How many patches per tube?

dgk wrote:
:: It was quite wet this morning for my commute. Normally I just punt
:: and take the train but with a good tailwind this morning and the wind
:: reversing for this afternoon, I just had to go.
::
:: And, as often happens when I bike in the wet, I got a flat. This tube
:: now has three patches, two of the "instant" no-glue type.
::
:: Do patches work as well as a new tube? I haven't had a patch go bad
:: that I know of. I actually alternate tubes since I carry a spare tube
:: as well as a patch kit, so the newly patched tube just becomes the
:: spare and doesn't even get used till the next flat.

Well, if the cost of tubes is an issue, I'd do it your way. If not, I'd
just toss it.

In general, I'd say that a patched tube doesn't work as well as a new tube,
since the patched tube might not be patched well in all cases (if it is then
it will likely work fine). The correct answer is: it depends. If you patch
a lot of tubes and are good at it, then no problem, espeically if you like
saving money & don't mind patching. Me, with those deals at
performance.com, I just toss them. I do carry a patch kit and spares,
though, cause you never know what might happen on the road.

"Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

dgk wrote:
:: It was quite wet this morning for my commute. Normally I just punt
:: and take the train but with a good tailwind this morning and the wind
:: reversing for this afternoon, I just had to go.
::
:: And, as often happens when I bike in the wet, I got a flat. This tube
:: now has three patches, two of the "instant" no-glue type.
::
:: Do patches work as well as a new tube? I haven't had a patch go bad
:: that I know of. I actually alternate tubes since I carry a spare tube
:: as well as a patch kit, so the newly patched tube just becomes the
:: spare and doesn't even get used till the next flat.

Well, if the cost of tubes is an issue, I'd do it your way. If not, I'd
just toss it.

In general, I'd say that a patched tube doesn't work as well as a new
tube, since the patched tube might not be patched well in all cases (if it
is then it will likely work fine). The correct answer is: it depends. If
you patch a lot of tubes and are good at it, then no problem, espeically
if you like saving money & don't mind patching. Me, with those deals at
performance.com, I just toss them. I do carry a patch kit and spares,
though, cause you never know what might happen on the road.

Also, depends on the tube quality I would say. Since he mentioned sales.
MEC has their own cheap tube, half price to Champion which are double
thickness.
I would want to keep the high quality ones longer and still get a savings.
I use tuffy inserts and kevlar belted tires. I have still found a couple
flats but far fewer.
Warning however, the tuffy makes the ride a little less responsive to the
pavement.

http://www.mec.ca/Products/product_listing.jsp?FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302693655&currentPage=3&bmUID=1175527416299

dgk said:

Do patches work as well as a new tube? I haven't had a patch go bad
that I know of. I actually alternate tubes since I carry a spare tube
as well as a patch kit, so the newly patched tube just becomes the
spare and doesn't even get used till the next flat.

I don't do instant patches - I carry patch kits and do it the old
fashioned way. And try to remember to change the glue in the kits,
after walking home on my first ride a couple of years ago. Useless,
dried up glue tube...

On 'normal' tires, I have no problem with patches and will use a
patched tube for years. I have one narrow tired bike with tires that
aren't friendly when putting them back on. I tend to replace those
tubes with news ones on that one set. I won't claim that no patch has
ever leaked, but no patch has leaked after the second pass and the
leaks have been very, very rare (maybe two, maybe three over decades).

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...

"dgk" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

It was quite wet this morning for my commute. Normally I just punt and
take the train but with a good tailwind this morning and the wind
reversing for this afternoon, I just had to go.

And, as often happens when I bike in the wet, I got a flat. This tube
now has three patches, two of the "instant" no-glue type.

Do patches work as well as a new tube? I haven't had a patch go bad
that I know of. I actually alternate tubes since I carry a spare tube
as well as a patch kit, so the newly patched tube just becomes the
spare and doesn't even get used till the next flat.

