How long do suspension forks last?

In article <[email hidden]>,

Mike Beauchamp said:

I just bought a Giant Iguana
<http://www.giant-bicycle.com/cn/030.000.000/030.000.000.asp?lYear=2004&bikese
ction=8816&range=140&model=9916>
that has a Manitou Six Sport
<http://www.answerproducts.com/items.asp?deptid=1&itemid=25&cvar1=11%2F13%2F20
04+9%3A34%3A00+PM>
suspension fork on it.

Ah, the Manitou Six is a "coil/MCU" fork, which I believe is Manitou's
euphemism for "bit of rubber acting as a spring damper." This isn't good
in terms of performance, and the rubber damper is likely the first part
that will go inside the fork.

But it should take some time and not do fatal damage.

Quoted message said:

It does a good job thus far, especially on a $630 CDN bicycle. But, I can't
help thinking it is the weakest link on the bike, preventing it from lasting
at least another 10 years.

Quoted message said:

I cant help but think that the recent trend of putting suspension forks on
even the cheapest bicycle help has two great reasons. 1) It makes the bike
look cooler and more expensive (mimicking xc bikes and dh bikes). 2) It
works PERFECTLY for planned obsolecence or whatever.

Suspension forks are essentially mandatory equipment if you want to sell
a mountain-ish bike today. The presence of the fork is more important
than the performance, sadly.

Quoted message said:

A bike is something that lasts way longer than most things, including cars.
That's gotta suck for a company trying to sell more bikes.. so stick on some
suspension forks that will fail before the rest of the bike..

If you use this bike for serious, regular XC riding, it might actually
kill the fork internals, but they are probably replacable, and the whole
fork can definitely be replaced.

But if you aren't, don't worry. Lube the fork regularly using the
provided grease ports, and ten years should be an easy goal.

--
Ryan Cousineau, [email hidden] http://www.wiredcola.com
Verus de parvis; verus de magnis.

Quoted message said:

But if you aren't, don't worry. Lube the fork regularly using the
provided grease ports, and ten years should be an easy goal.

Yeah, The fork came with no separate documentation, but Manitou does have
the service manuals and such online. Their site also has the special nozzle
to pump grease into the fork, which I probably should get. I also noticed
that the service manual shows 3 different ride kits.. maybe I'll also look
into ordering one of those somehow.

Thanks for the info..

Mike
http://mikebeauchamp.com

Mike Beauchamp said:

I just bought a Giant Iguana
<http://www.giant-bicycle.com/cn/030.000.000/030.000.000.asp?lYear=2004&bikesection=8816&range=140&model=9916>
that has a Manitou Six Sport
<http://www.answerproducts.com/items.asp?deptid=1&itemid=25&cvar1=11%2F13%2F2004+9%3A34%3A00+PM>
suspension fork on it.

It does a good job thus far, especially on a $630 CDN bicycle. But, I can't
help thinking it is the weakest link on the bike, preventing it from lasting
at least another 10 years (like my last bike did, until it got stolen.. long
may you run..).
Mike
http://mikebeauchamp.com

You could have bought a cheaper bike with a rigid fork; for about C$60
you can probably get a rigid steel fork to fit your Giant. Or you
could keep the Manitou clean and lubed, replace the elastomers maybe
once, and you'd still have transport for <$1.50 per week for the next
ten years. Planned obsolescence? I can live with it as long as the
cost of bicycles halves in real terms every 10 years.

Kinky Cowboy*

*Batteries not included
May contain traces of nuts
Your milage may vary

Mike Beauchamp said:

I just bought a Giant Iguana
<http://www.giant-bicycle.com/cn/030.000.000/030.000.000.asp?lYear=2004&bikesection=8816&range=140&model=9916>
that has a Manitou Six Sport
<http://www.answerproducts.com/items.asp?deptid=1&itemid=25&cvar1=11%2F13%2F2004+9%3A34%3A00+PM>
suspension fork on it.

It does a good job thus far, especially on a $630 CDN bicycle. But, I can't
help thinking it is the weakest link on the bike, preventing it from lasting
at least another 10 years (like my last bike did, until it got stolen.. long
may you run..).

I cant help but think that the recent trend of putting suspension forks on
even the cheapest bicycle help has two great reasons. 1) It makes the bike
look cooler and more expensive (mimicking xc bikes and dh bikes). 2) It
works PERFECTLY for planned obsolecence or whatever.

