How Best to Raise Handlebars ?

Thanks, jeff, for the comments. See more of mine below.

- Magnusfarce

"JeffWills" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Magnusfarce said:

1) What are my best options for raising the handlebars on the new

bike? I

Quoted message said:

'm not keen on adjustable stems. I have seen fixed extenders for the
steering tubes (made by Delta, I think) that add about three inches
vertically. There are also angled stems that might accomplish the

task at

Quoted message said:

hand. Is it possible that the manufacturer might be able to give me

a fork

Quoted message said:

with an extra long steerer tube? Comments about these various

approaches?

Quoted message said:

Most replacement forks made for threadless headsets are delivered to
the dealer with an extra-long steerer, commonly 300 to 350mm long.
This, combined with a upwards-pointing stem, should put the handlebars
above the level of the Delta extender. You'll need to put in a bunch of
spacers (or have an extra-long one made), but it will put the
handlebars up where you need them.

Just so I'm clear, do most dealers or LBS's shorten the stems provided to
them by the manufacturer when building up a bike? If this is the case,
things just got simpler because I work with a local bike shop (Trek dealer)
whose owner is a top notch mechanic. I will speak to him about this and
maybe he can find out from Trek.

BTW, is it safe to assume that the original (longer than normal) steerer
would be stronger than any extension?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

2) How will raising the handlebars affect handling and steering? I

know

Quoted message said:

that my center of gravity will be higher. I'm also aware that this

unusual

Quoted message said:

set up will change my riding techniques completely, but that's just
something I'll have to adapt to. As I said earlier, my old bike is

really

Quoted message said:

twitchy with the bars raised so high. How can I be sure that a new

bike

Quoted message said:

like the 2100C will be better before I commit $1500?

If you were to replace the fork (in order to get the extra-long
steerer), you should also select one with less offset, in order to
increase trail. This will improve stability.

With the handlebars raised high, I'd be switching to slightly fatter
tires and a broader seat. You'll be carrying more weight on your
sitbones, so your old favorite may not suit you anymore.

Quoted message said:

In order to keep this thread under control, I'd prefer not to get

into any

Quoted message said:

extended discussions of other bikes, but rather to keep this a

question

Quoted message said:

about geometry, handling, and safety with the 2100C as my target new

bike.

Quoted message said:

FWIW, the critical geometry data for the 63cm sized 2100C are: 104cm
wheelbase, 59 top tube, 74 degree head angle, 72.5 seat angle, 4.5

offset

Quoted message said:

and 5.8 trail. With the exception of trail, these numbers are very

close to

Quoted message said:

those for my old bike.

Something's odd, then. Head angle, offset, and wheel diameter
*determine* trail. Either you're changing from a fat tire to a skinny
tire (or vice versa), or some calculation has been done improperly. Is
the new bike's trail greater or less than the old bike's? As I said,
more trail equal more stability, less trail equals more twitchiness.

I measured my old Trek 400 frame and found some stats on line as well. .
The tubes lengths, etc., were pretty straightforward. I measured the offset
and it matches the published value of 4.5 cm. However, I don't have a value
for trail on the old bike. My old bike has 700x25 tires, and the 2100C
comes with 700x28, a size which I would probably stay with long term.
Overall, I 'm thinking that more trail would be a good thing for me these
days.

Quoted message said:

FWIW: I'm your size (6' 4", 225 lbs.), but I have a collection of bikes
with a variety of different geometries. After a short adaptation
session, I usually don't notice much difference in handling qualities.

Jeff

Magnusfarce said:

Thanks, jeff, for the comments. See more of mine below.

- Magnusfarce

Just so I'm clear, do most dealers or LBS's shorten the stems

provided to

Quoted message said:

them by the manufacturer when building up a bike? If this is the

case,

Quoted message said:

things just got simpler because I work with a local bike shop (Trek

dealer)

Quoted message said:

whose owner is a top notch mechanic. I will speak to him about this

and

Quoted message said:

maybe he can find out from Trek.

BTW, is it safe to assume that the original (longer than normal)

steerer

Quoted message said:

would be stronger than any extension?

You're correct- the steerer tube is delivered that length and shortened
at the shop. Trust me- it's a lot easier to shorten it than to stretch
it.

I would think that a long steerer with spacers will be stronger than a
short steerer with an extender, but the difference is minor. The
extenders are made beefy enough for mountain bikers (I hope), so
they're probably strong enough for you.

Your "Trek dealer" probably has access to many items not sold by Trek.
If they're minimally competent, they'll have an account with Quality
Bicycle Products, an independent parts wholesaler. QBP sells lots of
parts, both normal and oddball.

FWIW: two of my six bikes are recumbents. You seem to have your heart
set on the Trek, so I went with that. 'Bents can help heal a bad back &
neck (they did mine), but they're not the be-all that some of my more
evangelical brethren make them to be. I'm of the opinion that any
human-powered conveyance is cool.