I've had six patches on a tube for over a year, never had one fail
on any bike, road or mountain. That's counting my bikes, my wife's,
and my kids. Includes pinch flats from the kids hitting curbs head-on.
I use the instant glueless type, I've got the old tube and patch kit
but I've never used it, why bother?
Some folks have a bias against them but my experience has been only
positive.

Tubes are $3-5.00. Patches are about $0.50 each. It does take a few extra
minutes
sometimes to find the leak. Faster to just replace the tube on the road or
the trail.
Lots of ways to look at it but I don't feel patch failure is a
consideration.

JP

dgk said:

Do patches work as well as a new tube? I haven't had a patch go bad
that I know of. I actually alternate tubes since I carry a spare tube
as well as a patch kit, so the newly patched tube just becomes the
spare and doesn't even get used till the next flat.

I generally give up on a tube after it has sixteen patches. The ride
gets bumpy when too many concentrated in one section. Other than that I
never worry about which is better. Actually that's not true, I've
experienced more stem failures on new tubes than patched tubes.
Although that might have been because there was a defective lot of tubes
that was manufactured IIRC.

--
Dane Buson - [email hidden]
Creativity is not always bred in an environment of tranquility;
sometimes you have to squeeze a little to get the paste out of the tube.

Got 4 on my rear tire now, 1 on front. No leak problem.

dgk said:

It was quite wet this morning for my commute. Normally I just punt and
take the train but with a good tailwind this morning and the wind
reversing for this afternoon, I just had to go.

And, as often happens when I bike in the wet, I got a flat. This tube
now has three patches, two of the "instant" no-glue type.

Do patches work as well as a new tube? I haven't had a patch go bad
that I know of. I actually alternate tubes since I carry a spare tube
as well as a patch kit, so the newly patched tube just becomes the
spare and doesn't even get used till the next flat.

"dgk" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Do patches work as well as a new tube?

Maybe better? It's a little thicker where the patch is.

Quoted message said:

I haven't had a patch go bad
that I know of. I actually alternate tubes since I carry a spare tube
as well as a patch kit, so the newly patched tube just becomes the
spare and doesn't even get used till the next flat.

Same here. When we had a flat on the tandem on Saturday, my husband looked
dubious when he saw all the patches on the tube I pulled out of the bike
bag, but it held just fine. Which reminds me, I need to find the hole on the
other tube.

--
Warm Regards,

Claire Petersky
http://www.bicyclemeditations.org/
See the books I've set free at: http://bookcrossing.com/referral/Cpetersky

dgk said:

It was quite wet this morning for my commute. Normally I just punt and
take the train but with a good tailwind this morning and the wind
reversing for this afternoon, I just had to go.

And, as often happens when I bike in the wet, I got a flat. This tube
now has three patches, two of the "instant" no-glue type.

Do patches work as well as a new tube? I haven't had a patch go bad
that I know of. I actually alternate tubes since I carry a spare tube
as well as a patch kit, so the newly patched tube just becomes the
spare and doesn't even get used till the next flat.

dgk-
I don't think that the number of patches is all that important (as long
as they are not overlapping each other). I always carry a spare tube
with me and I usually wait until I get home to patch the old tube (which
then becomes my "spare" tube).

But, as a general rule of thumb, I won't bother to patch any tube thats
seen more than two or three years of use.

--

Paul D Oosterhout
I work for SAIC (but I don't speak for SAIC)

For me, it depends on the bike's use. For commuting, I use patched
tubes until it's convenient to put a new tube on. I carry a spare
anyway, and I'm never more than a few miles from home or work. I try
to minimize the chance of a flat by using tire liners and sometimes
Slime. I also won't use more than 1 patch per tube, though that may
be overly conservative.

For long rides on my road bike, I stick to un-patched tubes since I
don't want to get stranded ~30 miles from home if a patch leaks. I
carry a spare tube and a patch kit for emergencies, but so far I
haven't needed the patches (knock on helmet).

