How good are American Vehicles?

1971 Chevy Nova:Owned it from 1975 - 1978...Replaced one distributor.
1975 Toyota Corolla: Owned it from 1978 - 1984...Replaced battery and alternator.
1984 Datsun 200SX: Owned it from 1984 - 1991...Replaced alternator bracket.
1984 Ford E150 Conversion Van: Owned it 1991 - 1997...Replaced Battery, Starter, EGR Valve, Water Pump, Hoses.
1993 Ford Probe GT: Owned it from 1997 - 2003...Replaced water pump, battery, Harmonic Balancer-Pully Assembly, Hoses, Timing Belt, Idle Air Control Valve, exhaust system, and three front drive half shafts with CV Joints.
2002 F150 Pick-up: Owned it from 2003 - present...No repairs

The list above does not include preventative maintenance such as oil changes, tires, filter replacements, and brake pad replacements. I performed all of the maintenance procedures and repairs my self on all of these vehicles except for the 1993 Ford Probe. It was a fun car but parts were extremely expensive and repairs were extremely difficult because there was no room to work on the engine. The 1975 Toyota Corolla was probably the best car that I owned. It had a 1600cc engine and a 4-speed manual transmission in it. It also had 275,000 miles on it when it was hit from behind by a Camaro. It did get excellent fuel mileage, 35 miles per gallon city and nearly 40 MPG on the highway.

The 1984 Ford E-150 Conversion Van was hit three times, first by a Grand Am that lost its fender, scratched the van and flattened a tire. The second time was by a Chevy Van that dented its fender and put a mark on the Ford's bumper, and the last time it was parked in my parents driveway when a Camaro jumped the curb, hit the back of my father's truck pushing it into the van, and then buried itself up to the windshield under the van. When the tow truck drug the Camaro out from under the van, there was a small dent and hole behind the bumper but no other damage. I finally had to sell it because the engine had started to use a lot of oil after 210,000 miles. There is no way that I could afford to drive these days as it had two 40 gallon fuel tanks and got around 12 miles per gallon on the highway.

Best car I have owned is my 2000 Honda Civic four door. 1.4 liter engine, SOHC. Very good mileage, I drive it to work every day, currently 125,000 km. Have replaced the car battery, the normal city light front light bulb, and one set of windsheild wipers.

Tied for first is my 2002 Fiat Panda (old model). Bare bones car, two door, no optionals, so nothing to break. Never any trouble. Did great until I rear-ended a Volkswagen Golf. 1400 Euro of damage (most of the front end was gone), sold it same day to a car repair shop for 1500.

Family car is a Toyota Corolla Verso (minivan-ish)... 1.8 liter. Full optional. Only 60,000 km but nothing to say about the car or service...

This is a graph of GM's market share decline. It tells you all you need to know about how good american vehicles are. I think GM's share is under 22% today. With gas heading to $5.00/gal this summer, their truck/SUV sales will fall off a cliff. If you were to subtract out the fleet sales to get the autos bought by real customers then the situation looks even worse. It's not impossible that GM will go bankrupt in two years.

Here is Ford's market share. :eek:

I won't mention Chrysler since they were bought by a private equity fund and they will definitely cease to exist in the near future. Chrysler will be sold off in pieces.

Bro Deal, do you think companies like GM will begin to import and rebadge some of their European models (they have a rather large line-up of quite decent cars with Opel here in the Old World - small cars with very good mileage and the like.

Powerful Pete said:

Bro Deal, do you think companies like GM will begin to import and rebadge some of their European models (they have a rather large line-up of quite decent cars with Opel here in the Old World - small cars with very good mileage and the like.

The biggest problem with importing and rebadgeing their cars would be safety and environmental related. US safety standards tend to be a little tighter than their European counterparts and there are also differing anti-pollution concerns. Retrofitting these cars to bring them into compliance could add too much to the price of the car to be feasible.

