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How To Handle A Read

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Road Cycling
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11 October 2004
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Taylor
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  1. How To Handle A Read

    by Angela Gardner
    Source: http://www.cdspub.com

    You've just spent hours shaving, putting on make up and slipping into
    your nicest conservative daytime outfit. You've primped, plucked and
    powdered. You top it off with your sexy new lipstick, take a final
    look in the mirror at the gorgeous, passable woman there and climb
    into your car. As you drive to your objective for the day, perhaps a
    trip to a friendly store, a walk through a distant mall or dinner
    with a friend. You feel confident and feminine. The jangled nerves of
    getting to the car and out of your neighborhood are beginning to
    settle down.

    Then, as you wait at a red light with your hands on the wheel in your
    most graceful pose, you hear an ominous sound. A strange cackling and
    hooting is coming from the car next to your or behind you or across
    the intersection. Yes... you've just been read.

    At this point, most of us are more than a little red at being read.
    No one likes to feel that she wasted two or three hours of
    preparation time spent that day, not mention the hours and hours of
    perfecting her feminine ways in the past years just to be read by the
    first carload of cretins to drive by. How do you deal with being
    read? What should you do and what shouldn't you do.

    You should try not to hide. Get away from the area certainly, but
    don't hide. That only draws more attention to yourself. Lying down on
    the car seat or jumping behind a bush may seem Iike the only thing to
    do, but it is not something a real woman would do. The act of hiding
    will only confirm the reader's assessment of your gender. Move away
    from them with dignity. As for their derision, take it until you can
    move away.

    The words "take it" really sum up what your attitude must be. If a
    group of immature jerks were laughing and pointing at a woman, she
    might wonder what they were so excited about, but she would not do
    anything other than ignore them. There is nothing you can do to
    convince your tormentors that you are a real woman or that they
    should pick up a dictionary and learn the meaning of the
    word "tolerance." If they decide you are a man in drag, all you can
    do is not react and hope to leave them with some doubts. Try to
    appear as if you don't know they even exist. Look straight ahead,
    play with the radio or study your manicure. Don't get aggressive
    yourself. Don't make obscene gestures or tell them what you think of
    their manners or parentage. That type of response could make you a
    candidate for plastic surgery, even if you didn't need it before. Of
    course, you could adopt a belligerent attitude if you packed a .357
    Magnum in your purse, but we get enough bad image stuff from TV-
    killers in the movies. Besides, it isn't ladylike!

    To some, it may sound sexist to insist on your acting passive.
    Passive worked for Gandhi. Give it a try. Granted, there are women
    who would not take the kind of harassment you might be subjected to,
    but one of them is not there to help you out. Violent responses will
    not help you or change your tormentor's attitude. It's a lot more
    embarrassing to be in the emergency room of a hospital with a ripped
    dress, torn stockings and fat lip than it is to take a little abuse
    while remaining dignified and demure.

    What does it mean to be read? Not all reads are as raucous as the
    example I've just used. Sometimes you will be in a public place and
    you will see someone's lips move in the "That's a man!" pattern. What
    do you do about that? Well, you're most likely not facing any
    physical danger so what's the big deal~ You've just entertained a
    bored housewife or an accountant whose idea of excitement is a new
    calculator. Ignore them. Go on about your business and continue to
    act like a woman. You will stop being a novelty if you just continue
    to do what you were doing. If they absolutely won't stop staring, try
    staring back and smiling! Most likely they will turn away and try to
    ignore you.

    If you're going to be read at all, the nicest way is to hear someone
    whisper, "That's a man?" The question in their voice lets you know
    that all though they suspect you're not exactly what you appear to
    be, your beauty and poise have left large doubts in their minds. Of
    course, any read, even the nicest ones, can be a pain. What should
    you do afterward? Do you drive home, rip off your wig (if you are
    wearing one, please check beforehand), wash off your make-up, and vow
    never to indulge in this humiliating behavior again? Of course not!
    That impulse, like the urge to hide, will get you nowhere. For every
    read you detect, there are a few you are not aware of at all. There
    are also hundreds of people who see you on your public outings and
    hove no idea that you are anything but what you appear to be. Don't
    let being read discourage you. No one passes all of the time. As long
    as we only cross the gender line a few times each month, there will
    always be something masculine about us that, from the right angle, in
    the right place, to the wrong person, will give us away.

