Hit by car, from behind

BigBen said:

Not exactly technical so far - but I'll get to make "semi-technical"

Today, a moron saw me cycling on the road, next to the pavement,
climbing, was overtaking me, and sudenly got distracted, started
coming right - my way - the outside rear view mirror or the Toyota
Hiace van - similar to Ford Transit - hit my head, and the the middle
of the van come in contact with the left side of my handlebar, which
was enough to make roll on the road, left side hip dow, then back, and
finally head against tubes on the pavement to prevent cars parking on
pavements.

This was at around 3 pm, perfect sunshine, the moron said he did see
me, but the got distracted, here's my "semi-technical" question:

what on earth can you do, in broad daylight, to make cagers more
attenttive to us???

(I've always thought it was a childish thing, but I'm definitelly
considering using a modified "lollipop" on my bike, with the round
reflective part balancing and rotating to the wind.)

Not (bi)cycle related, but just heard today that a friend of mine had
a bad motorcycle accident on Sunday, and is laying, waiting to have
some plates and screws bolted to one of his legs.... Anybody has some
spare Prozac around??

PS - Well, at least I lived to tell the story, and with no plates and
screws too, but this just made my wife more suspicious of anything
with less than 4 wheels, or cyclepaths :-( Bloody morons!

jbr

Glad to hear you are ok. I was once taken out by a guy in a delivery
van who got his mirror caught on my Silca pump sticking out of my
messenger bag. Yes one of those flimsy Silcas!

I sincerley think people like that should be adminstered a severe
beating to bang it home that they have to be careful while taking
chances with other people's lives. I hope he got a serious fine at
least.

Joseph

BigBen said:

what on earth can you do, in broad daylight, to make cagers more
attenttive to us???

Ride in a paceline.

Seriously though, I am glad you are OK. Unfortunately, we are at the
mercy of motorists. One technique that seems to help me is to turn my
head and make eye contact with the driver. Seems like a nuisance, but I
seem to get more respect from drivers when the see my face and realize
that there is a human pedaling that thing. Of course, if the driver is
not paying attention, this won't do much good, but at least then you
might see them coming at you, giving you some shot at evasive
maneuvers.

This really wouldn't apply to roads where there is a constant stream of
traffic but rather a road less traveled, which is where I try to ride
the most.

Chris

Make sure you go to a doctor and get checked out. Just because you
feel fine now, doesn't mean you will later. When I say get it checked
out, I mean GET CHECKED OUT! X-Rays, Orthopedist, etc. I don't know
how old you are. But, as you age this thing could manifest itself in
years of pain that could have been avoided by early treatment! And
make that driver pay for it too! After all, you shouldn't have to pay
for his/her inattentiveness.

As for clueless drivers. Man, when I go for rides, I never take it for
granted that I'm coming home. These idiots out here are on the phone,
eating, etc whilst manuvering a multiton vehicle. All you can do is
wear the brightest, most outlandish colors out there and pray. Riding
in the wee hours of the morning helps too. And, don't even think of
riding during rush hour.

Just my 2 cents.

BigBen said:

Not exactly technical so far - but I'll get to make "semi-technical"

Today, a moron saw me cycling on the road, next to the pavement,
climbing, was overtaking me, and sudenly got distracted, started
coming right - my way - the outside rear view mirror or the Toyota
Hiace van - similar to Ford Transit - hit my head, and the the middle
of the van come in contact with the left side of my handlebar, which
was enough to make roll on the road, left side hip dow, then back, and
finally head against tubes on the pavement to prevent cars parking on
pavements.

This was at around 3 pm, perfect sunshine, the moron said he did see
me, but the got distracted, here's my "semi-technical" question:

what on earth can you do, in broad daylight, to make cagers more
attenttive to us???

(I've always thought it was a childish thing, but I'm definitelly
considering using a modified "lollipop" on my bike, with the round
reflective part balancing and rotating to the wind.)

