How much recovery?

Raptor said:

I turn 40 this year and am experiencing the old man syndrome. It takes longer to recover from hard
efforts, and I recently overdid my interval training. So I'm wary of overtraining now and have
probably NOT been training as hard as I could/should.

I haven't done a formal interval workout for a while, but I get into my anaerobic range at least
once on all but hardcore recovery workouts.

What's the standard for taking a no-bs recovery day(s)? X number of intervals in a workout at X
intensity. Or is it best to use my body as my guide? The legs will complain if I've worked them
hard yesterday - should I ignore them if my resting HR seems okay that morning?

--

easy one.

start keeping a daily log of your waking heart/pulse rate. take it every morning when you first wake
up *before* getting outta bed.

if your resting pulse rate is ever 10 beats or more per minute above your average, you need to rest.
just rest until your waking pulse falls back to under 10 beats of the average. dosen't get any
easier than that. ( although the 10 beat limit is admitedly a fuzzy border value for *all* peeps,
it's a nice general guideline.)

go-go

ps to lynn - from your other thread "I knew I was too heavy" : you need learn to draft better. it's
a skill many folks ignore and need much improvement upon. if you can avg. 23 mph, you have plenty
of fitness to finish lower category races, you just need the skills to do so.

even if you increase your fitness, ( always a good thing as martha stew would say!) you still have
to learn to relax in the pack to use that improved fitness. try to start climbing hills in the top
10 of the pack and fade back to the middle of the pack by the top of the climb. then rinse, lather,
repeat for each lap and you'll stay secure ( and resting! ) in the middle of the pack for 75% of the
race. it's a tough skill to describe and learn 'till you see someone actually executing it during a
race. then it clicks for you.

remember, hanging out in the back 1/2 of a pack during a race is very strenous work. it's a great
way to waste large amounts of physical and emotional energy .

In article said:

I turn 40 this year and am experiencing the old man syndrome. It takes longer to recover from hard
efforts, and I recently overdid my interval training. So I'm wary of overtraining now and have
probably NOT been training as hard as I could/should.

I haven't done a formal interval workout for a while, but I get into my anaerobic range at least
once on all but hardcore recovery workouts.

What's the standard for taking a no-bs recovery day(s)? X number of intervals in a workout at X
intensity. Or is it best to use my body as my guide? The legs will complain if I've worked them
hard yesterday - should I ignore them if my resting HR seems okay that morning?

Why is a person who doesn't race (much) doing more than one day out of 7-10 with anaerobic
intervals? Quick path to peaking and overtraining.

To increase your recovery between rides and between hard efforts, and to minimize your chances of
burnout, spend more time doing intervals 5-20 bpm below your LT. My coach got me doing this and my
recovery has gotten amazingly better. Better recovery allows for more hard work during training but
first you have to get the aerobic system developed enough to help your recovery.

-WG

"warren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Raptor <[email hidden]> wrote:

Why is a person who doesn't race (much) doing more than one day out of 7-10 with anaerobic
intervals? Quick path to peaking and overtraining.

Why does it matter? People who don't race much are riding their bike for fun and should do whatever
feels good. If that means racing Freds during lunch, so be it.

In article <[email hidden]>, Kurgan Gringioni

Quoted message said:

"warren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Raptor <[email hidden]> wrote:

Why is a person who doesn't race (much) doing more than one day out of 7-10 with anaerobic
intervals? Quick path to peaking and overtraining.

Why does it matter? People who don't race much are riding their bike for fun and should do
whatever feels good. If that means racing Freds during lunch, so be it.

He said he was doing anaerobic intervals regularly. That is counter-productive for his stated goals,
none of which mentioned racing Freds at lunch.

He said what he had been doing wasn't working. As Dr. Phil would say, "How's that been
workin' for ya?"

-WG trainer of talk show personalities

warren said:

Why is a person who doesn't race (much) doing more than one day out of 7-10 with anaerobic
intervals? Quick path to peaking and overtraining.

To increase your recovery between rides and between hard efforts, and to minimize your chances of
burnout, spend more time doing intervals 5-20 bpm below your LT. My coach got me doing this and my
recovery has gotten amazingly better. Better recovery allows for more hard work during training
but first you have to get the aerobic system developed enough to help your recovery.