    What's important is your attitude. You have as much right to be where
    you are, dressed as you choose, as anyone else in the place. Ninety
    percent of the time, if you look and act relaxed, as- if you belong
    there, you will pass. don't worry about the other ten percent. As
    long as people who notice don't think it's their duty to rearrange
    your body parts, then don't let their attention bother you.

    Another component of passing that is hard to gauge is the 'getting
    away with it' factor. Many members of the general public are
    perceptive enough to notice that there is something wrong with this
    picture, but they have manners, breeding, style or they're just too
    apathetic to care. The point is, don't worry about what they think.
    Project the image you want to the best of your ability and enjoy
    yourself. Use discretion about where you go and how you dress. Look
    appropriate and stay relaxed. It's' up to you to make your outings a
    fun time that can help you grow personally. Try to remove the anxiety
    from the experience and enjoy!

    ----------------------------------------------------

    More CD tips and tricks are online this
    week we invite you to invite others to join
    us at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/drdonnasupport/

    ----------------------------------------------------

    ---
    Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
    Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
    Version: 6.0.760 / Virus Database: 509 - Release Date: 9/10/2004

  2. REPUBLICAN WARMONGERS

    Dennis Hastert: did not serve.
    Tom Delay: did not serve.
    Roy Blunt: did not serve.
    Bill Frist: did not serve.
    Mitch McConnell: did not serve.
    Rick Santorum: did not serve.
    Trent Lott: did not serve.
    [censored] Cheney: did not serve.
    John Ashcroft: did not serve.
    Jeb Bush: did not serve.
    Karl Rove: did not serve.
    Saxby Chambliss: did not serve.
    Vin Weber: did not serve.
    Richard Perle: did not serve.
    Douglas Feith: did not serve.
    Eliot Abrams: did not serve.
    Richard Shelby: did not serve.
    Jon Kyl: did not serve.
    Tim Hutchison: did not serve.
    Christopher Cox: did not serve.
    Newt Gingrich: did not serve.
    Phil Gramm: did not serve.
    Dana Rohrabacher: did not serve.
    John M. McHugh: did not serve.
    J C Watts: did not serve.
    Jack Kemp: did not serve.
    Rudy Giuliani: did not serve.
    George Pataki: did not serve.
    Spencer Abraham: did not serve.
    John Engler: did not serve.
    Arnold Schwarzenegger: did not serve.
    Antonin Scalia: did not serve.
    Clarence Thomas: did not serve
    "Taylor" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    How To Handle A Read

    by Angela Gardner
    Source: http://www.cdspub.com

    You've just spent hours shaving, putting on make up and slipping into
    your nicest conservative daytime outfit. You've primped, plucked and
    powdered. You top it off with your sexy new lipstick, take a final
    look in the mirror at the gorgeous, passable woman there and climb
    into your car. As you drive to your objective for the day, perhaps a
    trip to a friendly store, a walk through a distant mall or dinner
    with a friend. You feel confident and feminine. The jangled nerves of
    getting to the car and out of your neighborhood are beginning to
    settle down.

    Then, as you wait at a red light with your hands on the wheel in your
    most graceful pose, you hear an ominous sound. A strange cackling and
    hooting is coming from the car next to your or behind you or across
    the intersection. Yes... you've just been read.

    At this point, most of us are more than a little red at being read.
    No one likes to feel that she wasted two or three hours of
    preparation time spent that day, not mention the hours and hours of
    perfecting her feminine ways in the past years just to be read by the
    first carload of cretins to drive by. How do you deal with being
    read? What should you do and what shouldn't you do.

    You should try not to hide. Get away from the area certainly, but
    don't hide. That only draws more attention to yourself. Lying down on
    the car seat or jumping behind a bush may seem Iike the only thing to
    do, but it is not something a real woman would do. The act of hiding
    will only confirm the reader's assessment of your gender. Move away
    from them with dignity. As for their derision, take it until you can
    move away.