Not (bi)cycle related, but just heard today that a friend of mine had
a bad motorcycle accident on Sunday, and is laying, waiting to have
some plates and screws bolted to one of his legs.... Anybody has some
spare Prozac around??

PS - Well, at least I lived to tell the story, and with no plates and
screws too, but this just made my wife more suspicious of anything
with less than 4 wheels, or cyclepaths :-( Bloody morons!

jbr

BigBen said:

Not exactly technical so far - but I'll get to make "semi-technical"

Today, a moron saw me cycling on the road, next to the pavement,
climbing, was overtaking me, and sudenly got distracted, started
coming right - my way - the outside rear view mirror or the Toyota
Hiace van - similar to Ford Transit - hit my head, and the the middle
of the van come in contact with the left side of my handlebar, which
was enough to make roll on the road, left side hip dow, then back, and
finally head against tubes on the pavement to prevent cars parking on
pavements.

This was at around 3 pm, perfect sunshine, the moron said he did see
me, but the got distracted, here's my "semi-technical" question:

what on earth can you do, in broad daylight, to make cagers more
attenttive to us???

(I've always thought it was a childish thing, but I'm definitelly
considering using a modified "lollipop" on my bike, with the round
reflective part balancing and rotating to the wind.)

Not (bi)cycle related, but just heard today that a friend of mine had
a bad motorcycle accident on Sunday, and is laying, waiting to have
some plates and screws bolted to one of his legs.... Anybody has some
spare Prozac around??

PS - Well, at least I lived to tell the story, and with no plates and
screws too, but this just made my wife more suspicious of anything
with less than 4 wheels, or cyclepaths :-( Bloody morons!

jbr

The "mistake" most cyclists make -( and I don't mean to say it is your
fault), is they ride too far over to the right hand of the road,
meaning a driver will just go straight past you, at speed. What you
need to practice is moving out a little further to the left from the
curb, so you force a vehicle coming from behind to go around you, it
also gives you an extra 2-3 feet of room over to your right if some is
passing too close for comfort.

Quoted message said:

The "mistake" most cyclists make -( and I don't mean to say it is your
fault), is they ride too far over to the right hand of the road,
meaning a driver will just go straight past you, at speed. What you
need to practice is moving out a little further to the left from the
curb, so you force a vehicle coming from behind to go around you, it
also gives you an extra 2-3 feet of room over to your right if some is
passing too close for comfort.

Hmmm... 60 mph dense traffic... if I'm obstructing the flow, how long
before a driver just gets mad and takes me out?

Quoted message said:

Hmmm... 60 mph dense traffic... if I'm obstructing the flow, how long
before a driver just gets mad and takes me out?

Oh, get real! Some normal person is just going to decide to kill someone
just because the bicyclist is slowing the traffic? And, riding slightly
inside the white line is not "obstructing the flow"--if anything, it is
causing car after car to slow down and the people behind will notice the
others slowing down and become more attentive to traffic conditions. If we
all lived with "how long before a driver just gets mad and takes me out",
we'd never ride bikes!

Pat in TX

Quoted message said:

On 1 Aug 2006 12:44:10 -0700, "Chris Nelson" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

mercy of motorists. One technique that seems to help me is to turn my
head and make eye contact with the driver. Seems like a nuisance, but I
seem to get more respect from drivers when the see my face and realize
that there is a human pedaling that thing. Of course, if the driver is

Do you know the height of Toyota Hiace or Ford Transit? I'd get a back
neck just to look at the guy. Besides, this did hapened in a busy
road, where I was using my granny chainring - althought not my
lightest cog - I had 2 more left...

jbr

On Tue, 1 Aug 2006 15:25:37 -0500, "Pat in TX" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

[Ron Ruff wrote:]

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Hmmm... 60 mph dense traffic... if I'm obstructing the flow, how long
before a driver just gets mad and takes me out?

