Homemade shoes

On 2007-12-16, [email hidden] <[email hidden]> wrote:
[...]

Quoted message said:

The big issue now is how to attach the webbing to the sole. I thought
maybe slots cut into the plexi with the webbing passed through, and
then the webbing doubled over and sewn so it is too wide to pass back
through the slot. Or maybe pop-rivets? Will the plexi crack from pop-
rivets? Glue seems like a potential big mess.

You could try a double sole. So the webbing just wraps around the upper
layer, then you put glue everywhere and slap the lower layer on,
clamping the webbing and glue securely in a sandwich. Glue holds the
whole lot together, but it's not too messy as it's all contained inside
the sandwich. The other advantage is it's easy to clamp the two
sole-plates together in a vice or something while the glue sets thus
getting a really good bond.

To be really clever the sole-plates should also slot together in a kind
of barbed interference fit so they actually grip the webbing. But the
glue will probably be good enough.

I would google "shoemaking" and "cordwaining" to see some information
about making patterns and show construction techniques.

Tim McNamara said:

I would google "shoemaking" and "cordwaining" to see some information
about making patterns and show construction techniques.

I have done so, and some interesting things have come up. The main
difference is cycling shoes need not flex, and need to withstand
forces pulling upward on the upper.

But some of the basic shoes turned up in searches would make fine
patterns for the non-structural parts of the uppers.

So far I have been experimenting with cloth pieces draped over my foot
in various ways. This is helping my flexibility too!

Joseph

Quoted message said:

Hi All,

Because it's winter, and just for the fun of it, I've decided to make my
own road shoes. Here is my plan, and I'd be interested to hear any
suggestions on other easier and/or better ways to do things.

First I will make a foot print of my bare foot with some paint. This
will show what shape the sole should be, as this is what needs to bear
my weight. I'll add some fudge room to keep from sliding off the edges,
particularly in the front. I will them make another foot print with
paint on top of the full foot print, but this time with my heel raised.
So only my toes and the ball of my foot will make contact. This will
show where the sole of the shoe should bend. How much bend remains to be
seen.

The soles will be made from 1/4" arcylic sheet which is cheap and can be
formed in a regular oven. I will drill holes for T-nuts to hold the
cleats, and with some commercially available insoles (perhaps thermo -
formable). Some rubber heel screwed on for walking. I'll be using SPD-
SL cleats, so the sole will have no other contact with the ground. The
edges will be beveled in hopes of not having this whole thing look too
retarded.

The uppers will be made from polypropolene webbing. I will experiment
with different widths, and with velcro and plastic buckles. Wide enough
that while the shoe is actually a sandal, it will be mostly covered by
webbing. I was figuring a zig-zag pattern where the webbing is fixed to
the sole near the ball of the foot on the inside, it goes across the top
of the foot to the outside edge of the sole, through a loop, and across
the instep to a loop by the arch of the foot, then across the top to a
buckle or velcro. A heel counter made from stiff nylon webbing, with a
narrower adjusting strap from polypropolene with a buckle to adjust heel
lock-in. Perhaps a toe-box also from stiff nylon webbing (woven
perhaps?).

The big issue now is how to attach the webbing to the sole. I thought
maybe slots cut into the plexi with the webbing passed through, and then
the webbing doubled over and sewn so it is too wide to pass back through
the slot. Or maybe pop-rivets? Will the plexi crack from pop- rivets?
Glue seems like a potential big mess.

I don't think the acrylic will be strong enough. I've had several shoes
crack, even with midsoles made of stronger/tougher reinforced nylon.

I'd use carbon fiber prepreg, or even epoxy-fiberglass. Both of these can
be formed easily.

I've done a few shoe experiments myself. I've added titanium insoles to
replace cracked plastic ones. If I were doing this again I'd probably use
carbon. I've also put new soles on with rock climbing shoe rubber.

Anyway, have fun with your project, and good luck!

Matt O.

Matt O'Toole said:

Quoted message said:

Hi All,

Quoted message said:

Because it's winter, and just for the fun of it, I've decided to make my
own road shoes. Here is my plan, and I'd be interested to hear any
suggestions on other easier and/or better ways to do things.