-WG

I seem to be there already. I've done a lot of that kind of work too, but usually can't resist
racing traffic on my way home, or hammering on a steep section. I recover during rides and other
exercise quite quickly. Unfortunately, the allowed recovery periods at the race I did were about 20
seconds too short for me.

--
--
Lynn Wallace xmission.com~lawallOpen ↗ "I'm not proud. We really haven't done everything we
could to protect our customers. Our products just aren't engineered for security." --Microsoft VP in
charge of Windows OS Development, Brian Valentine.

warren said:

He said he was doing anaerobic intervals regularly. That is counter-productive for his stated
goals, none of which mentioned racing Freds at lunch.

He said what he had been doing wasn't working. As Dr. Phil would say, "How's that been workin'
for ya?"

-WG trainer of talk show personalities

I didn't say that though, just that I'd overdone my interval work recently. I packed too many
into to short a time frame, once or twice. I thought I'd hit a nice fitness plateau that would
fulfill my needs, but I'm going to reach for higher level. I just need to get more systematic
about my recovery.

--
--
Lynn Wallace xmission.com~lawallOpen ↗ "I'm not proud. We really haven't done everything we
could to protect our customers. Our products just aren't engineered for security." --Microsoft VP in
charge of Windows OS Development, Brian Valentine.

"Kurgan Gringioni" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Why does it matter? People who don't race much are riding their bike for fun and should do
whatever feels good. If that means racing Freds during lunch, so be it.

What if it means being a Fat Master ?

"Bart" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Kurgan Gringioni" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Why does it matter? People who don't race much are riding their bike for

fun

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

and should do whatever feels good. If that means racing Freds during

lunch,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

so be it.

What if it means being a Fat Master ?

That's where the delusion begins setting in although certainly not all of the Masters Fatties have
an exagerrated sense of their significance. It only takes a few to make an impression.

"the gopheur" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Raptor said:

I turn 40 this year and am experiencing the old man syndrome. It

takes

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

longer to recover from hard efforts, and I recently overdid my

interval

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

training. So I'm wary of overtraining now and have probably NOT

been

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

training as hard as I could/should.

I haven't done a formal interval workout for a while, but I get

into my

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

anaerobic range at least once on all but hardcore recovery

workouts.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

What's the standard for taking a no-bs recovery day(s)? X number

of

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

intervals in a workout at X intensity. Or is it best to use my

body as

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

my guide? The legs will complain if I've worked them hard

yesterday -

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

should I ignore them if my resting HR seems okay that morning?

--

easy one.

start keeping a daily log of your waking heart/pulse rate.

take

Quoted message said:

it every morning when you first wake up *before* getting outta bed.

if your resting pulse rate is ever 10 beats or more per minute above your average, you need to
rest. just rest until your waking pulse falls back to under 10 beats of the average.

dosen't

Quoted message said:

get any easier than that. ( although the 10 beat limit is

admitedly

Quoted message said:

a fuzzy border value for *all* peeps, it's a nice general

guideline.)

That's it? An "easy one"? Resting HR up 10 beats then rest? Wow, that's an awfully simplistic answer
to one of the most fundamental questions about training.

To the original poster: the advice from Gopheur is correst insofar as a higher resting HR in the
morning is a sign to take it easy. But there are lots of other possible signs -- like HR not able to
climb to expected levels when working out, or HR excessively high, or feeling bad, or going slow.

The key things are to

1) Plan easy days or rest days and don't do anything hard on them.

2) Keep a log or other record of your training, resting and racing. Over time you may begin to see
how much recovery you need from specific workouts. One useful tool if you use a windtrainer is to
do a ramp test, where you do a series of three or four periods of two to four minutes
increasingly fast and record your HR at the end of each one. Then also rest for a minute at the
end of the series and record your HR. Add up the values and you'll get a number that you can use
to compare your state of fitness and fatigue from day to day. The ramp can serve as a warmup, and
the intensities of the stages should move from very easy, to moderate, to the intensity of a long
time trial. This is just one idea.

JT

--
*******************************************
NB: reply-to address is munged

Visit jt10000.comjt10000.comOpen ↗
*******************************************

In article <[email hidden]>, Kurgan Gringioni

Quoted message said:

"Bart" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Kurgan Gringioni" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Why does it matter? People who don't race much are riding their bike for

fun

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

and should do whatever feels good. If that means racing Freds during

lunch,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

so be it.