    The words "take it" really sum up what your attitude must be. If a
    group of immature jerks were laughing and pointing at a woman, she
    might wonder what they were so excited about, but she would not do
    anything other than ignore them. There is nothing you can do to
    convince your tormentors that you are a real woman or that they
    should pick up a dictionary and learn the meaning of the
    word "tolerance." If they decide you are a man in drag, all you can
    do is not react and hope to leave them with some doubts. Try to
    appear as if you don't know they even exist. Look straight ahead,
    play with the radio or study your manicure. Don't get aggressive
    yourself. Don't make obscene gestures or tell them what you think of
    their manners or parentage. That type of response could make you a
    candidate for plastic surgery, even if you didn't need it before. Of
    course, you could adopt a belligerent attitude if you packed a .357
    Magnum in your purse, but we get enough bad image stuff from TV-
    killers in the movies. Besides, it isn't ladylike!

    To some, it may sound sexist to insist on your acting passive.
    Passive worked for Gandhi. Give it a try. Granted, there are women
    who would not take the kind of harassment you might be subjected to,
    but one of them is not there to help you out. Violent responses will
    not help you or change your tormentor's attitude. It's a lot more
    embarrassing to be in the emergency room of a hospital with a ripped
    dress, torn stockings and fat lip than it is to take a little abuse
    while remaining dignified and demure.

    What does it mean to be read? Not all reads are as raucous as the
    example I've just used. Sometimes you will be in a public place and
    you will see someone's lips move in the "That's a man!" pattern. What
    do you do about that? Well, you're most likely not facing any
    physical danger so what's the big deal~ You've just entertained a
    bored housewife or an accountant whose idea of excitement is a new
    calculator. Ignore them. Go on about your business and continue to
    act like a woman. You will stop being a novelty if you just continue
    to do what you were doing. If they absolutely won't stop staring, try
    staring back and smiling! Most likely they will turn away and try to
    ignore you.

    If you're going to be read at all, the nicest way is to hear someone
    whisper, "That's a man?" The question in their voice lets you know
    that all though they suspect you're not exactly what you appear to
    be, your beauty and poise have left large doubts in their minds. Of
    course, any read, even the nicest ones, can be a pain. What should
    you do afterward? Do you drive home, rip off your wig (if you are
    wearing one, please check beforehand), wash off your make-up, and vow
    never to indulge in this humiliating behavior again? Of course not!
    That impulse, like the urge to hide, will get you nowhere. For every
    read you detect, there are a few you are not aware of at all. There
    are also hundreds of people who see you on your public outings and
    hove no idea that you are anything but what you appear to be. Don't
    let being read discourage you. No one passes all of the time. As long
    as we only cross the gender line a few times each month, there will
    always be something masculine about us that, from the right angle, in
    the right place, to the wrong person, will give us away.

    What's important is your attitude. You have as much right to be where
    you are, dressed as you choose, as anyone else in the place. Ninety
    percent of the time, if you look and act relaxed, as- if you belong
    there, you will pass. don't worry about the other ten percent. As
    long as people who notice don't think it's their duty to rearrange
    your body parts, then don't let their attention bother you.

    Another component of passing that is hard to gauge is the 'getting
    away with it' factor. Many members of the general public are
    perceptive enough to notice that there is something wrong with this
    picture, but they have manners, breeding, style or they're just too
    apathetic to care. The point is, don't worry about what they think.
    Project the image you want to the best of your ability and enjoy
    yourself. Use discretion about where you go and how you dress. Look
    appropriate and stay relaxed. It's' up to you to make your outings a
    fun time that can help you grow personally. Try to remove the anxiety
    from the experience and enjoy!

    ----------------------------------------------------

    More CD tips and tricks are online this
    week we invite you to invite others to join
    us at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/drdonnasupport/

    ----------------------------------------------------

    ---
    Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
    Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
    Version: 6.0.760 / Virus Database: 509 - Release Date: 9/10/2004

  3. You forget - John Kerry - received a less than honorable discharge and was
    hiding it since 1973. Finally Bill Clinton gave him an "honorable discharge"
    and it finally worked it's way through in 2001. That's why Kerry hasn't and
    won't release his records.

    Also, apparently there's one of those Kerry-made home movies that shows him
    and his VVAW buddies all standing there and peeing on an American flag which
    they then burn. It was shown in Massachusetts for his last Senate race but
    none of the networks would show it. But perhaps it will get a re-airing now.

    John Edwards - did not serve - he didn't like the living standards at that
    level.
    William Clinton - did not serve.