Quoted message said:

First I will make a foot print of my bare foot with some paint. This
will show what shape the sole should be, as this is what needs to bear
my weight. I'll add some fudge room to keep from sliding off the edges,
particularly in the front. I will them make another foot print with
paint on top of the full foot print, but this time with my heel raised.
So only my toes and the ball of my foot will make contact. This will
show where the sole of the shoe should bend. How much bend remains to be
seen.

Quoted message said:

The soles will be made from 1/4" arcylic sheet which is cheap and can be
formed in a regular oven. I will drill holes for T-nuts to hold the
cleats, and with some commercially available insoles (perhaps thermo -
formable). Some rubber heel screwed on for walking. I'll be using SPD-
SL cleats, so the sole will have no other contact with the ground. The
edges will be beveled in hopes of not having this whole thing look too
retarded.

Quoted message said:

The uppers will be made from polypropolene webbing. I will experiment
with different widths, and with velcro and plastic buckles. Wide enough
that while the shoe is actually a sandal, it will be mostly covered by
webbing. I was figuring a zig-zag pattern where the webbing is fixed to
the sole near the ball of the foot on the inside, it goes across the top
of the foot to the outside edge of the sole, through a loop, and across
the instep to a loop by the arch of the foot, then across the top to a
buckle or velcro. A heel counter made from stiff nylon webbing, with a
narrower adjusting strap from polypropolene with a buckle to adjust heel
lock-in. Perhaps a toe-box also from stiff nylon webbing (woven
perhaps?).

Quoted message said:

The big issue now is how to attach the webbing to the sole. I thought
maybe slots cut into the plexi with the webbing passed through, and then
the webbing doubled over and sewn so it is too wide to pass back through
the slot. Or maybe pop-rivets? Will the plexi crack from pop- rivets?
Glue seems like a potential big mess.

I don't think the acrylic will be strong enough. I've had several shoes
crack, even with midsoles made of stronger/tougher reinforced nylon.

I'd use carbon fiber prepreg, or even epoxy-fiberglass. Both of these can
be formed easily.

I've done a few shoe experiments myself. I've added titanium insoles to
replace cracked plastic ones. If I were doing this again I'd probably use
carbon. I've also put new soles on with rock climbing shoe rubber.

Anyway, have fun with your project, and good luck!

Matt O.

My first thoughts were for carbon lay-up formed to my foot, but for a
prototype I thought acrylic would be easier, and it's not a total
anatomically matched fit I'm after. But maybe carbon laid out flat in
the same bend as the acrylic prototype.

How strong is plexiglass anyway?

Joseph

On Sun, 16 Dec 2007 03:24:37 -0800 (PST),
"[email hidden]" <[email hidden]> may have

Quoted message said:

Hi All,

Because it's winter, and just for the fun of it, I've decided to make
my own road shoes. Here is my plan, and I'd be interested to hear any
suggestions on other easier and/or better ways to do things.

First I will make a foot print of my bare foot with some paint. This
will show what shape the sole should be, as this is what needs to bear
my weight. I'll add some fudge room to keep from sliding off the
edges, particularly in the front. I will them make another foot print
with paint on top of the full foot print, but this time with my heel
raised. So only my toes and the ball of my foot will make contact.
This will show where the sole of the shoe should bend. How much bend
remains to be seen.

In making custom moccasins, the usual technique for describing the
sole shape is to have the person stand on a piece of paper with weight
equally distributed between both feet, while an assistant traces
around the outline of the foot with a pen. To get the flex point, the
standing person lifts up slightly and the assistant marks the line
across behind the aft point of continued contact. (The flex point is
seldom needed for moccasins, though.)

Quoted message said:

The soles will be made from 1/4" arcylic sheet which is cheap and can
be formed in a regular oven.

It also breaks with distressing ease. Although it has fair strength
under compression, it's not worth a damn under tension and bending,
and the flexure limit is fairly small, particularly if there's a flaw
present which can turn into a concentrator.

Many other materials would work better.

Quoted message said:

I will drill holes for T-nuts to hold the
cleats, and with some commercially available insoles (perhaps thermo -
formable). Some rubber heel screwed on for walking. I'll be using SPD-
SL cleats, so the sole will have no other contact with the ground. The
edges will be beveled in hopes of not having this whole thing look too
retarded.

Given the look of many road shoes, this is probably the least of your
worries.