What if it means being a Fat Master ?

That's where the delusion begins setting in although certainly not all of the Masters Fatties have
an exagerrated sense of their significance. It only takes a few to make an impression.

FWIW, I recently noticed there are more fat guys in the Senior 3's than in the 35+ 1,2,3 here
in NorCal.

"...Not that there's anything wrong with that."

-WG

"John Forrest Tomlinson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"the gopheur" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Mon, 09 Jun 2003 11:40:51 -0600, Raptor <[email hidden]> wrote:

The key things are to

1) Plan easy days or rest days and don't do anything hard on them.

2) Keep a log or other record of your training, resting and racing. Over time you may begin to see
how much recovery you need from specific workouts. One useful tool if you use a windtrainer is
to do a ramp test, where you do a series of three or four periods of two to four minutes
increasingly fast and record your HR at the end of each one. Then also rest for a minute at the
end of the series and record your HR. Add up the values and you'll get a number that you can
use to compare your state of fitness and fatigue from day to day. The ramp can serve as a
warmup, and the intensities of the stages should move from very easy, to moderate, to the
intensity of a long time trial. This is just one idea.

JT

I say ride how you feel once warmed up.

If you feel good ride hard, not so good back off a little.

Take a day or two off when you feel like it.

Fartlek (speedplay) works.

Dashii

"Dashi Toshii" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Fartlek (speedplay) works.

Disagree.

I joked about holding a girlfriend's head under the bedcovers when I farted and she said she'd dump
me on the spot if I did.

"Kurgan Gringioni" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Dashi Toshii" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Fartlek (speedplay) works.

Disagree.

I joked about holding a girlfriend's head under the bedcovers when I

farted

Quoted message said:

and she said she'd dump me on the spot if I did.

No, no! You are thinking about Fartlick (foreplay) not Fartlek (speedplay).

Dashii

please read this first before thinking

greglemond.comgregstips.shtmlOpen ↗

from greg in san mateo california

In article said:

please read this first before thinking

greglemond.comgregstips.shtmlOpen ↗

from greg in san mateo california

I doubt Greg LeMond aggrees with alot of what's there since there are errors and false statements in
virtually every section.

For example...

"1. Maximum effort (sprints): This effort lasts 10 to 25 seconds.
- It is similar to a 200 meter sprint.
- It calls for 100 percent of your maximum heartbeat."

Your HR will not get to 100% in only 25 seconds.

"2. Submaximum effort (pure anaerobic interval): This effort lasts 25 seconds to two minutes.
- It is similar to a one-kilometer time trial on the track.
- Your body is operating at very nearly 100 percent of your maximum heartbeat.
- It is considered the purely anaerobic interval."

Many kilo riders will not hit their MHR and it is well-documented that 20-40% of the energy utilized
during a kilo is aerobic, not 0% as stated. It's even more aerobic for a 2-minute interval.

"4. Average intensity (anaerobic threshold): This exercise lasts from four to 30 minutes.
- It is similar to a five to 20 kilometer individual time trial.
- Your heart rate is between 90 and 100 percent of its maximum.
- In this exercise the body uses aerobic oxidation (oxygen provided through the bloodstream) because
it is not in an anaerobic state."

I doubt that anyone can go to 100% of MHR when they are "not in an anaerobic state." Even 90% of MHR
and completely aerobic would be most unusual.

"5. Light intensity (intense aerobic): This exercise lasts 30 minutes or more.
- This exercise is similar to a 25 mile time trial up to a long-distance but intense effort.
- Your heart rate is at 80 to 90 percent of its maximum during this exercise.
- Your body is in an exclusively aerobic state.
- Your body will first burn the glycogen it has stored. After that you will be running off fatty
acids. This is the bonks (complete exhaustion).

You don't burn glycogen and THEN fatty acids at this intensity. You burn them both simultaneously.
If you run out of glycogen you'll burn fatty acids but also protein (from muscle tissue). And the
"bonks" is not complete exhaustion.

It sounds like this was all translated from another laguage by someone who was a "personal trainer"
at a local gym.

-WG