How much did you say??? (the expensive parts thread)

Whoa, this could turn into a very long thread. Without considering wheels and framesets, where the sky is NOT the limit, this caught my attention: THM Clavicula crankset for 998.00 Euro... :eek: (I link to one site as an example, not to critique the on-line store, but rather to point out the current price).

They are beautiful, but I would rather consider purchasing a mid-range bicycle for a few hundred more Euros!

Powerful Pete said:

Whoa, this could turn into a very long thread. Without considering wheels and framesets, where the sky is NOT the limit, this caught my attention: THM Clavicula crankset for 998.00 Euro... :eek: (I link to one site as an example, not to critique the on-line store, but rather to point out the current price).

They are beautiful, but I would rather consider purchasing a mid-range bicycle for a few hundred more Euros!

Chainrings not included.

::dom:: said:

What the most expensive part, bike, accessory you've come across?

This could be interesting, considering that around 1980, the average pro-issue road bike could be had for around $1500 US. You got a brazed or soldered double-butted lugged steel frame, Campagnolo Super Record, 32-spoke wheels, cotton sew-ups, 400-g hard-anodized rims.

For hill stages and time trials most teams just used lighter wheels with silks.

Of course you could spend more on a custom frame or a Klein, but after spending your $1500 you could be assured that nothing was going to make you faster except a stronger engine. And maybe a soigneur and a mechanic.

oldbobcat said:

...Of course you could spend more on a custom frame or a Klein, but after spending your $1500 you could be assured that nothing was going to make you faster except a stronger engine. And maybe a soigneur and a mechanic.

But then again, that remains the case today. Having a super-duper 800g. frame, clavicula cranks, and carbon brakes will not make you go any faster if you do not train!

But the marketing guys don't want us to think that way!

Powerful Pete said:

But the marketing guys don't want us to think that way!

Right you are. Thanks for reminding me. But it's funny how the marketing guys got their hooks into the Pro Tour.

oldbobcat said:

Right you are. Thanks for reminding me. But it's funny how the marketing guys got their hooks into the Pro Tour.

Indeed. LOL.

I have to admit that every time I see a new CF bike I begin to hyperventilate, consider the costs of instant divorce if I show up at home with a 3,000 Euro frame, and must repeat obsessively the 'I do not need that frame to go faster. It is all marketing hype.'.

:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o

I am weak.

oldbobcat said:

This could be interesting, considering that around 1980, the average pro-issue road bike could be had for around $1500 US. You got a brazed or soldered double-butted lugged steel frame, Campagnolo Super Record, 32-spoke wheels, cotton sew-ups, 400-g hard-anodized rims.

For hill stages and time trials most teams just used lighter wheels with silks.

Of course you could spend more on a custom frame or a Klein, but after spending your $1500 you could be assured that nothing was going to make you faster except a stronger engine. And maybe a soigneur and a mechanic.

Using an on line inflation calculator that would be about $3800 today.

I don't know - how much is a pro issue bike today? One could certainly get a heck of a nice bike for $3800 nowadays, but I'm ignorant about how that would relate to a bike actually used by a pro.

A bike used by a pro-tour team can easily cost twice that amount, when you consider that high end carbon wheelsets like Lightweights or Campagnolo Boras are at least 2000 Euro.

The full, top of the line Cannondale that is the replica of the Liquigas bike has an MSRP in Italy of about 9000 Euro (not that anyone would pay that amount for the thing).

That gives you an idea.

Camilo said:

I don't know - how much is a pro issue bike today? One could certainly get a heck of a nice bike for $3800 nowadays, but I'm ignorant about how that would relate to a bike actually used by a pro.

Funny, I went into Competitive Cyclist and Excel Sports and couldn't even find a $3800 road bike.

Slipstream-Chipotle will be using the Felt F1 Team Issue this year, with Dura-Ace, which retails for $6999.99. In the Felt lineup, $4499 will get you a DA-spec'ed F2 with less alloy, more carbon, and milder frame. Using some imagination you might envision this bike discounting for around $3800.

In the pro peloton there will certainly be bikes more expensive than the Felt--Colnago, Look, Time, Ridley, Pinarello, Trek, etc. And roughly equivalent bikes--Cervelo and Giant. And bringing up the low end, the B-Twins used by Ag2r.

So one would have to say that the cost of pro-level bike has at least doubled. Not that it would make more than an iota of difference on riding most of us do.

oldbobcat said:

Funny, I went into Competitive Cyclist and Excel Sports and couldn't even find a $3800 road bike.

Slipstream-Chipotle will be using the Felt F1 Team Issue this year, with Dura-Ace, which retails for $6999.99. In the Felt lineup, $4499 will get you a DA-spec'ed F2 with less alloy, more carbon, and milder frame. Using some imagination you might envision this bike discounting for around $3800.

In the pro peloton there will certainly be bikes more expensive than the Felt--Colnago, Look, Time, Ridley, Pinarello, Trek, etc. And roughly equivalent bikes--Cervelo and Giant. And bringing up the low end, the B-Twins used by Ag2r.

So one would have to say that the cost of pro-level bike has at least doubled. Not that it would make more than an iota of difference on riding most of us do.

Who needs a whole bike? A Look 595 frame will set you back $3700 or so, with no need to come up with a headset or seatpost. 😄

I think it could be argued that what you get for a "pro level" bike today is a greater value, in terms of performance and technology, than what you got in 1980. Granted, no single element of a bicycle adds any great performance advantage, but if your a team boss getting sponsor dollars and paying dosh for quality riders, you'll prolly worry at some point about those few tenths or even hundreths of a second.