Powerful Pete said:

Bro Deal, do you think companies like GM will begin to import and rebadge some of their European models (they have a rather large line-up of quite decent cars with Opel here in the Old World - small cars with very good mileage and the like.

Saturn is already made up of rebadged Opels. I am not familiar with Opel's lineup, but anything fuel efficient is likely they will end up in the U.S., probably as a Saturn.

Detroit does so much rebadging and badge engineering that it is hard to keep track of everything. It seems they have mostly given up making their own small car platforms; they find it easier to slap a new name on Daewoos and such.

I wonder when Toyota will bring the Aygo over here. Although those are so small they might not meet U.S. crash standards. They are rather cute. With 50+ mpg and the right marketting campaign...

I think Fiat is planning on reentering the U.S. market. It would be freakin' hilarious to see americans driving around in Pandas and 500s. Americans trading in their land yaughts to drive itty bitty cars. Oh, the humanity. 😄

Bro Deal said:

It's not impossible that GM will go bankrupt in two years.

GM has been realistically bankrupt for over 20 years IMO (more like 30). Only financial accounting smoke and mirrors have kept them afloat. If plant and machinery were depreciated realistically to reflect replacement costs (a more realistic picture) and the true future cost of pension plans were factored into today's earnings.... kapoof... company is an UN-going concern.

Negative net cash flows propped up by new debt issuance based on false earnings.

American engineering - WW 2 stuff like airplanes - beat the Japanese good time. I wish they could do it with cars and great fuel economy! I'm kinda glad they suffer now when they laughed at Toyota and Honda for coming out with hybrids. They were given money and a big US Gov program to make hybrid in the 90's, but they did nothing!

Powerful Pete - I drive a 1999 Honda Civic HX! It's modded, and it gets me 44 mpg weekly tanks on 80% hwy miles. Did a long road trip, first 143 miles at 65 mph A/C on and off every 5 miles - 46.3 mpg! I save so much on gas with this car! When it's fully hooked up I'll show it off in a thread! Mine has a 1.6L engine. What kind of mpg do you get on your 1.4L?

I've owned 15 domestics, NO MORE. I now have a 05 Honda Odyssey, an 04 Nissan Titan (work truck), and a 95 Accord - 160K miles and a right front wheel bearing and an AC recharge are the only repairs, still has the original tranny fluid. All are far superior in quality and reliablity over any of the domestics I've owned. The Titan is by far the best truck I've owned, tremendous power increase over the Silverados and F150s I've had, not to mention much better handling and comfort. Nissan and Dodge have a deal going on now that will rebadge Rams as Titans and Dodge will get the Versa to rebadge. I'll buy a new Titan before the switch and that will probably be my last Nissan truck. It sucks when they screw up a great thing. I'll never own another domestic vehicle. Even my lawn mower and tractor are Honda. All of my gas powered equipment (I'm a contractor) are Honda powered. My street bike is a Honda and my Quad is a Suzuki. The quality just can't be beat.

Whoa stlblues. How many internal combustion machines do you own? 😉

Powerful Pete said:

Whoa stlblues. How many internal combustion machines do you own? 😉

Being a contractor, a bunch. Lawn tractor (just over an acre yard to take care of), lawn mower for those places the tractor won't fit, string trimmer, 3 chain saws, auger, power washer, generator, tiller, motorcycle, ATV, car, minivan, truck. Most including the truck and ATV are for business purposes.

stlblues said:

Being a contractor, a bunch. Lawn tractor (just over an acre yard to take care of), lawn mower for those places the tractor won't fit, string trimmer, 3 chain saws, auger, power washer, generator, tiller, motorcycle, ATV, car, minivan, truck. Most including the truck and ATV are for business purposes.

And you wonder why gas is $4.00 a gallon😄.

kdelong said:

And you wonder why gas is $4.00 a gallon😄.

