed, but it shouldn't contact on the ball, either. You'll
read frequently that people describe it as ball-heel-ball running, named
after the sequence of loading structures, but even this is incorrect because
this would place to great of an eccentric force on the soleus for
deceleration and control."
"An image you can think of is to imagine that instead of feet you have
rounded teflon stubs with a one inch square piece of tread in the bottom
center. Your goal is to land directly onto this tread with the swing foot
(forward one), and once making contact spend as little time possible on the
ground before employing hamstrings to intiate knee flexion. If you land on
either side of the tread, because you are overstriding, or conversely,
understriding (and therefore falling uncontrollably forward), then imagine
that you will lose balance (because the stubs are made of teflon) and slip.
Remember what the GOAL from above is."
'Like I said, it requires body awareness and maybe some outside coaching.
Good luck and no more ball running!!!"
