How many are healthy?

"Toby Joe" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

From: "Orac" <[email hidden]> Newsgroups:
misc.health.alternative,alt.health,sci.med.nutrition Sent:
Wednesday, March 24, 2004 12:41 PM Subject: Re: Colon
Cleanse Product

Quoted message said:

With a healthy diet, the colon cleans itself and
maintains its own health.

And yet any verifiable references showing numbers of
healthy colons or digestive sysems have so far proven
elusive.

How many are "healthy"?
- Within an entire population?
- Within an adult population?
- Within a senior population, eg over 65s?

Because without some idea of how many are "healthy", the
statement means little.

AFAIK, there are two states of colon health wrt to
cleanses...

1. Healthy, defined as being self purging on a regular
basis. I do not know of a pandemic of constipation.

2. Unhealthy, defined as unable to self purge without
additional inducement. This category breaks down to two
sub categories:

A. Intermittent problems ameliorated with change of
diet to include more fiber, mild laxatives, etc
B. Major problem with purging known as impaction.
The use of any laxative, etc. INCLUDING cleanses,
is contraindicated.

Thus, there is no real need for these cleanses, if one is
moving with any degree of regularity. The shills for
these cleanses make it sound like one needs them
regardless of normal bowel movement. Nothing could be
further from the truth.

Quoted message said:

Subject: How many are healthy?
From: Toby Joe [email hidden]
Date: 3/30/04 4:50 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Because without some idea of how many are "healthy", the
statement means little.

Define "healthy".

To me "healthy" means that the colon retains its proper
shape and size. The colon performs its functions daily
without having to resort to inducements.

And the real biggies. The healthy colon is acidic and
produces little gas.

You can check your stool for accult blood. How many of you
have checked your stool for its pH? Acidic is healthy, basic
is diseased. The amount of gas produced is up to your
resident bacteria, but excessive gas is a negative, while
some is normal.

To define a healthy colon correctly is the first thing
one must do.

DrC PhD.

DRCEEPHD said:

Quoted message said:

Subject: How many are healthy? From: Toby Joe
[email hidden] Date: 3/30/04 4:50 PM Eastern
Standard Time Message-id:
<[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Because without some idea of how many are "healthy", the
statement means little.

Define "healthy".

To me "healthy" means that the colon retains its proper
shape and size. The colon performs its functions daily
without having to resort to inducements.

And the real biggies. The healthy colon is acidic and
produces little gas.

You can check your stool for accult blood. How many of you
have checked your stool for its pH? Acidic is healthy,
basic is diseased. The amount of gas produced is up to
your resident bacteria, but excessive gas is a negative,
while some is normal.

To define a healthy colon correctly is the first thing one
must do.

DrC PhD.

So why do you say that your stool is acidic?

j.

Just how acidic?

can you give a range?

(DRCEEPHD) said:

Quoted message said:

From: Toby Joe [email hidden]

Quoted message said:

Because without some idea of how many are "healthy", the
statement means little.

Define "healthy".

* One which is disease free

* Free of chronic pain or discomfort

* Functioning normally, even if not optimally

Quoted message said:

To me "healthy" means that the colon retains its proper
shape and size. The colon performs its functions daily
without having to resort to inducements.

And the real biggies. The healthy colon is acidic and
produces little gas.

You can check your stool for accult blood. How many of you
have checked your stool for its pH? Acidic is healthy,
basic is diseased. The amount of gas produced is up to
your resident bacteria, but excessive gas is a negative,
while some is normal.

To define a healthy colon correctly is the first thing one
must do.

DrC PhD.

--
costofwar.comcostofwar.comOpen ↗ www.unicef.org/sowc02/g31.htm

"DRCEEPHD" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Subject: How many are healthy?

Quoted message said:

How many of you have checked your stool for its pH? Acidic
is healthy, basic is diseased.

Dang! The [censored] on the litmus paper makes it hard to compare
to the color chart.

Quoted message said:

To define a healthy colon correctly is the first thing one
must do.

No, Mr. C, the first thing for YOU to do is remove your head
from the distal region of your colon and learn a little
about human anatomy and physiology.

--Rich

Also when the doctor asks you question like "Is there any
blood in your stool?" That means is there any blood in your
stool, not whether you think that the little blood flecks
you have seen in your stool or nothing to worry about. I
wish everyone was educated on this and didn't generalise. If
I am drinking beetroot juice, then how do I know if there's
blood in my stool? Anth

"Hawki63" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:20040331130654.21977.00000350@mb-
m13.aol.com...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: How many are healthy? From: Toby Joe
[email hidden] Date: 3/30/2004 9:54 PM Pacific
Standard Time Message-id:
<[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Define "healthy".