Jeff

Magnusfarce said:

I need to learn more about how to raise the handlebars on a road bike, and
what effects that will have on handling and frame strength.

A while back, I injured my neck and can no longer spend hours hunched over a
standard set of road bike handlebars with my head tilted up to see the road
in front of me. However, it is important to me to be able to ride for
exercise, so after some treatments and a couple of years healing time, I
gave it a try. I mounted a cheap adjustable stem on my old road bike and
determined that with the handlebars several inches above the seat, I can
ride moderate distances (say, up to two hours a couple or three times a
week) without aggravating the neck problem. This will allow me to do
effective workout rides in the hills around my home (lots of climbing).

The problem is that my old bike, with the adjustable stem and very high
handlebars, is just too flimsy feeling to ride long term. As a result, I'm
looking for a new bike that will handle the higher handlebars. At this
point, I'm staring very hard at the Trek 2100C, which is their "comfort"
version of a road bike. By comfort, they mean that the rider sits in a more
upright position than, say, on other pure road bikes. There are some
hybrids available (e.g., the 7700) that might also work, but I would rather
stay in a road bike format. The 2100C gives me the frame and component
group quality that I'm looking for at a price I can (almost) manage. The
extra large 63cm size should work for me (6'4", 250 heading toward 210), but
I worry about reliability and frame strength (the bike's, not mine). For
short workout rides, efficiency is no longer much of a factor. I now care
much more about bike and component strength than weight. Now, finally to my
questions:

1) What are my best options for raising the handlebars on the new bike? I
'm not keen on adjustable stems. I have seen fixed extenders for the
steering tubes (made by Delta, I think) that add about three inches
vertically. There are also angled stems that might accomplish the task at
hand. Is it possible that the manufacturer might be able to give me a fork
with an extra long steerer tube? Comments about these various approaches?

2) How will raising the handlebars affect handling and steering? I know
that my center of gravity will be higher. I'm also aware that this unusual
set up will change my riding techniques completely, but that's just
something I'll have to adapt to. As I said earlier, my old bike is really
twitchy with the bars raised so high. How can I be sure that a new bike
like the 2100C will be better before I commit $1500?

In order to keep this thread under control, I'd prefer not to get into any
extended discussions of other bikes, but rather to keep this a question
about geometry, handling, and safety with the 2100C as my target new bike.
FWIW, the critical geometry data for the 63cm sized 2100C are: 104cm
wheelbase, 59 top tube, 74 degree head angle, 72.5 seat angle, 4.5 offset
and 5.8 trail. With the exception of trail, these numbers are very close to
those for my old bike.

I want to get back to riding and need to make a good decision about the bike
and set up I choose. Any help would be much appreciated.

- Magnusfarce

Trek 2100 comes 25 degree rise stem and road handle bars with 25.4 mm (mountain bicycle sized) diameter. Delta makes a threadless riser that adds 3.5 inches. There are a few stems out there with 40 degrees, and likely some other I don't know about.
You can always ask your Trek dealer about getting a fork with as much steering tube left un-cut and find out what they can do for you there. That would be the easiest, secure, and least expensive way. You can get the 1.125" spacers to fill in the gap. You may find the reach on the existing stem will also need to be adjusted.
In any case, I would find out what a local bicycle shop can do for you in fitting the handlebar height and reach. They will know what they can work with and what time/effort/money is likely to be involved. If you can find a Trek dealer that also has a Serotta "fit-cycle" they may be more well equipped to get your fit dialed in and then select the best avaialble combination of stem/steerer tube/etc. to get you safely riding that position.
If you live within driving distance of a shop like Yellow Jersey, Madison, WI; they have the people/know how/products to make a workable solution... but I don't know if they handle Trek.
David Ornee, Western Springs, IL
David Ornee, Western Springs, IL

Tom Sherman said:

HERETIC!

TRAITOR! 😉

Nag, nag, nag:
http://www.pacifier.com/~jwills/Gallery/index.html#Bike_Collection
(now out of date- I've acquired two more uprights and disposed of a
recumbent)

Jeff

You don't say whether your existing bike is threaded or threadless, steerer.
If it's a threaded steerer on your bike, you could try either
http://www.rivbike.com/webalog/handlebars_stems_tape/16007.html or
http://www.rivbike.com/webalog/handlebars_stems_tape/16120.html on your
existing bike before purchasing another bike. I have a tandem with one of
the Technomic stems and there's no problem with excessive flex noticeable (I
have about 120mm of stem showing above the headset.

Nick

"Magnusfarce" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I need to learn more about how to raise the handlebars on a road bike, and
what effects that will have on handling and frame strength.

Magnusfarce said:

I need to learn more about how to raise the handlebars on a road

bike, and

Quoted message said:

what effects that will have on handling and frame strength.