A bike is something that lasts way longer than most things, including cars.
That's gotta suck for a company trying to sell more bikes.. so stick on some
suspension forks that will fail before the rest of the bike..

All mainstream MTBs now have 1 1/8" headtubes, so when the fork's
knackered you just buy a new fork. No need to replace the whole bike.

Mike Beauchamp says...

Quoted message said:

A bike is something that lasts way longer than most things, including cars.
That's gotta suck for a company trying to sell more bikes.. so stick on some
suspension forks that will fail before the rest of the bike..

If the fork screws up, put on a rigid fork for <$100 CDN installed. I
agree I would take a rigid fork over a cheap suspension fork any day.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Mike Beauchamp said:

Quoted message said:

But if you aren't, don't worry. Lube the fork regularly using the
provided grease ports, and ten years should be an easy goal.

Yeah, The fork came with no separate documentation, but Manitou does have
the service manuals and such online. Their site also has the special nozzle
to pump grease into the fork, which I probably should get. I also noticed
that the service manual shows 3 different ride kits.. maybe I'll also look
into ordering one of those somehow.

Thanks for the info..

It also occurs to me that I should tell you about my own datapoint:

I own a Kona Kilauea with a '97 Marzocchi Z.2 fork (65 mm travel, coil
spring and oil damping). When I got it, the seals were shot, the oil
needed changing, and the damping was virtually nonexistent.

I put in a fresh set of Enduro fork seals, changed the oil, generally
made sure everything inside was clean, and reassembled the fork. It's
good as new. The internals showed no significant wear or damage.

So there you go: fork is nearly 8 years old, has seen (from the looks of
the bike and from what I have done to it), considerable use, and I
expect it will provide years more service with nothing more than an
annual oil change.

--
Ryan Cousineau, [email hidden] http://www.wiredcola.com
Verus de parvis; verus de magnis.

Quoted message said:

could keep the Manitou clean and lubed, replace the elastomers maybe
once,

No new forks use elastomers anymore.
--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

Awesome..
I still have my old Mag 21 that used to be on the bike that got ripped off,
when I did xc racing on it. As far as I remember, it was working perfectly
fine when I took it off after 3 years of racing.

Mike
http://mikebeauchamp.com

"Ryan Cousineau" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Mike Beauchamp said:

Quoted message said:

But if you aren't, don't worry. Lube the fork regularly using the
provided grease ports, and ten years should be an easy goal.

Yeah, The fork came with no separate documentation, but Manitou does have
the service manuals and such online. Their site also has the special
nozzle
to pump grease into the fork, which I probably should get. I also noticed
that the service manual shows 3 different ride kits.. maybe I'll also
look
into ordering one of those somehow.

Thanks for the info..

It also occurs to me that I should tell you about my own datapoint:

I own a Kona Kilauea with a '97 Marzocchi Z.2 fork (65 mm travel, coil
spring and oil damping). When I got it, the seals were shot, the oil
needed changing, and the damping was virtually nonexistent.

I put in a fresh set of Enduro fork seals, changed the oil, generally
made sure everything inside was clean, and reassembled the fork. It's
good as new. The internals showed no significant wear or damage.

So there you go: fork is nearly 8 years old, has seen (from the looks of
the bike and from what I have done to it), considerable use, and I
expect it will provide years more service with nothing more than an
annual oil change.

--
Ryan Cousineau, [email hidden] http://www.wiredcola.com
Verus de parvis; verus de magnis.

Quoted message said:

All mainstream MTBs now have 1 1/8" headtubes, so when the fork's >
knackered you just buy a new fork. No need to replace the whole bike.

I didn't mean that the "planned obsolecence" thing applies to the people
that hang out in rec.bicycles.tech, since we all obviously know how to swap
out of a fork. I'm just staying that for the average customer of something
like a low end good bike down to a [censored] walmart bike, the fork will probably
[censored] out first.. and then they'll just get a whole new bike.

Mike
http://mikebeauchamp.com

Quoted message said:

If the fork screws up, put on a rigid fork for <$100 CDN installed. I
agree I would take a rigid fork over a cheap suspension fork any day.

Yeah.. it's odd that rigid forks cost so much money though.. $100 seems much
for a straight guage steel fork.

Mike Beauchamp said:

I cant help but think that the recent trend of putting suspension forks on
even the cheapest bicycle help has two great reasons. 1) It makes the bike
look cooler and more expensive (mimicking xc bikes and dh bikes). 2) It
works PERFECTLY for planned obsolecence or whatever.