    "LastDance" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    REPUBLICAN WARMONGERS

    Dennis Hastert: did not serve.
    Tom Delay: did not serve.
    Roy Blunt: did not serve.
    Bill Frist: did not serve.
    Mitch McConnell: did not serve.
    Rick Santorum: did not serve.
    Trent Lott: did not serve.
    [censored] Cheney: did not serve.
    John Ashcroft: did not serve.
    Jeb Bush: did not serve.
    Karl Rove: did not serve.
    Saxby Chambliss: did not serve.
    Vin Weber: did not serve.
    Richard Perle: did not serve.
    Douglas Feith: did not serve.
    Eliot Abrams: did not serve.
    Richard Shelby: did not serve.
    Jon Kyl: did not serve.
    Tim Hutchison: did not serve.
    Christopher Cox: did not serve.
    Newt Gingrich: did not serve.
    Phil Gramm: did not serve.
    Dana Rohrabacher: did not serve.
    John M. McHugh: did not serve.
    J C Watts: did not serve.
    Jack Kemp: did not serve.
    Rudy Giuliani: did not serve.
    George Pataki: did not serve.
    Spencer Abraham: did not serve.
    John Engler: did not serve.
    Arnold Schwarzenegger: did not serve.
    Antonin Scalia: did not serve.
    Clarence Thomas: did not serve
    "Taylor" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    How To Handle A Read

    by Angela Gardner
    Source: http://www.cdspub.com

    You've just spent hours shaving, putting on make up and slipping into
    your nicest conservative daytime outfit. You've primped, plucked and
    powdered. You top it off with your sexy new lipstick, take a final
    look in the mirror at the gorgeous, passable woman there and climb
    into your car. As you drive to your objective for the day, perhaps a
    trip to a friendly store, a walk through a distant mall or dinner
    with a friend. You feel confident and feminine. The jangled nerves of
    getting to the car and out of your neighborhood are beginning to
    settle down.

    Then, as you wait at a red light with your hands on the wheel in your
    most graceful pose, you hear an ominous sound. A strange cackling and
    hooting is coming from the car next to your or behind you or across
    the intersection. Yes... you've just been read.

    At this point, most of us are more than a little red at being read.
    No one likes to feel that she wasted two or three hours of
    preparation time spent that day, not mention the hours and hours of
    perfecting her feminine ways in the past years just to be read by the
    first carload of cretins to drive by. How do you deal with being
    read? What should you do and what shouldn't you do.

    You should try not to hide. Get away from the area certainly, but
    don't hide. That only draws more attention to yourself. Lying down on
    the car seat or jumping behind a bush may seem Iike the only thing to
    do, but it is not something a real woman would do. The act of hiding
    will only confirm the reader's assessment of your gender. Move away
    from them with dignity. As for their derision, take it until you can
    move away.

    The words "take it" really sum up what your attitude must be. If a
    group of immature jerks were laughing and pointing at a woman, she
    might wonder what they were so excited about, but she would not do
    anything other than ignore them. There is nothing you can do to
    convince your tormentors that you are a real woman or that they
    should pick up a dictionary and learn the meaning of the
    word "tolerance." If they decide you are a man in drag, all you can
    do is not react and hope to leave them with some doubts. Try to
    appear as if you don't know they even exist. Look straight ahead,
    play with the radio or study your manicure. Don't get aggressive
    yourself. Don't make obscene gestures or tell them what you think of
    their manners or parentage. That type of response could make you a
    candidate for plastic surgery, even if you didn't need it before. Of
    course, you could adopt a belligerent attitude if you packed a .357
    Magnum in your purse, but we get enough bad image stuff from TV-
    killers in the movies. Besides, it isn't ladylike!

    To some, it may sound sexist to insist on your acting passive.
    Passive worked for Gandhi. Give it a try. Granted, there are women
    who would not take the kind of harassment you might be subjected to,
    but one of them is not there to help you out. Violent responses will
    not help you or change your tormentor's attitude. It's a lot more
    embarrassing to be in the emergency room of a hospital with a ripped
    dress, torn stockings and fat lip than it is to take a little abuse
    while remaining dignified and demure.