* One which is disease free

* Free of chronic pain or discomfort

* Functioning normally, even if not optimally

Toby

I would surmise (guess) that the answer is MOST colons are

healthy...trying to

Quoted message said:

quantify it..is sorta like asking "how many women have
cramps with their period?)...I cannot see why it matters..

I used to perform flex sigmoidoscopies (screening... as
in...preventative

and

Quoted message said:

early detection)..

I would estimate that I did in the range of
10,000.,,,,,,,I did find

polyps in

Quoted message said:

maybe a few %% of people...almost none were malignant..

Divertics as I said are common...but not problem

Frank cancers are pretty frightening to see...and almost
always obvious

as BAD

Quoted message said:

things....amazing how many folks reported NO
symptoms..even when having a

nasty

Quoted message said:

looking tumor...tho one wonders if "stool discussions" are
taboo..esp with older folks

I would strongly urge ALL folks over 50..and ALL folks
with symptoms..esp blood...to have colon cancer
screening...

hawki.....

Use a blender? Anth

"Rich Shewmaker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:-NWdnQuK5t7uCffdRVn-
[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Dang! The [censored] on the litmus paper makes it hard to
compare to the color chart. --Rich

On Wed, 31 Mar 2004 23:49:11 +0100, "Anth" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Also when the doctor asks you question like "Is there any
blood in your stool?"

My doctor does not ask if there is any blood in stool.
He/she does ask if the stools have changed in color, are
tarry, dark or appear to have red blood.

Quoted message said:

That means is there any blood in your stool, not whether
you think that the little blood flecks you have seen in
your stool or nothing to worry about. I wish everyone
was educated on this and didn't generalise. If I am
drinking beetroot juice, then how do I know if there's
blood in my stool?

By doing a stool guaiac test.

Aloha,

Rich

-------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------

The best defense to logic is ignorance

(Hawki63) said:

Quoted message said:

From: Toby Joe [email hidden]

Quoted message said:

Define "healthy".

* One which is disease free
* Free of chronic pain or discomfort
* Functioning normally, even if not optimally

Toby

I would surmise (guess) that the answer is MOST colons
are healthy

Not among older people, according to this ref (one from your
lot yesterday): Every second person over 60 yrs has
diverticulosis.

And between 10 and 25% of those will develop diverticulitis.
www.dccc.edu/studentservices/health/diver.htm (I'll see if I
can find some figures for younger age groups).

Quoted message said:

...trying to quantify it..is sorta like asking "how many
women have cramps with their period?)

We have pretty much accepted period pain as "normal"... But
I don't accept that having diverticulosis is the sign of a
healthy colon.

Quoted message said:

...I cannot see why it matters..

Because the implied argument against any need for trying
colonics, afaict, is that there is no need of them as most
people have healthy colons. So, I am questioning whether
that is so, and trying to find out how many people do have
healthy colons.

Quoted message said:

I used to perform flex sigmoidoscopies (screening... as
in...preventative and early detection)..

I would estimate that I did in the range of
10,000.,,,,,,,I did find polyps in maybe a few %% of
people...almost none were malignant..

Divertics as I said are common...but not problem

A truly healthy colon wouldn't have diverticulosis. And,
'Osis is a precursor for 'Itis, by which time it really
is serious.

Quoted message said:

Frank cancers are pretty frightening to see...and almost
always obvious as BAD things....amazing how many folks
reported NO symptoms..even when having a nasty looking
tumor...tho one wonders if "stool discussions" are
taboo..esp with older folks

Or just avoided, which I can understand. Takes a bit of
determination to even discuss this. Which is why I've not
read up on it before.

Quoted message said:

I would strongly urge ALL folks over 50..and ALL folks
with symptoms..esp blood...to have colon cancer
screening...

Yeah. And those screenings would give the person a chance to
have the general health of their own colon evaluated, not
just for cancer or precancerous polyps, but more generally.
Eg, Many diverts? Many polyps? Are they large or small? any
minor inflamation? potential for blockages
- narrowing, etc? colon enlarged? and anything else.

--
costofwar.comcostofwar.comOpen ↗ www.unicef.org/sowc02/g31.htm

On 01 Apr 2004 00:04:57 GMT, Toby Joe <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

(Hawki63) said:

Quoted message said:

From: Toby Joe [email hidden]
> Define "healthy".

* One which is disease free
* Free of chronic pain or discomfort
* Functioning normally, even if not optimally

Toby

I would surmise (guess) that the answer is MOST colons
are healthy

Not among older people, according to this ref (one from
your lot yesterday): Every second person over 60 yrs has
diverticulosis.