A bike is something that lasts way longer than most things, including
cars. That's gotta suck for a company trying to sell more bikes.. so stick
on some suspension forks that will fail before the rest of the bike..

Mike
http://mikebeauchamp.com

I agree. I have a fork that leaks oil on my Specialized Stumpjumper FS from
1993. I can't fix it because the parts are no longer available. I believe
the Specialized Future Shock fork (with adjustable knobs on top for
lockout?) on the bike is basically the same as the Rock Shox Mag 20 and Rock
Shox doesn't support anything more than a few years old. The bike is
perfectly fine otherwise. I bought the bike new on sale for $700 (retail
$1100?) in 1993. It has a very nice Tange Prestige steel frame, and I have
replaced some worn or broken parts over the years - overall it's in great
shape except for the fork. Replacing the fork would cost more than the bike
is worth because it would require more than just a fork. It has a threaded
headset (at least it's 1 1/8"😉, so I would need a new fork, new threadless
headset and new threadless stem. New forks don't have a hanger for
cantilever brakes, so I would also need a pair of V-brakes for the front,
which would also require new front brake levers. Since my Rapid-fire plus
levers are integrated with the brake lever, I would need new front shifters
too. Arggh!!! My road bike is even older, from 1987, but I have no
problems keeping that going with parts.

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

t also occurs to me that I should tell you about my own datapoint:

I own a Kona Kilauea with a '97 Marzocchi Z.2 fork (65 mm travel, coil
spring and oil damping). When I got it, the seals were shot, the oil
needed changing, and the damping was virtually nonexistent.

I put in a fresh set of Enduro fork seals, changed the oil, generally
made sure everything inside was clean, and reassembled the fork. It's
good as new. The internals showed no significant wear or damage.

So there you go: fork is nearly 8 years old, has seen (from the looks of
the bike and from what I have done to it), considerable use, and I
expect it will provide years more service with nothing more than an
annual oil change.

I have the same fork (from new) and it is still like new. Marzocchi used
to say to change the oil every hundred hours riding which I more or less
do unless on a long trip (it gets a silver colour quickly in the leg with
a damper). I met a couple half way around Australia with Z2's that
didn't know you were supposed to EVER change the oil. Their forks were
working fine and I think they had about 10,000Km on that trip plus
whatever the bikes had done prior. They didn't believe me when I told
them about oil changes either.

Mike Beauchamp says...

Quoted message said:

Yeah.. it's odd that rigid forks cost so much money though.. $100 seems much
for a straight guage steel fork.

Oh, I don't know. They can't give them away, and $100 CDN doesn't buy
much these days. Of course, with current exchange rates, a CDN dollar is
worth $0.83 American. That's the highest I remember seeing, although I
really don't check it very often.

Those old forks are built tough! I replaced the my rigid fork (it didn't
like the high speed impact with the BIG boulder) on my Stumpjumper with the
Specialized Future Shock in '93. It has been through some pretty serious
abuse (including a trip to the bottom of a river- bikes seem very heavy
under water!) and has NEVER had the oil changed nor any added. I open it up
once every couple of years to check it and it has remained clear and nearly
full. Yes, I may be neglecting it, but as mentioned the parts are
non-existent and upgrade costs too much. Sometimes servicing something can
cause trouble so I choose not to mess with it. Does it work like a new fork?
Very doubtful. Can I still leave my friends behind? Yes. It soaks up the big
hits "well enough".

-Randy

Quoted message said:

I agree. I have a fork that leaks oil on my Specialized Stumpjumper FS
from 1993. I can't fix it because the parts are no longer available. I
believe the Specialized Future Shock fork (with adjustable knobs on top
for lockout?) on the bike is basically the same as the Rock Shox Mag 20
and Rock Shox doesn't support anything more than a few years old. The
bike is perfectly fine otherwise. I bought the bike new on sale for $700
(retail $1100?) in 1993. It has a very nice Tange Prestige steel frame,
and I have replaced some worn or broken parts over the years - overall
it's in great shape except for the fork. Replacing the fork would cost
more than the bike is worth because it would require more than just a
fork. It has a threaded headset (at least it's 1 1/8"😉, so I would need a
new fork, new threadless headset and new threadless stem. New forks don't
have a hanger for cantilever brakes, so I would also need a pair of
V-brakes for the front, which would also require new front brake levers.
Since my Rapid-fire plus levers are integrated with the brake lever, I
would need new front shifters too. Arggh!!! My road bike is even older,
from 1987, but I have no problems keeping that going with parts.