    What does it mean to be read? Not all reads are as raucous as the
    example I've just used. Sometimes you will be in a public place and
    you will see someone's lips move in the "That's a man!" pattern. What
    do you do about that? Well, you're most likely not facing any
    physical danger so what's the big deal~ You've just entertained a
    bored housewife or an accountant whose idea of excitement is a new
    calculator. Ignore them. Go on about your business and continue to
    act like a woman. You will stop being a novelty if you just continue
    to do what you were doing. If they absolutely won't stop staring, try
    staring back and smiling! Most likely they will turn away and try to
    ignore you.

    If you're going to be read at all, the nicest way is to hear someone
    whisper, "That's a man?" The question in their voice lets you know
    that all though they suspect you're not exactly what you appear to
    be, your beauty and poise have left large doubts in their minds. Of
    course, any read, even the nicest ones, can be a pain. What should
    you do afterward? Do you drive home, rip off your wig (if you are
    wearing one, please check beforehand), wash off your make-up, and vow
    never to indulge in this humiliating behavior again? Of course not!
    That impulse, like the urge to hide, will get you nowhere. For every
    read you detect, there are a few you are not aware of at all. There
    are also hundreds of people who see you on your public outings and
    hove no idea that you are anything but what you appear to be. Don't
    let being read discourage you. No one passes all of the time. As long
    as we only cross the gender line a few times each month, there will
    always be something masculine about us that, from the right angle, in
    the right place, to the wrong person, will give us away.

    What's important is your attitude. You have as much right to be where
    you are, dressed as you choose, as anyone else in the place. Ninety
    percent of the time, if you look and act relaxed, as- if you belong
    there, you will pass. don't worry about the other ten percent. As
    long as people who notice don't think it's their duty to rearrange
    your body parts, then don't let their attention bother you.

    Another component of passing that is hard to gauge is the 'getting
    away with it' factor. Many members of the general public are
    perceptive enough to notice that there is something wrong with this
    picture, but they have manners, breeding, style or they're just too
    apathetic to care. The point is, don't worry about what they think.
    Project the image you want to the best of your ability and enjoy
    yourself. Use discretion about where you go and how you dress. Look
    appropriate and stay relaxed. It's' up to you to make your outings a
    fun time that can help you grow personally. Try to remove the anxiety
    from the experience and enjoy!

  4. "Tom Kunich" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    You forget - John Kerry - received a less than honorable discharge and was
    hiding it since 1973. Finally Bill Clinton gave him an "honorable discharge"
    and it finally worked it's way through in 2001. That's why Kerry hasn't and
    won't release his records.

    Do you have proof that Kerry received a less than honorable discharge?
    Here's what the Viet Nam Veterans Against Kerry Web site says:

    "In October 1969, while Kerry was still on active duty assigned to
    Admiral Schlech, Kerry was flying Adam Walinsky (Robert F. Kennedy's
    former speech writer), around New York state to deliver anti-war
    speeches.
    BY Jan. 3, 1970, Kerry had become so inspired by Walinsky's anti-war
    beliefs that he petitioned Admiral Schlech, "to tell his boss that his
    conscientious (sic)dictated that he protest the war, that he wanted
    out of the Navy immediately so that he could run for congress."
    Admiral Schlech consented and Kerry received an honorable discharge
    from the Navy six months early."

    [censored] Durbin

  5. Quoted message said:

    From: [email hidden] ([censored] Durbin)

    Quoted message said:

    Here's what the Viet Nam Veterans Against Kerry Web site says:

    "In October 1969, while Kerry was still on active duty assigned to
    Admiral Schlech, Kerry was flying Adam Walinsky (Robert F. Kennedy's
    former speech writer), around New York state to deliver anti-war
    speeches.
    BY Jan. 3, 1970, Kerry had become so inspired by Walinsky's anti-war
    beliefs that he petitioned Admiral Schlech, "to tell his boss that his
    conscientious (sic)dictated that he protest the war, that he wanted
    out of the Navy immediately so that he could run for congress."
    Admiral Schlech consented and Kerry received an honorable discharge
    from the Navy six months early."