Whenever an online retailer has tubes on sale, I often by 3-4. Often
you can find them for ~$2 on sale. These days I like to keep a
reserve stock of about 4-6 tubes for each bike. On average I seem to
get 2-3 flats per year, so this is really cheap insurance.

-JR

"dgk" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Roger Zoul said:

dgk wrote:
:: It was quite wet this morning for my commute. Normally I just punt
:: and take the train but with a good tailwind this morning and the wind
:: reversing for this afternoon, I just had to go.
::
:: And, as often happens when I bike in the wet, I got a flat. This tube
:: now has three patches, two of the "instant" no-glue type.
::
:: Do patches work as well as a new tube? I haven't had a patch go bad
:: that I know of. I actually alternate tubes since I carry a spare tube
:: as well as a patch kit, so the newly patched tube just becomes the
:: spare and doesn't even get used till the next flat.

Well, if the cost of tubes is an issue, I'd do it your way. If not, I'd
just toss it.

In general, I'd say that a patched tube doesn't work as well as a new
tube,
since the patched tube might not be patched well in all cases (if it is
then
it will likely work fine). The correct answer is: it depends. If you
patch
a lot of tubes and are good at it, then no problem, espeically if you like
saving money & don't mind patching. Me, with those deals at
performance.com, I just toss them. I do carry a patch kit and spares,
though, cause you never know what might happen on the road.

Well, on the way home I noticed that the tire seemed a bit low so I
stopped to put more air into it; no gauge while on the road. That
resulted in the tire losing more air as I cursed, and then realized
that the tire just wasn't being inflated. I took it off, and the valve
was pulling off the tube.

When I'm pumplng with that little portable pump I hold the valve and
nearby spokes with one hand and pump with the other. I don't know what
caused the valve to rip, but I was very [censored].

So I went back to the first tube (patched during the day) and all is
well now. I stopped at a LBS on the way home and picked up another
tube - $8.00. I think I'll get a few online the next time I order
something.

Not that anyone would do this but the LBS said presta tubes without the
grommet can end up easily with a broken valve.

"Claire Petersky" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"dgk" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

DGK wrote: Do patches work as well as a new tube?

Quoted message said:

Claire wrote: Maybe better? It's a little thicker where the patch is.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Interesting. I'm going to do my Carl Fogel impression and run a test. I'm
going to buy a new tube and patch it before I use it, to see how well it
holds air. ;-)

On Tue, 03 Apr 2007 16:52:48 GMT, "nash" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

"dgk" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Roger Zoul said:

dgk wrote:
:: It was quite wet this morning for my commute. Normally I just punt
:: and take the train but with a good tailwind this morning and the wind
:: reversing for this afternoon, I just had to go.
::
:: And, as often happens when I bike in the wet, I got a flat. This tube
:: now has three patches, two of the "instant" no-glue type.
::
:: Do patches work as well as a new tube? I haven't had a patch go bad
:: that I know of. I actually alternate tubes since I carry a spare tube
:: as well as a patch kit, so the newly patched tube just becomes the
:: spare and doesn't even get used till the next flat.

Well, if the cost of tubes is an issue, I'd do it your way. If not, I'd
just toss it.

In general, I'd say that a patched tube doesn't work as well as a new
tube,
since the patched tube might not be patched well in all cases (if it is
then
it will likely work fine). The correct answer is: it depends. If you
patch
a lot of tubes and are good at it, then no problem, espeically if you like
saving money & don't mind patching. Me, with those deals at
performance.com, I just toss them. I do carry a patch kit and spares,
though, cause you never know what might happen on the road.

Well, on the way home I noticed that the tire seemed a bit low so I
stopped to put more air into it; no gauge while on the road. That
resulted in the tire losing more air as I cursed, and then realized
that the tire just wasn't being inflated. I took it off, and the valve
was pulling off the tube.