Of course, for nearly everyone else--and frankly, even that team boss, except on the odd occasion when a victory comes down to such a small margin--the performance benefits don't really add anything. In both cases, though, someone has to end up paying for the work done before the bike leaves the factory in a box. Now, a significant number of bikes spend time in CAD and FEA programs being optimized by engineers. In 1980, that wasn't the case. Material costs have gone up. Ti is pricey and will remain so at least until nuclear war relieves of the technology requiring Ti. While still relatively cheap, CF prices are up.

Then there's our friend, Advertising. There's a lot more spent advertising these days than in 1980. And then there's demand. Demand for high end bikes and bike components has gone way up and is far beyond anything that could have been imagined in 1980. As a result, prices are way up for high end kit. That demand--I don't think--hasn't scaled with inflation. That demand seems to have outpaced inflation by a significant amount.

Of course it could also be argued that you could get a bike today, of the same technological level as a top-end bike in 1980, for less than you could have bought it then.

Here I go gain.....🙂

This is slighty off topic, but I nominate Australia as the most expensive place on Earth to buy bike stuff:

TIME VXRS frame-set only: $7,855
http://www.bicyclestore.com.au/Time-VXRS-Ulteam-Frame-05123001-pr-22655.html

Dura-Ace STI levers: $750
http://www.freedommachine.com.au/item.asp?Category=101&Start=0&ID=343

Dura-Ace cranks: $700
http://www.freedommachine.com.au/item.asp?Category=105&Start=0&ID=364

Record Carbon cranks: $1,067
http://www.cecilwalker.com.au/category148_1.htm

ITM K-Sword carbon stem: $600
http://www.cecilwalker.com.au/category255_1.htm

ITM K-Sword carbon bars: $700
http://www.cecilwalker.com.au/category254_1.htm

Time RXS Titanium Carbon pedals: $595
http://www.fitzroycycles.com.au/moreinfo.cfm?Product_ID=1228

It goes on and on.....

alienator said:

And then there's demand. Demand for high end bikes and bike components has gone way up and is far beyond anything that could have been imagined in 1980. As a result, prices are way up for high end kit. That demand--I don't think--hasn't scaled with inflation. That demand seems to have outpaced inflation by a significant amount.

Of course it could also be argued that you could get a bike today, of the same technological level as a top-end bike in 1980, for less than you could have bought it then.

Demand for bikes grew with the boomers, and in 1980 few boomers could afford or justify a $3500 bike. By the end of the decade expensive new technology was becoming adopted by the pros, the purchasing power of boomers was growing, and Gen-X wasn't far behind.

And the new exotic stuff is rugged unless you crash it. And the teams are better equipped. I don't think a neutral support bike ever left the rack on the Mavic car during last year's Tour de France. A good thing, too, because I don't think the pedals were compatible with anyone's cleats.

This is pretty obvious, but this is my take on increase in demand:

I reckon it's been gradual over the last 15 or so years -- firstly, as a crossover from triathlon, then (and more so) as a corssover from the popularity of mountain bikes, and then from the increased coverage of The Tour in English speaking countries

531Aussie said:

Here I go gain.....🙂
It goes on and on.....

You guys do get the cycling shaft. Damn.

oldbobcat said:

Demand for bikes grew with the boomers, and in 1980 few boomers could afford or justify a $3500 bike. By the end of the decade expensive new technology was becoming adopted by the pros, the purchasing power of boomers was growing, and Gen-X wasn't far behind.

And the new exotic stuff is rugged unless you crash it. And the teams are better equipped. I don't think a neutral support bike ever left the rack on the Mavic car during last year's Tour de France. A good thing, too, because I don't think the pedals were compatible with anyone's cleats.

Yeah, the new stuff can be just as tough and durable as the old stuff. The problem is convincing people that is true.

531Aussie said:

Here I go gain.....🙂

This is slighty off topic, but I nominate Australia as the most expensive place on Earth to buy bike stuff:

It goes on and on.....

Whoa. :eek: Worth the trip to Europe to buy directly from the factory. Get a vacation out of it and still come out ahead, I suspect.

alienator said:

Of course it could also be argued that you could get a bike today, of the same technological level as a top-end bike in 1980, for less than you could have bought it then.

Can't argue with that. The carbon-framed Felt that I bought for $1000 last spring is a better bike than the pro-level bike I rode in the 80s, in every respect except fit. It's four pounds lighter, it has indexed "brifters" and six more "speeds," and the frame doesn't rust. And judging by the way the pros have been sitting on their bikes in the last few years, especially the sprinters and classics specialists, I'm in good company. If I ever wanted to get into Masters racing, the only thing I'd change would be an extra set of wheels.

Powerful Pete said:

Whoa. :eek: Worth the trip to Europe to buy directly from the factory. Get a vacation out of it and still come out ahead, I suspect.

HA HA! 🙂 I have a couple of friends who're planning to do just that.

Powerful Pete said:

Whoa. :eek: Worth the trip to Europe to buy directly from the factory. Get a vacation out of it and still come out ahead, I suspect.

The BMC TT01 requires the buyer (in the U.S) to fly to Arkansas to be sized for their custom machine. Airfare included, the frameset is $(USD)12,500. At least when bought from competitive cyclist. I don't know if it woud be cheaper if one lived in Arkansas and didn't need the airfare.