    [censored] Durbin

    Getting an early discharge at their convenience used to be pretty common and
    indicates nothing negative. I got mine moved up from 2 Jan to Dec 20. Just a
    couple of days but it made for a no stress holiday as we arranged everything a
    couple of weeks.
    Kerry did his time, took advantage of what he could, seems to have been a
    barracks lawyer, none of that is unusual and it comes down to he did his job.
    Bill C

  6. (TritonRider) said:
    Quoted message said:

    From: [email hidden] ([censored] Durbin)

    Quoted message said:

    Here's what the Viet Nam Veterans Against Kerry Web site says:

    "In October 1969, while Kerry was still on active duty assigned to
    Admiral Schlech, Kerry was flying Adam Walinsky (Robert F. Kennedy's
    former speech writer), around New York state to deliver anti-war
    speeches.
    BY Jan. 3, 1970, Kerry had become so inspired by Walinsky's anti-war
    beliefs that he petitioned Admiral Schlech, "to tell his boss that his
    conscientious (sic)dictated that he protest the war, that he wanted
    out of the Navy immediately so that he could run for congress."
    Admiral Schlech consented and Kerry received an honorable discharge
    from the Navy six months early."

    [censored] Durbin

    Getting an early discharge at their convenience used to be pretty common and
    indicates nothing negative. I got mine moved up from 2 Jan to Dec 20. Just a
    couple of days but it made for a no stress holiday as we arranged everything a
    couple of weeks.
    Kerry did his time, took advantage of what he could, seems to have been a
    barracks lawyer, none of that is unusual and it comes down to he did his job.

    I can't believe I'm getting drawn into poltiical discussion, but to
    follow up on what Bill has said, as a voter I've got no problem with
    rich powerful guys like Bush or Kerry or anyone using some pull to
    avoid dangerous duty during a war like Vietnam. In the perfect world,
    that's not right, but it's understandable and if someone fessed up and
    says "I didn't believe in the war, so I avoided danger" or "I was
    scared, so I got out of it" I can accept that..

    I've got a big problem with people trying to equate the substantial
    service that Kerry did with the minimal service that Bush did. Or to
    equate reasonable questions about gaps in the data on Bush's service,
    and reasonable questions about Bush not reporting for a physical with
    trumped up questions about Kerry's service.

    Even if Kerry or someone did some exaggeration about the degree of
    danger Kerry was in, the service of these two guys in that war are
    orders of magnitude in differnce.

    JT

    ****************************
    Remove "remove" to reply
    Visit http://www.jt10000.com
    ****************************

  7. "[censored] Durbin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    "Tom Kunich" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    You forget - John Kerry - received a less than honorable discharge and
    was
    hiding it since 1973. Finally Bill Clinton gave him an "honorable
    discharge"
    and it finally worked it's way through in 2001. That's why Kerry hasn't
    and
    won't release his records.

    Do you have proof that Kerry received a less than honorable discharge?
    Here's what the Viet Nam Veterans Against Kerry Web site says:

    "In October 1969, while Kerry was still on active duty assigned to
    Admiral Schlech, Kerry was flying Adam Walinsky (Robert F. Kennedy's
    former speech writer), around New York state to deliver anti-war
    speeches.
    BY Jan. 3, 1970, Kerry had become so inspired by Walinsky's anti-war
    beliefs that he petitioned Admiral Schlech, "to tell his boss that his
    conscientious (sic)dictated that he protest the war, that he wanted
    out of the Navy immediately so that he could run for congress."
    Admiral Schlech consented and Kerry received an honorable discharge
    from the Navy six months early."

    If I remember correctly, you have to serve 5 years active and one year
    inactive from the time you graduation from OCS. Since that was sometime near
    the first of '68 I'm trying to figure how he could have had "only 6 months"
    left in 1970.

    It must be that new math.

  8. "John Forrest Tomlinson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    I can't believe I'm getting drawn into poltiical discussion, but to
    follow up on what Bill has said, as a voter I've got no problem with
    rich powerful guys like Bush or Kerry or anyone using some pull to
    avoid dangerous duty during a war like Vietnam. In the perfect world,
    that's not right, but it's understandable and if someone fessed up and
    says "I didn't believe in the war, so I avoided danger" or "I was
    scared, so I got out of it" I can accept that.

    What about "I had other plans so I avoided the service" followed by leading
    antiwar demonstrations in a foreign country and taking a trip to a communist
    country without any visable means of support and not remembering what he did
    there?

    Quoted message said:

    I've got a big problem with people trying to equate the substantial
    service that Kerry did with the minimal service that Bush did.