Most are for business use, you can't build and remodel without those tools. The truck only gets driven when I have to haul larger tools or the trailer. The motorcycle gets 52mpg, the car 32 mpg, and the van 27mpg. Overall, I use less gas then most people. I can cut the yard, rather large and very hilly, 8 times on one gallon of gas. We combine trips, my wife works 5 miles from the house, but we live off a narrow rural hwy with NO shoulder and its extremely hilly, and with her being a medical proffessional, she can't show up a sweaty mess. She uses a tank of gas in the car every 4 to 5 weeks, the van gets gas every 3 weeks, and depending on the project the truck from 1 to 3 weeks. I've had several projects lately where my drive is 1 to 2 miles. I'm far from the reason for $4 gas. [censored] driving SUVs and Pickups because they want to , not for work or they have 12 kids, and Hummer driving soccer skanks are the reason. I spend as little as I possibly can on gas, but I have to work.

stlblues said:

Most are for business use, you can't build and remodel without those tools. The truck only gets driven when I have to haul larger tools or the trailer. The motorcycle gets 52mpg, the car 32 mpg, and the van 27mpg. Overall, I use less gas then most people. I can cut the yard, rather large and very hilly, 8 times on one gallon of gas. We combine trips, my wife works 5 miles from the house, but we live off a narrow rural hwy with NO shoulder and its extremely hilly, and with her being a medical proffessional, she can't show up a sweaty mess. She uses a tank of gas in the car every 4 to 5 weeks, the van gets gas every 3 weeks, and depending on the project the truck from 1 to 3 weeks. I've had several projects lately where my drive is 1 to 2 miles. I'm far from the reason for $4 gas. [censored] driving SUVs and Pickups because they want to , not for work or they have 12 kids, and Hummer driving soccer skanks are the reason. I spend as little as I possibly can on gas, but I have to work.

I feel your pain. That work thing really does get in the way of my riding time... 🙂

Powerful Pete said:

I feel your pain. That work thing really does get in the way of my riding time... 🙂

Tell me about it, they keep telling me I have to feed these darn kids.....and clothe them.....and supply medical attention, educate, they damn well better be worth it. I could be riding alot more.

Bro Deal said:

This is a graph of GM's market share decline. It tells you all you need to know about how good american vehicles are. I think GM's share is under 22% today.

Uh-oh, it's worse than I thought. GM's market share was 19.1% as of last month. They are so farked.

The good news is that Hummer may be going away. Hummer sold 76K vehicles in 2006. They have sold 3K so far this year.

Bro Deal said:

The good news is that Hummer may be going away. Hummer sold 76K vehicles in 2006. They have sold 3K so far this year.

Also gone are the Trailblazer, Tahoe, and they are talking other trucks. What will they have left? I don't see too many other GM cars around here.......the Malibu is a good try for GM, but its no Accord. I see a couple of Aveos, a beer can on wheels, most of the Impalas are state vehicles........doesn't look good for GM.

Chrysler going [censored] up?

This site linked to below claims that Chrysler has unilaterally told its suppliers that it is reducing the price on all purchase orders by 5% and at the same time it has increased its payment period from net 45 to net 60.

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/chrysler-cashflow-crisis-confirmed/all-comments/#comments

stlblues said:

Also gone are the Trailblazer, Tahoe, and they are talking other trucks. What will they have left? I don't see too many other GM cars around here.......the Malibu is a good try for GM, but its no Accord. I see a couple of Aveos, a beer can on wheels, most of the Impalas are state vehicles........doesn't look good for GM.

I read an article the showed what Toyota and Honda are paying for floor workers in Southern U.S. compared to G.M. and Ford in the union controlled Northern U.S. Toyota and Honda averaging $45/hour per employee, Ford G.M. $75/hour. These averages include benefits, ect. The difference in cost makes competition impossible.

Many don't realize Most Hondas and Toyotas are built in the USA. The vehicle most American made is the Honda Accord.