Me said:

Those old forks are built tough! I replaced the my rigid fork (it didn't
like the high speed impact with the BIG boulder) on my Stumpjumper with
the Specialized Future Shock in '93. It has been through some pretty
serious abuse (including a trip to the bottom of a river- bikes seem very
heavy under water!) and has NEVER had the oil changed nor any added. I
open it up once every couple of years to check it and it has remained
clear and nearly full. Yes, I may be neglecting it, but as mentioned the
parts are non-existent and upgrade costs too much. Sometimes servicing
something can cause trouble so I choose not to mess with it. Does it work
like a new fork? Very doubtful. Can I still leave my friends behind? Yes.
It soaks up the big hits "well enough".

-Randy

I admit that I never serviced my Future Shock forks either. When oil
started dripping down one side and onto the front hub and rim a couple of
years ago, I started thinking about it, but then I found out the parts were
non-existent. The recommended service intervals are ridiculous... something
like every couple hundred miles or 2 months or so? My car has 170,000 miles
on it and I don't believe the shocks have ever needed servicing or
replacement. Why do bike forks stink so much that they need so much
servicing? Especially considering how expensive most aftermarket models
cost. Do off-road motorcycle forks/shocks need constant service too?

I just ride the bike the way it is now and don't worry about fork
performance. I haven't even tried any forks more up to date because of my
experience with this one. Why look for trouble? For the same reason, I
don't see myself looking for a full suspension mountain bike anything soon
unless I become suddenly rich. They have the distasteful combination of
being both expensive and disposable (how desirable are 3-5 year old full
suspension bikes? much less the 20+ years that I'm willing to put into a
road bike) . I'd switch to a rigid fork if it were a simple swap - meaning
it was threaded and the right length both below and above the crown - and
the right color (silver, because I don't want a thrown together look), and
cheap. I'm sure such forks exist, but it would be like finding a needle in
a haystack browsing for something like that on Ebay.

Mike Beauchamp said:

I just bought a Giant Iguana
<http://www.giant-bicycle.com/cn/030.000.000/030.000.000.asp?lYear=2004&bikesection=8816&range=140&model=9916>
that has a Manitou Six Sport
<http://www.answerproducts.com/items.asp?deptid=1&itemid=25&cvar1=11%2F13%2F2004+9%3A34%3A00+PM>
suspension fork on it.

It does a good job thus far, especially on a $630 CDN bicycle. But, I can't
help thinking it is the weakest link on the bike, preventing it from lasting
at least another 10 years (like my last bike did, until it got stolen.. long
may you run..).

Why not purchase a couple rebuild kits now? When you need them in 5-7
years you will have them. - that gives you 15-21 years fork life. Hell,
if you never use them you can sell them to a desperate soul that has has
the same fork.

--

Let the bridges I burn light my way...

Quoted post said:

... I can't fix it because the parts are no longer available.

What parts are that? Usually the big culprit is the seals, and seals of many dimensions are "readily" available from a store that sells stuff for industry maintenance. I rebuilt an old crappy RST fork that had seized using only generic spare parts some years ago.

Quoted post said:

so I would also need a pair of V-brakes for the front, which would also require new front brake levers.

...or you can use a travel agent. They need frequent cleaning but they do the trick. [/QUOTE]

In article <[email hidden]>, whatsupandrewathotmaildotcom
says...

Quoted message said:

My car has 170,000 miles
on it and I don't believe the shocks have ever needed servicing or
replacement.

That's the problem. If you had replaced them they wouldn't be shocks.
They would be shock abosorbers. That's really what you want to maintain
a safe car.
------------
Alex

Alex Rodriguez said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
whatsupandrewathotmaildotcom
says...

Quoted message said:

My car has 170,000 miles
on it and I don't believe the shocks have ever needed servicing or
replacement.

That's the problem. If you had replaced them they wouldn't be shocks.
They would be shock abosorbers. That's really what you want to maintain
a safe car.
------------
Alex

I'm not sure what you're getting at. I can read you statement in at least
two ways. Are to talking about the difference between shocks and shock
absorbers, as in one provides both spring and damping and alignment in bikes
and that the functions are separated in cars and are objecting to my
comparison and my shorthand use of the term "shocks", or are you using the
term "shocks" in a different manner? If the first, how about motorcycle
front fork/shock(?) maintainence. Not having experience with motorcycles or
much knowledge of them, I can't say, but I highly doubt people would
tolerate motorcycles that required fork overhauls every couple hundred
miles. My car is safe to drive in any case.