    I can think of about ten thousand guys who might want to punch you in the
    nose for telling them their service was "minimal". Or to put this into
    perspective - there were something like 18% fatalities for fighter pilots
    OUT OF COMBAT. Compare that to 18% for Army officers and quite a bit less
    for Naval officers.

    Quoted message said:

    equate reasonable questions about gaps in the data on Bush's service,
    and reasonable questions about Bush not reporting for a physical with
    trumped up questions about Kerry's service.

    John, you were never in the service so your ignorance about "military
    records" can be excused. Tell me something, would you be surprised to find
    out that the records of your 7th and 8th grade classes were lost? Who,
    exactly, do you suppose writes up the records?

    Quoted message said:

    Even if Kerry or someone did some exaggeration about the degree of
    danger Kerry was in, the service of these two guys in that

    And you are entirely incorrect in assumption. Fighter pilots in those early
    jets were short lived. The flight characteristics of them were often
    described as "a semi-controlled crash". Today's fighters are so far advanced
    that there's no comparison. If Bush were to have joined the Air Force he
    would have never been able to make it through the selection process to
    become an Air Force fighter pilot. The competition was so steep you can't
    believe it. The drop out rate was something like 90%. Bush did something
    that was incredibly smart for someone who is purported to have been a party
    boy - he joined the Air National Guard where his talents would give him a
    better chance at making fighter jock.

    My squadron commander started out an enlisted man, a tail gunner on B-29's.
    He got out after WW II and joined the guard where they made him a officer
    because of his combat experience. After he hit the rank of Major he rejoined
    the Air Force and eventually retired as General Hintz.

    The idea that somehow Bush's service isn't as honorable as anyone else's is
    a joke spoken by asses who don't know any better.

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/functions/print.php?StoryID=20041010-094332-2659r

  9. "Tom Kunich" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Do you have proof that Kerry received a less than honorable discharge?
    Here's what the Viet Nam Veterans Against Kerry Web site says:

    "In October 1969, while Kerry was still on active duty assigned to
    Admiral Schlech, Kerry was flying Adam Walinsky (Robert F. Kennedy's
    former speech writer), around New York state to deliver anti-war
    speeches.
    BY Jan. 3, 1970, Kerry had become so inspired by Walinsky's anti-war
    beliefs that he petitioned Admiral Schlech, "to tell his boss that his
    conscientious (sic)dictated that he protest the war, that he wanted
    out of the Navy immediately so that he could run for congress."
    Admiral Schlech consented and Kerry received an honorable discharge
    from the Navy six months early."

    If I remember correctly, you have to serve 5 years active and one year
    inactive from the time you graduation from OCS. Since that was sometime near
    the first of '68 I'm trying to figure how he could have had "only 6 months"
    left in 1970.

    It must be that new math.

    So you don't have proof. You are just speculating.

    [censored] Durbin

  10. "[censored] Durbin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    "Tom Kunich" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Do you have proof that Kerry received a less than honorable discharge?
    Here's what the Viet Nam Veterans Against Kerry Web site says:

    "In October 1969, while Kerry was still on active duty assigned to
    Admiral Schlech, Kerry was flying Adam Walinsky (Robert F. Kennedy's
    former speech writer), around New York state to deliver anti-war
    speeches.
    BY Jan. 3, 1970, Kerry had become so inspired by Walinsky's anti-war
    beliefs that he petitioned Admiral Schlech, "to tell his boss that his
    conscientious (sic)dictated that he protest the war, that he wanted
    out of the Navy immediately so that he could run for congress."
    Admiral Schlech consented and Kerry received an honorable discharge
    from the Navy six months early."

    If I remember correctly, you have to serve 5 years active and one year
    inactive from the time you graduation from OCS. Since that was sometime
    near
    the first of '68 I'm trying to figure how he could have had "only 6
    months"
    left in 1970.

    It must be that new math.

    So you don't have proof. You are just speculating.

    Well, it could all be proven one way or the other if John Kerry were to
    release his military records like EVERY OTHER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE.

  11. "Tom Kunich" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    Well, it could all be proven one way or the other if John Kerry were to
    release his military records like EVERY OTHER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE.

    maybe they were 'misplaced' like George W.'s? Or is that another 'EX-aj-Err-A-Shun'?

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