Quoted message said:

I mounted a cheap adjustable stem on my old road bike and
determined that with the handlebars several inches above the seat,

The problem is that my old bike, with the adjustable stem and very

high

Quoted message said:

handlebars, is just too flimsy feeling to ride long term. As a

result, I'm

Quoted message said:

looking for a new bike that will handle the higher handlebars.

1) What are my best options for raising the handlebars on the new

bike? I

Quoted message said:

'm not keen on adjustable stems. I have seen fixed extenders for the
steering tubes (made by Delta, I think) that add about three inches
vertically. There are also angled stems that might accomplish the

task at

Quoted message said:

hand. Is it possible that the manufacturer might be able to give me

a fork

Quoted message said:

with an extra long steerer tube? Comments about these various

approaches?

If you want bars that high, just slap an extender on the steer tube.
That's what they're made for.

Quoted message said:

2) How will raising the handlebars affect handling and steering? I

know

Quoted message said:

that my center of gravity will be higher. I'm also aware that this

unusual

Quoted message said:

set up will change my riding techniques completely, but that's just
something I'll have to adapt to. As I said earlier, my old bike is

really

Quoted message said:

twitchy with the bars raised so high. How can I be sure that a new

bike

Quoted message said:

like the 2100C will be better before I commit $1500?

Raising the bars, even several inches, shouldn't have much effect on
bike handling if done properly. Adjustable stems (and many steep
threadless stems) make the bike handling twitchy because they shorten
the stem in the horizontal direction as they raise it vertically.

There are several long quill stems available for threaded forks that
won't disturb handling, either.

I'm 6'10", 235 lb, and have used both threadless extenders and long
quill stems. No big deal. If you want a new bike, then get one, but
your handlebar problem is a $30 fix, not a $1500 one.

in article [email hidden], Magnusfarce at
[email hidden] wrote on 3/27/05 12:12 PM:

Quoted message said:

I need to learn more about how to raise the handlebars on a road bike, and
what effects that will have on handling and frame strength.

A while back, I injured my neck and can no longer spend hours hunched over a
standard set of road bike handlebars with my head tilted up to see the road
in front of me.

I don't have any advice for you about raising handlebars, but I *can*
recommend a better neck treatment. Visit the Milne Ongley Institute in
Ensenada, which is 108 km south of Tijuana. They are the world's experts at
prolotherapy, a.k.a. Reconstructive Ligament Therapy. To make a long story
short, they can really strengthen the ligaments in your neck to restore
proper mobility and stability. The neck treatment takes about 6 weeks and
costs $3000, although fees may have changed.

http://ongleyonline.com

Especially check out the double blind clinical study of Milne Ongley's
treatment for *chronic* low back pain, which is found on this site under
"Research". That article was published in The Lancet, July 18, 1987. I am
not aware of any better clinically tested treatment for chronic lower back
pain.

If you have any questions, you can talk to Dr. Glenn Ongley, Milne Ongley's
son, at 619-934-7905, Sun through Tuesday, mostly evenings.

David Wagner
An Ongley patient and avid cyclist.

On Sun, 27 Mar 2005 10:12:58 -0800, "Magnusfarce"

may have said:

I need to learn more about how to raise the handlebars on a road bike, and
what effects that will have on handling and frame strength.

Properly done, there should be no effect on frame strength or ride
feel. (Improperly done, there still should be no efect on frame
strength, really.)

You've already discovered that there are hybrid bikes available which
combine the frame and drivetrain characteristics of a road bike with
the more upright seating position of a mountain bike or cruiser.
merely raising the exiting drop bars to a position where they're well
above the usual level is generally not as useful as it seems; there
are reasons why the hybrids have mtb-style (or in some cases, even
cruiser-style) bars, and it's likely that you would be better served
to try to swap to that configuration in my opinion. Swapping out the
bars alone, however, is not adequate, as there are issues with the
brake levers to address, and you'll most likely want to move the
shifters to the bars if they aren't there now.

At a minimum, then, I'd say you'd be best served by swapping to a
fairly tall mtb stem and bars, with suitable brake levers (they exist,
but the lbs or seller will need to know what kind of brakes you're
working with in order to select the right ones), a set of suitable
shifters, grips, and cables to hook everything up. If you have a
trusted lbs that has a collection of used parts available, you might
try explaining to them what you want to do, and see if they might make
you a deal on a set of suitable components at an economical price.

By the way, in my experience, raising the existing bars to a high
position would be likely to make the assembly seem rather flexy, and
it also puts the road-style pointy-topped stem that much closer to the
likely path of body parts in the event of a sudden deceleration.
Additionally, there's not much need for the drops when you're not
trying to ride road-style.

All of this is just my opinion. Others will have other suggestions;
it's up to you which advice to accept, and which to ignore; you're the
one who has to be satisfied with the results, after all.

--
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