Quoted message said:

The uppers will be made from polypropolene webbing. I will experiment
with different widths, and with velcro and plastic buckles. Wide
enough that while the shoe is actually a sandal, it will be mostly
covered by webbing. I was figuring a zig-zag pattern where the webbing
is fixed to the sole near the ball of the foot on the inside, it goes
across the top of the foot to the outside edge of the sole, through a
loop, and across the instep to a loop by the arch of the foot, then
across the top to a buckle or velcro. A heel counter made from stiff
nylon webbing, with a narrower adjusting strap from polypropolene with
a buckle to adjust heel lock-in. Perhaps a toe-box also from stiff
nylon webbing (woven perhaps?).

The big issue now is how to attach the webbing to the sole. I thought
maybe slots cut into the plexi with the webbing passed through, and
then the webbing doubled over and sewn so it is too wide to pass back
through the slot. Or maybe pop-rivets? Will the plexi crack from pop-
rivets? Glue seems like a potential big mess.

Personally, I think this is a project fraught with potential for
education of the person undertaking it. Let us know how it turns out.

--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.
Typoes are not a bug, they're a feature.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

Werehatrack said:

Quoted message said:

The soles will be made from 1/4" arcylic sheet which is cheap and can
be formed in a regular oven.

It also breaks with distressing ease. Although it has fair strength
under compression, it's not worth a damn under tension and bending,
and the flexure limit is fairly small, particularly if there's a flaw
present which can turn into a concentrator.

With the sole filled with holes for cleats, etc, there will be plenty
of opportunity for flaws. And right where the flex is probably most
pronounced.

Quoted message said:

Many other materials would work better.

Like what? Polycarbonate/Lexan? It's about 10x more expensive than
acrylic, but still cheap enough.

Joseph

email hidden said:

Hi All,

Because it's winter, and just for the fun of it, I've decided to make
my own road shoes.

I went into shoe making out of despair since no commercial cycling
shoe I had found proved to be 'friendly'. I made two pairs so far,
worn them out and I am just about to set out for my fourth one.
All leather, almost no strong glue; so, very different from what your
technique.

I warn you. It's very easy to misjudge the ultimate stiffness before
glueing or sewing together the layers.
Also, there are special steel inserts to make the thing stiffer
(called fiosso, in Italian).

Good luck and enjoy the excercise.

My home make cycling shoes proved to be far better than any other I
had tried.

Sergio
Pisa

sergio said:

email hidden said:

Hi All,

Because it's winter, and just for the fun of it, I've decided to make
my own road shoes.

I went into shoe making out of despair since no commercial cycling
shoe I had found proved to be 'friendly'. I made two pairs so far,
worn them out and I am just about to set out for my fourth one.
All leather, almost no strong glue; so, very different from what your
technique.

I warn you. It's very easy to misjudge the ultimate stiffness before
glueing or sewing together the layers.
Also, there are special steel inserts to make the thing stiffer
(called fiosso, in Italian).

Good luck and enjoy the excercise.

My home make cycling shoes proved to be far better than any other I
had tried.

Sergio
Pisa

Dear Sergio,

Pictures of the cobbling-together of your fourth set of bike shoes
would be just as interesting as the pictures of your wooden rims.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

sergio said:

On 16 Dic, 12:24, "[email hidden]"

Quoted message said:

Hi All,

Quoted message said:

Because it's winter, and just for the fun of it, I've decided to make
my own road shoes.

I went into shoe making out of despair since no commercial cycling
shoe I had found proved to be 'friendly'. I made two pairs so far,
worn them out and I am just about to set out for my fourth one.
All leather, almost no strong glue; so, very different from what your
technique.

I warn you. It's very easy to misjudge the ultimate stiffness before
glueing or sewing together the layers.
Also, there are special steel inserts to make the thing stiffer
(called fiosso, in Italian).

Good luck and enjoy the excercise.

My home make cycling shoes proved to be far better than any other I
had tried.

Sergio
Pisa

Do you have pictures? I'd love to see them.

My favorite cycling shoes I ever had were some wooden soled Duegis. I
thought about a traditional shoe, but figured the skills necessary
were beyond my patience. The most comfortable shoes I have of all
(unfortunately not cycling shoes) are dress shoes I had made in Paris
20 years ago in an entirely traditional manner. The stiffener you
describe is I believe called a shank in English.