Oh, get real! Some normal person is just going to decide to kill someone
just because the bicyclist is slowing the traffic? And, riding slightly
inside the white line is not "obstructing the flow"--if anything, it is
causing car after car to slow down and the people behind will notice the
others slowing down and become more attentive to traffic conditions. If we
all lived with "how long before a driver just gets mad and takes me out",
we'd never ride bikes!

Pat in TX

Dear Ron and Pat,

If the bicyclist is doing 20 mph in dense 60 mph traffic and hoping
that drivers will swerve around him, he's hoping that someone closing
on him at 40 mph in heavy traffic will notice him and swerve in time.

At 60 mph, the car approaches a 20 mph bicyclist at about 60 feet per
second.

If the driver is keeping 60 feet behind the next car (fat chance in
dense 60 mph traffic), he has roughly 1 second to see and swerve
around a bicycle that suddenly appears as the driver ahead of him
swerves.

I don't think that the driver needs to get mad to hit the bicyclist.
In those conditions, the driver will hit the bicyclist if he sneezes.

And plenty of dense traffic goes faster than 60 mph. A bicyclist doing
20 mph and expecting dense traffic to swerve is going to suffer the
same fate as a deer running down the road during rush hour.

Dense high-speed traffic is a fact of life on some roads, which is why
there are signs prohibiting bicycles on many stretches of the
interstate highway and requiring minimum speeds.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

BigBen said:

On 1 Aug 2006 12:44:10 -0700, "Chris Nelson" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

mercy of motorists. One technique that seems to help me is to turn my
head and make eye contact with the driver. Seems like a nuisance, but I
seem to get more respect from drivers when the see my face and realize
that there is a human pedaling that thing. Of course, if the driver is

Do you know the height of Toyota Hiace or Ford Transit? I'd get a back
neck just to look at the guy. Besides, this did hapened in a busy
road, where I was using my granny chainring - althought not my
lightest cog - I had 2 more left...

jbr

No, I am in the USA, so those vehicles will have different names, or
don't exist here. I have no suggestions for busy roads except to avoid
them.

Chris

Quoted message said:

The "mistake" most cyclists make -( and I don't mean to say it is your
fault), is they ride too far over to the right hand of the road,
meaning a driver will just go straight past you, at speed. What you
need to practice is moving out a little further to the left from the
curb, so you force a vehicle coming from behind to go around you, it
also gives you an extra 2-3 feet of room over to your right if some is
passing too close for comfort.

I see your point, but unless i'm group riding, I don't feel
confortable to do so.

The lollipop thing is my closest approach to that.

jbr

On Tue, 1 Aug 2006 15:25:37 -0500, "Pat in TX" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Oh, get real! Some normal person is just going to decide to kill someone
just because the bicyclist is slowing the traffic? And, riding slightly
inside the white line is not "obstructing the flow"--if anything, it is

I'm not familiar with road conditions inTX, but in Portugal, where I
live, and roads have no shoulders, a rider might choose to kill a
cyclist, but he sure will try making deaf from blowing his car horn at
him.

"Country roads", with shoulders, are a blessing!

jbr, near Cascais

Chris Nelson said:

BigBen said:

On 1 Aug 2006 12:44:10 -0700, "Chris Nelson" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

mercy of motorists. One technique that seems to help me is to turn my
head and make eye contact with the driver. Seems like a nuisance, but I
seem to get more respect from drivers when the see my face and realize
that there is a human pedaling that thing. Of course, if the driver is

Do you know the height of Toyota Hiace or Ford Transit? I'd get a back
neck just to look at the guy. Besides, this did hapened in a busy
road, where I was using my granny chainring - althought not my
lightest cog - I had 2 more left...

jbr

No, I am in the USA, so those vehicles will have different names, or
don't exist here. I have no suggestions for busy roads except to avoid
them.

Chris

Hiace is basically a mini-van in US terms.

