Homologous blood transfusions vs. EPO

Dammit. That webpage is slow and flaky. Here's a new URL:

http://anonymous.coward.free.fr/rbr/tt.png

vs.

http://anonymous.coward.free.fr/rbr/olytt.png
http://anonymous.coward.free.fr/rbr/vuelta8.png

Robert Chung said:

http://mywebpage.netscape.com/rechung/temp/tt.png

That header was confusing me for a while.

Ewoud Dronkert said:

That header was confusing me for a while.

Ooops. Didn't even notice that. Fixed.
http://anonymous.coward.free.fr/rbr/tt.png

Robert Chung said:

http://mywebpage.netscape.com/rechung/temp/tt.png

vs.

http://anonymous.coward.free.fr/rbr/olytt.png
http://anonymous.coward.free.fr/rbr/vuelta8.png

I remember Millar saying he soft pedalled the second lap.

"Robert Chung" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Ewoud Dronkert said:

That header was confusing me for a while.

Ooops. Didn't even notice that. Fixed.
http://anonymous.coward.free.fr/rbr/tt.png

so what is santi perez on ?

Amit said:

Quoted message said:

http://anonymous.coward.free.fr/rbr/tt.png

so what is santi perez on ?

I confess that the plot above was the first thing I thought about when I
saw this:
http://anonymous.coward.free.fr/rbr/vuelta15.png

"Robert Chung" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Amit said:

Quoted message said:

http://anonymous.coward.free.fr/rbr/tt.png

so what is santi perez on ?

I confess that the plot above was the first thing I thought about when I
saw this:
http://anonymous.coward.free.fr/rbr/vuelta15.png

these plots are interesting, esp. with the time contours

the above shows that peipoli and beloki had about the same time, but
one went out too quickly and the other too slowly.

but it's interesting to think where say piepoli would've ended up had
he paced himself better.

if he had maintained pace he would've ended up near sastre and nozal,
but assuming he wasn't capable of that he would've finished somewhere
between nozal and calvente (who is on the same isoline as piepoli),
that's about a 3.5 minute window. so it's plausible that with better
pacing piepoli (and beloki) could've picked up another 2 minutes.

also take for example laiseka. laiseka was slower than piepoli in the
first segment and slower than beloki in the second, but he stil
finished a minute up on both of them.

-amit

Amit said:

"Robert Chung" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Amit said:

> http://anonymous.coward.free.fr/rbr/tt.png

so what is santi perez on ?

I confess that the plot above was the first thing I thought about when
I saw this:
http://anonymous.coward.free.fr/rbr/vuelta15.png

these plots are interesting, esp. with the time contours

Quoted message said:

it's plausible that with better
pacing piepoli (and beloki) could've picked up another 2 minutes.

It was obvious that Beloki and Piepoli had different approaches, but it
wasn't until I put in the contours that I realized that they ended up with
around the same times. I think that going out too fast and fading (like
Piepoli) costs you more than going out too slowly because the consequences
of a bad strategy aren't symmetric. With proper pacing Piepoli might have
gained more than Beloki would have.

Quoted message said:

also take for example laiseka. laiseka was slower than piepoli in the
first segment and slower than beloki in the second, but he stil
finished a minute up on both of them.

Pretty interesting, ain't it?

These interpretations suggest the riders were really going for it all the way,
and/or that the course had a steady profile.

Piepoli had relatively strong intermediate times and probably overpushed. But
I saw him finish and he didn't look like suffering but just pedaling it out.
Since he defends no GC there was no point carrying on after realizing there
was no good placing in it anymore.

It's also hard to take a re-builing up rider like Beloki in this assessment.
It's no surprise he wasn't at ease on the steeper sections and fared better
towards the end.

Van Hoorebeeck Bart said:

These interpretations suggest the riders were really going for it all
the way, and/or that the course had a steady profile.

I disagree. I'm neither saying that the riders were going all out nor do I
claim that the course was steady. The course clearly didn't have a steady
profile, which is why you can't make much of the exact placement of the
points; however, every rider faced the same profile and it appears that
almost all riders were choosing from among a narrow range of pacing
strategies, even though they may or may not have been going all out.

Quoted message said:

Piepoli had relatively strong intermediate times and probably
overpushed. But I saw him finish and he didn't look like suffering but
just pedaling it out. Since he defends no GC there was no point
carrying on after realizing there was no good placing in it anymore.

It's also hard to take a re-builing up rider like Beloki in this
assessment. It's no surprise he wasn't at ease on the steeper sections
and fared better towards the end.

Beloki dropped out the next day, but I took his pattern as suggesting that
he had doubts about his condition.
Piepoli's time to the top of the Monachil was the 8th fastest, while his
time from that point on to the top of the stage put him 25th from the
slowest. I took his pattern as suggesting that he was optimistic at the
start, but then reality set in.

"Robert Chung" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Van Hoorebeeck Bart said:

These interpretations suggest the riders were really going for it all
the way, and/or that the course had a steady profile.

I disagree. I'm neither saying that the riders were going all out nor do I
claim that the course was steady. The course clearly didn't have a steady
profile, which is why you can't make much of the exact placement of the
points; however, every rider faced the same profile and it appears that
almost all riders were choosing from among a narrow range of pacing
strategies, even though they may or may not have been going all out.

i took those as examples since they stand out so much, but the data
from the worlds and olympics is perhaps more interesting, particularly
since they do multiple laps of the same course

but the data does show that perez surged and valverde, vino and heras
didn't fade, if by fading you mean falling below the pacing defined by
the major trend in the data.

one thing i realized is that this analysis could reveal if a rider was
cheating. i recall a story about a TT where a woman was behind by some
time, say a minute or so but without any officials around she was
pushed up the climb by her coach at 70 kph and she finsished a minute
or more up.

this analysis could reveal which riders surged or faded faded and
which went so fast on a section they must've been cheating.

"Robert Chung" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

http://mywebpage.netscape.com/rechung/temp/tt.png

vs.

http://anonymous.coward.free.fr/rbr/olytt.png
http://anonymous.coward.free.fr/rbr/vuelta8.png

http://www.tdfblog.com/2003/07/stage_19_david_.html
Britain's David Millar won the stage in 54:05, for the 2nd-fastest
time trial in Tour history. Tyler Freaking Hamilton was 2nd, at 54:14.
Combined with the finishes of Mayo and Zubeldia, Hamilton's time trial
moves him up into 4th on the overall classification.

1) David Millar (Cofidis) 54:05.14
2) Tyler Hamilton (Team CSC) 54:14.27
3) Armstrong (US Postal) 54:19.66
4) Ullrich (Team Bianchi) 54:30.45
5) Laszlo Bodrogi (QuickStep) 54:31.73

Allegedly.