I'm sure shoemakers abound in Pisa so access to quality materials was
perhaps not such a problem. I wouldn't even know where to start.

Joseph

Joseph says - Because it's winter, and just for the fun of it, I've
decided to make my own road shoes.

...Now that's the sort of stuff I like! Good Luck. I think it's a very
doable undertaking if you're so inclined.

Best Regards - Mike Baldwin

O.k.
I'll take shots and pass them over in due, mind you short, time .
This part of the country is famous, in fact World famous, for leather
factories.
Check it out under Santa Croce and Castelfranco di Sotto.

In nearby Lucca there was a shoemaker specialised in cycling shoes,
serving the likes of Bartali, Nencini, De Vlaeminck ... .
Colombini was his name.

Sergio
Pisa

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The soles will be made from 1/4" arcylic sheet which is cheap and can
be formed in a regular oven.

Quoted message said:

Werehatrack said:

It also breaks with distressing ease. Although it has fair strength
under compression, it's not worth a damn under tension and bending,
and the flexure limit is fairly small, particularly if there's a flaw
present which can turn into a concentrator.

Quoted message said:

With the sole filled with holes for cleats, etc, there will be plenty
of opportunity for flaws. And right where the flex is probably most
pronounced.

Quoted message said:

Werehatrack said:

Many other materials would work better.

Quoted message said:

Like what? Polycarbonate/Lexan? It's about 10x more expensive than
acrylic, but still cheap enough.

A medical clinic uses a thermosetting material for limb supports which
seems pretty similar to a nylon. Easy to cut/shape, not brittle, curves
with a hair dryer and retains its shape. I have a few pieces given to us
by a med tech customer, don't know it's name.

Acrylic and polycarbonate will be difficult and not well suited I think.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Sun, 16 Dec 2007 13:39:47 -0800 (PST),
"[email hidden]" <[email hidden]> may have

Quoted message said:

Werehatrack said:

Quoted message said:

The soles will be made from 1/4" arcylic sheet which is cheap and can
be formed in a regular oven.

Quoted message said:

Many other materials would work better.

Like what? Polycarbonate/Lexan? It's about 10x more expensive than
acrylic, but still cheap enough.

If you can get sheet HDPE, that's a better place to start,
particularly if you can get one of the mineral-filled types. Lexan
will cold-flow under constant stress; if it doesn't actually break, it
will simply pull apart. The stiffer polycarbonates are fairly
durable, but as they get stiffer, they get more brittle.

I don't do a lot with sheet plastic materials; mostly, that's because
they aren't all that easy to get in small quantities. Truckloads,
yes; I know where to get *huge* amounts of most anything in that
line...but a piece or two, not so much. This is the downside of being
in an area where the raw feed stock is produced; the distribution
channels are used to handling firehose quantities, not a little
dribble or drop.

--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.
Typoes are not a bug, they're a feature.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

A Muzi said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] wrote:
> The soles will be made from 1/4" arcylic sheet which is cheap and can
> be formed in a regular oven.

Werehatrack said:

It also breaks with distressing ease. Although it has fair strength
under compression, it's not worth a damn under tension and bending,
and the flexure limit is fairly small, particularly if there's a flaw
present which can turn into a concentrator.

Quoted message said:

With the sole filled with holes for cleats, etc, there will be plenty
of opportunity for flaws. And right where the flex is probably most
pronounced.

Werehatrack said:

Many other materials would work better.

Quoted message said:

Like what? Polycarbonate/Lexan? It's about 10x more expensive than
acrylic, but still cheap enough.

A medical clinic uses a thermosetting material for limb supports which
seems pretty similar to a nylon. Easy to cut/shape, not brittle, curves
with a hair dryer and retains its shape. I have a few pieces given to us
by a med tech customer, don't know it's name.

Acrylic and polycarbonate will be difficult and not well suited I think.
--
Andrew Muziwww.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

I have had the misfortune of having to use that stuff when I broke my
wrist one time. After the cast was removed, I had a splint made of
that stuff and velcro straps I was supposed to use for a while.

Anyone know what it is called? That stuff would be perfect.

