How's this lay-man's analysis.

<not@top-post> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

1. Antibiotics are against bacteria - not viri, allagens,
parasites.
2. Heavy mucous discharge from the sinuses, initiated by
allegens may form a warm 'culture mat' in the throat
over-night, which allows respiritory-system attacking
bacteria [streps & pneumonia] to establish.
3. Hence a condition initiated by allegens can be
alleviated by anti-biotics. ??

Please list the flaws in this reasoning.

Thanks,

== Chris Glur.

That isn't what happens. Try researching normal flora of the
upper respiratory tract, IgE mediated hypersensitivity,
secretory IgA to find out some of the reasons why. You might
also look at experimental oral candidosis (thrush) for an
example of an infection provoked by antibiotic treatment.

GS

On 2004-04-17 08:51:48 -0400, not@top-post said:

You're correct that antibiotics are only effective against
bacterial infections. Most upper respiratory infections are
caused by viruses, not bacteria, and antibiotics are not
indicated, and will not be helpful. The natural course of a
viral upper respiratory infection is seven to ten days in an
otherwise normal, healthy host. It may take longer to
resolve in smokers, for example, due to damage to the
protective lining of the respiratory tract caused by toxins
in cigarette smoke.

There is no direct causal relationship between allergic
rhinitis and viral upper respiratory infections, although
some symptoms (such as nasal congestion, post-nasal drip,
sinus pressure, etc.) overlap in both. Infections generally
involve fever, pain, and *purulent* (infected) nasal
discharge) are unique to sinusitis. Again, many cases of
sinusitis are caused by viruses, not bacteria, although in
this country, sinusitis is quite likely to be treated with
antibiotics, as there is no practice way to distinguish
clinically between viral and bacterial sinusitis.

Upper respiratory infections which begin as viral infections
or even severe allergic rhinitis can sometimes turn into
secondary bacterial infections, but this takes several days
(generally 10 or more), so an acute upper respiratory
infection is virtually guaranteed to be viral.

Quoted message said:

1. Antibiotics are against bacteria - not viri, allagens,
parasites.
2. Heavy mucous discharge from the sinuses, initiated by
allegens may form a warm 'culture mat' in the throat
over-night, which allows respiritory-system attacking
bacteria [streps & pneumonia] to establish.
3. Hence a condition initiated by allegens can be
alleviated by anti-biotics. ??

<not@top-post> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

1. Antibiotics are against bacteria - not viri, allagens,
parasites.
2. Heavy mucous discharge from the sinuses, initiated by
allegens may form a warm 'culture mat' in the throat
over-night, which allows respiritory-system attacking
bacteria [streps & pneumonia] to establish.
3. Hence a condition initiated by allegens can be
alleviated by anti-biotics. ??

Please list the flaws in this reasoning.

Thanks,

== Chris Glur.

The problem is that antibiotics are not site specific but go
all over your body. Many people get diarrhea because of
them. They can kill the friendly bacteria and let the nasty
ones over grow. These resistant bacteria can kill you if you
stay on antibiotics too long. The more you take antibiotics
the more resistant strains of bacteria you will develop.

anon said:

On 2004-04-17 08:51:48 -0400, not@top-post said:

You're correct that antibiotics are only effective against
bacterial infections. Most upper respiratory infections
are caused by viruses, not bacteria, and antibiotics are
not indicated, and will not be helpful. The natural course
of a viral upper respiratory infection is seven to ten
days in an otherwise normal, healthy host. It may take
longer to resolve in smokers, for example, due to damage
to the protective lining of the respiratory tract caused
by toxins in cigarette smoke.

There is no direct causal relationship between allergic
rhinitis and viral upper respiratory infections, although
some symptoms (such as nasal congestion, post-nasal drip,
sinus pressure, etc.) overlap in both. Infections
generally involve fever, pain, and *purulent* (infected)
nasal discharge) are unique to sinusitis. Again, many
cases of sinusitis are caused by viruses, not bacteria,
although in this country, sinusitis is quite likely to be
treated with antibiotics, as there is no practice way to
distinguish clinically between viral and bacterial
sinusitis.

Doc--

Do I understand you that you can see a purulent
discharge with viral sinusitis?

Steve
--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001
dentaltwins.comdentaltwins.comOpen ↗

Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS said:

Do I understand you that you can see a purulent
discharge with viral sinusitis?

S'possible.

not@top-post said:

1. Antibiotics are against bacteria - not viri, allagens,
parasites.

The plural of "virus" is "viruses."

Quoted message said:

2. Heavy mucous discharge from the sinuses, initiated by
allegens may form a warm 'culture mat' in the throat over-
night, which allows respiritory-system attacking
bacteria [streps & pneumonia] to establish.
3. Hence a condition initiated by allegens can be
alleviated by anti-biotics. ??

Please list the flaws in this reasoning.

I would say, "a condition initiated by allergens MAY be
alleviated by antibiotics."

It is possible and actually a common occurrence for people
with chronic allergic rhinitis to develop secondary
sinusitis, not just because of the "culture mat," but
because mucosal edema impedes normal sinus drainage. Normal
ciliary action of the upper respiratory mucosa draws
bacteria out of the sinus cavities under normal
circumstances.

However, it can be difficult to distinguish who has a
secondary infection and who doesn't. Neither the presence of
sinus tenderness, a particular nature of discharge, facial
edema, nor particular findings on sinus X-rays or CT scans
are diagnostic.

I often will treat for secondary sinusitis in a patient with
chronic allergic rhinitis when (1) I suspect sinusitis
clinically and treatment for allergic rhinitis alone has not
been effective, or (2) there has been several weeks of
acutely worse symptoms above baseline along with clinical
signs of sinusitis.

PF

anon said:

You're correct that antibiotics are only effective against
bacterial infections. Most upper respiratory infections are
caused by viruses, not bacteria, and antibiotics are not
indicated, and will not be helpful. The natural course of a
viral upper respiratory infection is seven to ten days in
an otherwise normal, healthy host. It may take longer to
resolve in smokers, for example, due to damage to the
protective lining of the respiratory tract caused by toxins
in cigarette smoke.

I would add that infants under age one year tend to hang on
to uncomplicated colds longer, too, often for up to two to
three weeks.

PF

anon said:

Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS said:

Do I understand you that you can see a purulent
discharge with viral sinusitis?

S'possible.

Indeed. The actual nature of the discharge is one of the
less useful clinical signs. And the color of it is
irrelevant.

PF, who will be glad when the notion patients have that
"green snot" means "needs antibiotics" dies.