Have you considered that the development of diverticulosis
is genetic and age related and that perhaps there is not
much one can do to prevent it other than to (maybe) eat a
high fiber diet and not stain while having bowel movement??
Is there any evidence that colonics will reduce the
incidence of diverticuli??

Quoted message said:

And between 10 and 25% of those will develop
diverticulitis.
www.dccc.edu/studentservices/health/diver.htm (I'll see if
I can find some figures for younger age groups).

That would mean that between 5 and 12% of people over 60 has
diverticulitis. That seems rather high to me. In any case
what evidence is there that colonics will reduce the
incidence of diverticulitis??

It is one thing to identify a problem and quite another to
come up with a solution to the problem. You need to have
some evidence of efficacy before recommending a treatment
that potentially can cause harm.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

...trying to quantify it..is sorta like asking "how many
women have cramps with their period?)

We have pretty much accepted period pain as "normal"... But
I don't accept that having diverticulosis is the sign of a
healthy colon.

Maybe having diverticulosis is a part of aging. If you get
old enough you will probably end up getting it. But most of
the time it is asymptomatic and causes no problems.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

...I cannot see why it matters..

Because the implied argument against any need for trying
colonics, afaict, is that there is no need of them as most
people have healthy colons.

You persistently suggest that colonics can be useful without
providing any objective evidence of this. I would ask you
again but it is obvious that you will not respond.

Quoted message said:

So, I am questioning whether that is so, and trying to
find out how many people do have healthy colons.

If someone has diverticulosis and has no symptoms and no
problems secondary to the diverticuli then would you say
that they had unhealthy colons??

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I used to perform flex sigmoidoscopies (screening... as
in...preventative and early detection)..

I would estimate that I did in the range of
10,000.,,,,,,,I did find polyps in maybe a few %% of
people...almost none were malignant..

Divertics as I said are common...but not problem

A truly healthy colon wouldn't have diverticulosis.

How do you know that?? Like I said if you get old enough
maybe almost everyone will get them. They could be just a
normal part of aging. How many people have diverticulosis
and lead otherwise normal healthy lives never even knowing
that they had them??

Quoted message said:

And, 'Osis is a precursor for 'Itis, by which time it
really is serious.

Indeed it could be. Aging causes lots of changes in the
body. Until we discover the fountain of youth there may not
be much to be done.

Aloha,

Rich

-------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------

The best defense to logic is ignorance

Say not the Struggle nought Availeth <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

DRCEEPHD said:

To define a healthy colon correctly is the first thing
one must do.

DrC PhD.

So why do you say that your stool is acidic?

j.

Just how acidic?

can you give a range?

I use narrow range pH paper readily availabe at any
laboratory supply house or some local health food stores
with a range of 5 to 8.

Acidic stool will usually test to be 6.5 to 6.9 pH. Just lay
the paper on the stool. The moisture in the stool will
penetrate the paper and give you a color response.

Testing the saliva is also important and much easier to do.

Test the salvia first thing in the morning. Also, after two
hours of no food or acidic drinks ( like colas or fruit
drinks ) chew on a cracker and swallow it. Take a second
bite and chew and chew and chew. When your mouth is so full
of cracker and saliva you either have to swallow or spit it
out...spit it out and look at it. It should be very small
particles to creamy and very liquid depending upon how much
enzyme activty you have and how well your teeth fit
together. Test the pH as well. It should be 7.2 to over 8.

An inability to do this ( go alkaline ) means you are
mineral deficient and internally acidic. How deficient and
how acidic is anybody's guess. If you are like some cancer
patients, your saliva will remain acidic, meaning you cannot
properly digest carbohydrates, which may explain the wasting
aspect of some cancer treatments.

Hope this helps.

DrC PhD

In article <[email hidden]>,

DRCEEPHD said:

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: How many are healthy? From: Say not the
Struggle nought Availeth [email hidden] Date: 3/30/04
10:29 PM Eastern Standard Time Message-id:
<[email hidden]>

So why do you say that your stool is acidic?

j.

The majority of the things you read are based upon a study
of some disease or the treatment of some disease.

If you search around, you will also find data on
healthy humans. Not as many studies on health as there
are on disease.

Healthy blood is alkaline. Healthy saliva is alkaline. The
healthy stomach can go from alkaline to very acidic in
order to digest food.

I researched this subject at one point, and as far as I can
recall, "Dr" Cee is, as usual, quite wrong. The stomach is
always acidic.

-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net These are my
opinions only, but they're almost always correct. "If I
have not seen as far as others, it is because giants were
standing on my shoulders." (Hal Abelson, MIT)