Joseph

Werehatrack said:

On Sun, 16 Dec 2007 03:24:37 -0800 (PST),
"[email hidden]" <[email hidden]> may have

Quoted message said:

The soles will be made from 1/4" arcylic sheet which is cheap and can
be formed in a regular oven.

It also breaks with distressing ease. Although it has fair strength
under compression, it's not worth a damn under tension and bending,
and the flexure limit is fairly small, particularly if there's a flaw
present which can turn into a concentrator.

Many other materials would work better.

This was my experience when I made adapter plates to bolt to the bottom
of sneakers, they just cracked. I switched to metal and that worked OK.

Perhaps an easier approach for a first-timer would be to modify non
cycling shoes/sandals. You can remove (perhaps destructively) the old
sole, bolt/glue a cleat plate, then glue the original (or replacement)
sole over that after cutting a cleat hole. You might even have the first
and last steps done by a cobbler.

Peter Cole said:

Werehatrack said:

On Sun, 16 Dec 2007 03:24:37 -0800 (PST),
"[email hidden]" <[email hidden]> may have
said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The soles will be made from 1/4" arcylic sheet which is cheap and can
be formed in a regular oven.

Quoted message said:

It also breaks with distressing ease. Although it has fair strength
under compression, it's not worth a damn under tension and bending,
and the flexure limit is fairly small, particularly if there's a flaw
present which can turn into a concentrator.

Quoted message said:

Many other materials would work better.

This was my experience when I made adapter plates to bolt to the bottom
of sneakers, they just cracked. I switched to metal and that worked OK.

Perhaps an easier approach for a first-timer would be to modify non
cycling shoes/sandals. You can remove (perhaps destructively) the old
sole, bolt/glue a cleat plate, then glue the original (or replacement)
sole over that after cutting a cleat hole. You might even have the first
and last steps done by a cobbler.

I'm looking for super stiff sole, and a reasonable weight, so
modifying existing shoes won't really fit the bill.

There is actually a cobbler in town, so I might pay him a visit.

Joseph

sergio said:

email hidden said:

Hi All,

Because it's winter, and just for the fun of it, I've decided to make
my own road shoes.

I went into shoe making out of despair since no commercial cycling
shoe I had found proved to be 'friendly'. I made two pairs so far,
worn them out and I am just about to set out for my fourth one.
All leather, almost no strong glue; so, very different from what your
technique.

I warn you. It's very easy to misjudge the ultimate stiffness before
glueing or sewing together the layers.
Also, there are special steel inserts to make the thing stiffer
(called fiosso, in Italian).

Good luck and enjoy the excercise.

My home make cycling shoes proved to be far better than any other I
had tried.

Sergio
Pisa

Dear Sergio,

Here are your pictures of your current third set of shoes:

http://i7.tinypic.com/72k2iyd.jpg

http://i10.tinypic.com/7xkd1s3.jpg

http://i1.tinypic.com/7318yzp.jpg

"They have provided heavy service the last six years or so. I
originally intended they would be winter shoes (hence the lining), but
I later decided they are too comfortable to leave them unused in the
summer."

I hope to see some pictures of the fourth set as you make them.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted post said:

Because it's winter, and just for the fun of it, I've decided to make
my own road shoes.

Quoted message said:

sergio said:

I went into shoe making out of despair since no commercial cycling
shoe I had found proved to be 'friendly'. I made two pairs so far,
worn them out and I am just about to set out for my fourth one.
All leather, almost no strong glue; so, very different from what your
technique.

I warn you. It's very easy to misjudge the ultimate stiffness before
glueing or sewing together the layers.
Also, there are special steel inserts to make the thing stiffer
(called fiosso, in Italian).
Good luck and enjoy the excercise.
My home make cycling shoes proved to be far better than any other I
had tried.

Quoted message said:

Here are your pictures of your current third set of shoes:

http://i7.tinypic.com/72k2iyd.jpg

http://i10.tinypic.com/7xkd1s3.jpg

http://i1.tinypic.com/7318yzp.jpg

"They have provided heavy service the last six years or so. I
originally intended they would be winter shoes (hence the lining), but
I later decided they are too comfortable to leave them unused in the
summer."
I hope to see some pictures of the fourth set as you make them.

The Ancients also used a leather slotted cleat of similar shape to good
effect. With a toestrap, the cleat doesn't have to be excessively tight
or rigid in the pedal to work well.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971