When I'm pumplng with that little portable pump I hold the valve and
nearby spokes with one hand and pump with the other. I don't know what
caused the valve to rip, but I was very [censored].

So I went back to the first tube (patched during the day) and all is
well now. I stopped at a LBS on the way home and picked up another
tube - $8.00. I think I'll get a few online the next time I order
something.

Not that anyone would do this but the LBS said presta tubes without the
grommet can end up easily with a broken valve.

Ah, these are schrader<?>

"dgk" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

It was quite wet this morning for my commute. Normally I just punt and
take the train but with a good tailwind this morning and the wind
reversing for this afternoon, I just had to go.

And, as often happens when I bike in the wet, I got a flat. This tube
now has three patches, two of the "instant" no-glue type.

Do patches work as well as a new tube? I haven't had a patch go bad
that I know of. I actually alternate tubes since I carry a spare tube
as well as a patch kit, so the newly patched tube just becomes the
spare and doesn't even get used till the next flat.

I haven't had a flat or a blowout in over 2 years. I went to thickwalled
self sealer tubes. They go down but when you pump them back up and ride
they stay up.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Daryl Hunt said:

I haven't had a flat or a blowout in over 2 years. I went to thickwalled

Now ya done it :-)

cheers,
Tom

--
Nothing is safe from me.
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

On Apr 3, 11:46 am, "Leo Lichtman" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

"Claire Petersky" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:[email hidden]...> "dgk" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

news:[email hidden]...

DGK wrote: Do patches work as well as a new tube?

Claire wrote: Maybe better? It's a little thicker where the patch is.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Interesting. I'm going to do my Carl Fogel impression and run a test. I'm
going to buy a new tube and patch it before I use it, to see how well it
holds air. ;-)

Dear Leo,

In case you're serious . . .

🙂

The elderly tube with 11 patches (3 different kinds) that Jobst just
sent me held air just fine:

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.tech/browse_frm/thread/8107d1e73b8bf414/ee993e885fc67b80#ee993e885fc67b80

In any case, the patch material is thicker than the tube, and only an
insignificant area is involved--the enormous area of the whole inner
tube dwarfs the tiny hole covered by the patch.

Bicycle inner tubes lose pressure because the various gases inside
them are soluble in butyl rubber.

Normal air is ~80% N2, ~20% O2, and ~1% CO2 and other gases.

The three main gases are soluble in butyl rubber, meaning that they
dissolve through the solid wall.

N2 is soluble in butyl rubber at a rate of ~10, while O2 goes through
the same rubber more than twice as fast at a rate of ~23 units.

CO2 escapes at a rate of ~150, which is why tubes pumped up with CO2
inflators go flat so quickly--the CO2 goes through the rubber roughly
15 times as fast as normal air:

http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/may98/895552329.Ch.r.html

The gases are even more soluble in latex rubber, which is why you have
to pump unpatched latex tubes up so often.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

<[email hidden]> wrote: (clip) N2 is soluble in butyl rubber at a
rate of ~10, while O2 goes through the same rubber more than twice as fast
at a rate of ~23 units. (clip)
Yesm and on that basis, some tire shops inflate with nitrogen. Costco made
a biog deal about this a while back--I'm mot sure whether they are still
doing it. But anyhow, the claim is that if you inflate with nitrogen, the
pressure will stay up better. However, since the oxygen preferentially
oozes out, when you reinflate with a pump or with filling station air, you
wind up with more than 80% nitrogen, and each time you do this, the
ciomposition inside the tube approaches the usual 80/20 ratio.

So, why bother. In my opinion it's just hype.

Daryl Hunt said:

"dgk" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

It was quite wet this morning for my commute. Normally I just punt and
take the train but with a good tailwind this morning and the wind
reversing for this afternoon, I just had to go.

And, as often happens when I bike in the wet, I got a flat. This tube
now has three patches, two of the "instant" no-glue type.