Joseph

Quoted message said:

Chris Nelson said:

BigBen said:

On 1 Aug 2006 12:44:10 -0700, "Chris Nelson" <[email hidden]>
wrote:

>mercy of motorists. One technique that seems to help me is to turn my
>head and make eye contact with the driver. Seems like a nuisance, but I
>seem to get more respect from drivers when the see my face and realize
>that there is a human pedaling that thing. Of course, if the driver is

Do you know the height of Toyota Hiace or Ford Transit? I'd get a back
neck just to look at the guy. Besides, this did hapened in a busy
road, where I was using my granny chainring - althought not my
lightest cog - I had 2 more left...

jbr

No, I am in the USA, so those vehicles will have different names, or
don't exist here. I have no suggestions for busy roads except to avoid
them.

Chris

Hiace is basically a mini-van in US terms.

Joseph

Ah yes, Toyoya Sienna. Driven mostly by soccer moms, talking on cell
phones, rushing their kids to practice. And you better not make them
late by clogging the road with your bike.

Chris

"BigBen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

what on earth can you do, in broad daylight, to make cagers more
attenttive to us???

Wear, as much as possible, clothing that makes you look like a constable on
a bicycle.

This notion does have merit. I've noticed that the further to the
right I get the closer drivers come. When I ride a bit more to the
left, they either wait or pass wide. Also, riding too far to the right
on some roads can be problematic due to debris, storm grates, etc.
Maybe this attitude is due in part to where I live (MD-DC Suburbs),
but, I'd never ride anywhere where the speed limit is more than 40 or
45. Roads like that are usually too heavily traveled and cyclists
aren't expected. That's the biggest problem.

Pat in TX said:

Quoted message said:

Hmmm... 60 mph dense traffic... if I'm obstructing the flow, how long
before a driver just gets mad and takes me out?

Oh, get real! Some normal person is just going to decide to kill someone
just because the bicyclist is slowing the traffic? And, riding slightly
inside the white line is not "obstructing the flow"--if anything, it is
causing car after car to slow down and the people behind will notice the
others slowing down and become more attentive to traffic conditions. If we
all lived with "how long before a driver just gets mad and takes me out",
we'd never ride bikes!

Pat in TX

Quoted message said:

jtaylor said:

"BigBen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

what on earth can you do, in broad daylight, to make cagers more
attenttive to us???

Wear, as much as possible, clothing that makes you look like a constable on
a bicycle.

Dear J,

Which constable? Top or bottom?

http://www.stamfordhistory.org/ph_1100.htm

The enormous chainring and heavy-duty seat suspension in the top
picture suggests high-speed pursuits. The lack of a front brake is
troubling.

Judging by this trio, mammoth chainrings were standard police issue,
but fenders, rear reflectors, coat button rows, forearm chevrons, hat
color, and even collar styles appear to be optional:

http://www.stamfordhistory.org/police.htm

Look at those two front mudflaps!

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

BigBen said:

what on earth can you do, in broad daylight, to make cagers more
attenttive to us???

My experience is that the farther to the right I ride, the closer the
cars pass me. I've taken to giving myself about 2-3 feet from the
pavement edge (on rural roads), and the cars generally pass at a
respectful distance. This is, I think, in keeping with the "Effective
Cycling" thinking, though I haven't read the book.

My theory is that when drivers see a cyclist hugging the right edge,
they don't register any need to react or deal with the situation - just
drive along as if nothing is there. Riding approximately where the
cars' right wheel runs (again, on narrow rural roads) may immediately
register in their semi-conscious heads: "Oh, there's something I need to
deal with," and they move over to pass.

Anyone trying this method will need to see how it flies in their
locality. The drivers around here (western Oregon, USA) seem to
tolerate it OK; in fact I find that the more assertive I am about my
right to a place in the road, the better behaved the drivers are. No
knowing what the drivers in *your* locality are like.

Footnotes:
1) I ride with a mirror, to keep an eye back there - but if I move over,
it's going to be at the last moment or so. No value to me or other
cyclists to show that I can be intimidated off the roadway.

