How many 2x20's?

DGP said:

I've been cycling for ~4 years, previously a moto-x racer with a lot running (bad knee injury=no more of that). I got into cycling for run/fitness and for the first 2 years most of my riding could be characterized as LSD, with 2 hr weekday rides and weekend rides @ 75-100miles. The past year work/family only allows 8-9 hours/wk for riding. I have young children, so I spend a lot of time on the E-Motion Rollers.
I'm trying to make the best of the time I have available, so I do a lot of intervals like 2x20's and variations like 2x30's, 3x15, etc.. I have a powertap and I estimate my FTP to be 260watts. Typical 2x20's are in the 225-235 watt range, sometimes more/less. I can usually do 2 days in a row, then the third day my legs are dead. My question is, how many intervals like this are recommended in say 1 week? My goals for next years are time trials, so I'm going to need to increase that FTP.

Thanks in advance!

I'd leave a rest day between sets. If you're doing them properly and it sounds like you are, then you'll need either a rest day or an easier day between the hard sessions. If you want to ride every day then take 10 watts off your effort and try that for a week or two.

During the winter I'll work upto 3x25 with 5 minutes rest, effectively making it a nice 1hr 30 session but it takes time to get there. I'll do 4 sessions a week, Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday and Sunday but Sundays session is normally a bit grim and sometimes I'm not hitting the numbers that I want to hit... During that session I'll knock it down 10 watts and see how things are.

I'd rather do the session at a slightly lower wattage than not do it at all. I'll drop it another 10 watts if needs be but from then on it's a case of gritting your teeth and dealing with it unless forcing it starts to lead to feelings of iminent cramp or feeling of undue muscle pain that differs from that of a hard effort. Often you'll get mid way through the second interval and you'll start to feel better.

Things that make the sessions easier - big fan. Bigger the better. Some people listen to music or watch movies... I used to listen to music but found that without it I'd be riding 10 watts higher just because I'm concentrating on the ride more.

You may/may not go through periods of being bored sh1tless and wonder why you're sitting on bike fcuked out of your head in your garage/kitchen/bedroom - have something that helps you remember what your goals are. I have a really cool picture of a mountain road which reminds me that I need to lose weight and gain power...

Have 'fun'.

As many as you can do without feeling "toasted". Myself, I do back to back L4 work with the 3rd day, typically, being L3. If I feel like I've "got the legs", I'll pick up the intensity. If not, I'll stay with the L3 stuff.

You need to take the time to figure out what works for you and your schedule/goals. Training by/with power can help to shorten that exploratory period significantly.

Dave

Year round I try to do 2x20's twice a week at the 95-102 percent of FTP that seems to be the acceptable range for L4 training. These tend to be brutal and I usually have a lot harder time with holding my second 20 at the same level as my first. I have been able to slowly creep and I do mean creep my FTP up slowly over the last year using this as the main stay of my indoor interval training.
One thing that I will say about this type of training is that I can stay on the front pack a lot longer than in the past which is a big boost for my road racing performance.

DGP, if your FTP is 260 and you typically ride at 235 watts, then it'd probably be better for you (both timewise and fitnesswise) to just ride one interval at 60 minutes. If you are doing 2X20s, you might want to raise your power up to 95% So you'd be doing them at like 247 (and higher, like before your races).

There's nothing wrong with doing 20s on consecutive days. 2 or 3 days straight works if you're getting enough carbs in your diet. If your legs are dead on that third day, which you can probably tell during your warmup, ride some tempo instead. That can even be challenging when your legs are dead, but you've gotta push yourself sometimes. Then take a recovery day.

A common workout for me is either 2X20 or 3X20 with some tempo and microintervals afterwards. Workout done in two hours on the trainer.

I've heard of people doing 4X20 and even 5X20 workouts, by the way. Ouch.

You didn't mention tempo or VO2 work, but I'm assuming you're programming some of that in during the year.

Are you using WKO? With that, figuring out what you can do and what you need to do is pretty straightforward. Just program a lot of 20s and tempo so that you're progressing up 5 to 8 points a week.

Thanks for all the replies.
I started doing 2x20 intervals around 7 months ago and saw good improvements, but then sort of hit a plateau. I think based on some of the replies that I'm making a couple of basic mistakes - not going hard enough & not resting enough. I also don't use WKO (I'm using power agent) - which would probably be helpful.