Do patches work as well as a new tube? I haven't had a patch go bad
that I know of. I actually alternate tubes since I carry a spare tube
as well as a patch kit, so the newly patched tube just becomes the
spare and doesn't even get used till the next flat.

I haven't had a flat or a blowout in over 2 years. I went to thickwalled
self sealer tubes. They go down but when you pump them back up and ride
they stay up.

What's the downside to using selfsealing tubes? I see Nashbar has them
on sale.

I really hate flats. I'm not sure just why. Maybe it's sitting on
filty sidewalks while I try to get the tire off without ripping the
tube more. Or maybe it's having to put my hands all over a tire that
just rode through lots of dog [censored] and people spit. Maybe it's that
bit about trying to stretch a sidewall over a rim that is just a
smidgen too small.

Or it could be trying to fill the tire with that teeny little pump
while attempting to avoid ripping the valve out.

It's probably some combination of those. Well, at least the weather is
getting nicer and I'm not doing it while sitting in slush.

"dgk" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Daryl Hunt said:

"dgk" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

It was quite wet this morning for my commute. Normally I just punt and
take the train but with a good tailwind this morning and the wind
reversing for this afternoon, I just had to go.

And, as often happens when I bike in the wet, I got a flat. This tube
now has three patches, two of the "instant" no-glue type.

Do patches work as well as a new tube? I haven't had a patch go bad
that I know of. I actually alternate tubes since I carry a spare tube
as well as a patch kit, so the newly patched tube just becomes the
spare and doesn't even get used till the next flat.

I haven't had a flat or a blowout in over 2 years. I went to thickwalled
self sealer tubes. They go down but when you pump them back up and ride
they stay up.

What's the downside to using selfsealing tubes? I see Nashbar has them
on sale.

Price and weight only.

Quoted message said:

I really hate flats. I'm not sure just why. Maybe it's sitting on
filty sidewalks while I try to get the tire off without ripping the
tube more. Or maybe it's having to put my hands all over a tire that
just rode through lots of dog [censored] and people spit. Maybe it's that
bit about trying to stretch a sidewall over a rim that is just a
smidgen too small.

Or it could be trying to fill the tire with that teeny little pump
while attempting to avoid ripping the valve out.

It's probably some combination of those. Well, at least the weather is
getting nicer and I'm not doing it while sitting in slush.

The upside is you no longer have what you described above.

Daryl Hunt said:

"dgk" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Daryl Hunt said:

"dgk" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> It was quite wet this morning for my commute. Normally I just punt and
> take the train but with a good tailwind this morning and the wind
> reversing for this afternoon, I just had to go.
>
> And, as often happens when I bike in the wet, I got a flat. This tube
> now has three patches, two of the "instant" no-glue type.
>
> Do patches work as well as a new tube? I haven't had a patch go bad
> that I know of. I actually alternate tubes since I carry a spare tube
> as well as a patch kit, so the newly patched tube just becomes the
> spare and doesn't even get used till the next flat.

I haven't had a flat or a blowout in over 2 years. I went to thickwalled
self sealer tubes. They go down but when you pump them back up and ride
they stay up.

What's the downside to using selfsealing tubes? I see Nashbar has them
on sale.

Price and weight only.

Quoted message said:

I really hate flats. I'm not sure just why. Maybe it's sitting on
filty sidewalks while I try to get the tire off without ripping the
tube more. Or maybe it's having to put my hands all over a tire that
just rode through lots of dog [censored] and people spit. Maybe it's that
bit about trying to stretch a sidewall over a rim that is just a
smidgen too small.

Or it could be trying to fill the tire with that teeny little pump
while attempting to avoid ripping the valve out.

It's probably some combination of those. Well, at least the weather is
getting nicer and I'm not doing it while sitting in slush.

The upside is you no longer have what you described above.

Then there's not downside. My bike weighs so much that another
fraction of an ounce is not going to matter. Thanks, I'll order a few
while they're on sale.