How much movement in spokes?

David Kerber said:

I just got my brand new 2003 Fuji Touring today, and after going for a ride, I brought it inside
to transfer the computer, light, etc from my old bike. While I was at it, I decided to
stress-relieve the spokes in case they hadn't been done in the shop (I didn't ask, but I assume
they weren't). While I was squeezing the spokes, I got a few pops and pings from them so I think
they needed it.

Pops and pings are a sign that the spokes were twisted, and when unloaded (the ones adjacent to the
ones you stretched) turned in the threads. Now the wheel is no longer true. This is what happens by
default when you ride over a bump. It causes a poorly built wheel to become untrue. Stress relieving
is a noiseless event in which spokes are stretched to yield at residual stress points. It should not
make a sound.

Quoted message said:

My question is: how much should the spokes move (bend) while I'm squeezing them? To my
inexperienced eye, they seemed to be rather loose, and I'm wondering if I should tighten them all
up by 1/2 a turn or something. The rims are Alex 2100's double-walled aluminum, and appear to be
perfectly true and round when I spin them (as I would expect on a new bike). I weigh about 190,
and I don't plan to do any heavy touring, but a few trips to the store are likely, and I might do
some touring at some point in the future on it.

You'll need a tensiometer to measure tension. "How far" won't do because everyone grasps spokes with
differing force.

Quoted message said:

Thanks for any light you can shed on this!

If you want to build or re-build wheels you might have a look at:

avocet.comwheelbook.htmlOpen ↗

Jobst Brandt [email hidden] Palo Alto CA

<[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

David Kerber said:

I just got my brand new 2003 Fuji Touring today, and after going for

I've been wanting to test ride one of those. Looks like a very nice, versatile well-spec'd bike.

Quoted message said:

Pops and pings are a sign that the spokes were twisted, and when unloaded (the ones adjacent to
the ones you stretched) turned in the threads. Now the wheel is no longer true.

Well, yes, but the increased rim runout is probably not even visible.

Quoted message said:

This is what happens by default when you ride over a bump. It causes a poorly built wheel to
become untrue. Stress relieving is a noiseless event in which spokes are stretched to yield at
residual stress points. It should not make a sound.

The pops and pings also happen when riding wheels for the first time where spokes were twisted
during building. I just take the wheels off after the first ride and fine-true them again.
Works a charm.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

My question is: how much should the spokes move (bend) while I'm squeezing them? To my
inexperienced eye, they seemed to be rather loose, and I'm wondering if I should tighten them
all up by 1/2 a turn or something.

It's difficult to tell from your description; but I think you're on the right track. They might need
more than 1/2 turn . If you ride them, and they go out of true quickly, then they're definitely too
loose. This is a problem with machine-built wheels in general, from what I've read and experienced.

Quoted message said:

You'll need a tensiometer to measure tension. "How far" won't do because everyone grasps spokes
with differing force.

A tensiometer would be great; but the "ping" test has always worked for me. I've built dozens of
wheels, never used a tensiometer even once. I "ping" the spokes and get them to sound with the same
tone, or just squeeze them in adjacent pairs and then tension them equally by feel.

From my experience, the spoke wrench will probably slip before you get a spoke too tight. Check out
the spoke tension on the high-end low-spoke-count wheels sometime to get an idea of just how high
you can go. I'm of the belief that generally speaking it is better to be on the high side than on
the low side of spoke tension. Of course, it is possible to get spokes too tight. I've just never
managed to do it.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Thanks for any light you can shed on this!

HTH

-Barry

B. Sanders said:

It's difficult to tell from your description; but I think you're on the right track. They might
need more than 1/2 turn . If you ride them, and they go out of true quickly, then they're
definitely too loose. This is a problem with machine-built wheels in general, from what I've read
and experienced.

Since this is a brand new bike, I think he should bring it back to the LBS and have them tension and
true the wheels.

Quoted message said:

A tensiometer would be great; but the "ping" test has always worked for me. I've built dozens of
wheels, never used a tensiometer even once. I "ping" the spokes and get them to sound with the
same tone, or just squeeze them in adjacent pairs and then tension them equally by feel.

Pitch is ok for getting even tension in the spokes, but not so good for determining the actual
tension force.

Quoted message said:

From my experience, the spoke wrench will probably slip before you get a spoke too tight.

Not true. If the spoke threads and nipple/rim interface are well lubed, you can definitely
over-tighten spokes.

Art Harris

David-<< While I was at it, I decided to stress-relieve the spokes in case they hadn't been done in
the shop (I didn't ask, but I assume they weren't). While I was squeezing the spokes, I got a few
pops and pings from them so I think they needed it. >><BR><BR>

The noise is from spoke windup, not stress relieving.

David<< My question is: how much should the spokes move (bend) while I'm squeezing them? To my
inexperienced eye, they seemed to be rather loose, and I'm wondering if I should tighten them all up
by 1/2 a turn or something. >><BR><BR>

They probably are, most wheels are but I wouldn't just arbitrarily start raising the tension w/o
knowing what it is to start with. Ya can kill a wheel that way.

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 vecchios.comvecchios.comOpen ↗ "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

Quoted message said:

If you want to build or re-build wheels you might have a look at:

avocet.comwheelbook.htmlOpen ↗

Or go to Sheldon Brown's site, where you can get good information and don't have to buy a book.

"Jay Hill" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

If you want to build or re-build wheels you might have a look at:

avocet.comwheelbook.htmlOpen ↗

Or go to Sheldon Brown's site, where you can get good information and don't have to buy a book.

Unless you want to waste alot of time and bother printing the stuff, or committing it totally to
memory before setting out, having a book is a good thing. I found it worth every penny to be able to
reference the thing anytime, anywhere. Books are so much nicer than internet pages.

Aside from all that, with all due respect, Sheldon's site has hardly the information found in
"The Book".

--
Robin Hubert <[email hidden]

Robin Hubert <[email hidden]> wrote:
: "Jay Hill" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...
:> > If you want to build or re-build wheels you might have a look at:
:> >
:> > avocet.comwheelbook.htmlOpen ↗
:>
:> Or go to Sheldon Brown's site, where you can get good information and don't have to buy a book.

: Unless you want to waste alot of time and bother printing the stuff, or committing it totally to
: memory before setting out, having a book is a good thing. I found it worth every penny to be able
: to reference the thing anytime, anywhere. Books are so much nicer than internet pages.

I have used both. " The book" was fine But Sheldon's web site is just plain good fun and useful to
boot. And it is in color! Who needs to print it out? Just save the pages to your hard drive and read
them when needed.

: Aside from all that, with all due respect, Sheldon's site has hardly the information found in
: "The Book".

Sheldon had a great site with loads more info that you find in the book. Bearings, axles, quick
release info, etc.

I found that only around 20 pages of "the Book" is worth reading. The rest will just make your eyes
glaze over.

--------------------------------
Bob Masse' [email hidden]
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