2) Annoyingly, while the cars do move left to pass, they don't seem to
be able to register blind turns or oncoming traffic. Today I had a Semi
Gravel Truck pass me well over the centerline, *nearly* taking out an
oncoming garbage truck. All on a road with a minimum of 1/2 mile
visibility in both directions. I'm not sure if the flying debris would
have hit me or not, though the collision would have been spectacular -
but it pays to be alert in these situations.

Mark J.

Quoted message said:

If the bicyclist is doing 20 mph in dense 60 mph traffic and hoping
that drivers will swerve around him, he's hoping that someone closing
on him at 40 mph in heavy traffic will notice him and swerve in time.

At 60 mph, the car approaches a 20 mph bicyclist at about 60 feet per
second.

If the driver is keeping 60 feet behind the next car (fat chance in
dense 60 mph traffic), he has roughly 1 second to see and swerve
around a bicycle that suddenly appears as the driver ahead of him
swerves.

While I generally find the "some roads are too dangerous for cyclists"
line distasteful (urban freeways excepted, sometimes), since it seems
the start of a slippery slope[1], I do have to agree with one thing
here, so much so that I have a maxim:

"It's the *second* car that gets you."

Be careful out there, everybody.

[1] For example, Cycle Oregon [event ride, many hundreds of cyclists]
used a lovely rural road recently that I'm very fond of. Reportedly (I
didn't do the ride) some evil persons spread tacks and someone posted a
sign declaring "Anyone riding a bicycle on this road is insane." Let's
not encourage these yahoos.

Mark J.

Quoted message said:

I don't think that the driver needs to get mad to hit the bicyclist.
In those conditions, the driver will hit the bicyclist if he sneezes.

And plenty of dense traffic goes faster than 60 mph. A bicyclist doing
20 mph and expecting dense traffic to swerve is going to suffer the
same fate as a deer running down the road during rush hour.

Dense high-speed traffic is a fact of life on some roads, which is why
there are signs prohibiting bicycles on many stretches of the
interstate highway and requiring minimum speeds.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

Exactly! This works well for me in the Maryland Suburbs. Though, I
probably have a greater share of semiconscious to brain dead drivers in
this part of the country. LOL, I was riding along one early pre-rush
hour morning. A car passes me on the left. No problem. Then about
40-50 feet in front of me this driver starts merging in front of me.
He merged and merged and merged until he was up on the curb taking out
trees and mail boxes!! I couldn't believe what I was seeing. I
shudder to think what would have happened if Einstein had become
preoccupied with whatever he was doing behind me!!

Mark said:

My experience is that the farther to the right I ride, the closer the
cars pass me. I've taken to giving myself about 2-3 feet from the
pavement edge (on rural roads), and the cars generally pass at a
respectful distance. This is, I think, in keeping with the "Effective
Cycling" thinking, though I haven't read the book.

My theory is that when drivers see a cyclist hugging the right edge,
they don't register any need to react or deal with the situation - just
drive along as if nothing is there. Riding approximately where the
cars' right wheel runs (again, on narrow rural roads) may immediately
register in their semi-conscious heads: "Oh, there's something I need to
deal with," and they move over to pass.

Anyone trying this method will need to see how it flies in their
locality. The drivers around here (western Oregon, USA) seem to
tolerate it OK; in fact I find that the more assertive I am about my
right to a place in the road, the better behaved the drivers are. No
knowing what the drivers in *your* locality are like.

Footnotes:
1) I ride with a mirror, to keep an eye back there - but if I move over,
it's going to be at the last moment or so. No value to me or other
cyclists to show that I can be intimidated off the roadway.

2) Annoyingly, while the cars do move left to pass, they don't seem to
be able to register blind turns or oncoming traffic. Today I had a Semi
Gravel Truck pass me well over the centerline, *nearly* taking out an
oncoming garbage truck. All on a road with a minimum of 1/2 mile
visibility in both directions. I'm not sure if the flying debris would
have hit me or not, though the collision would have been spectacular -
but it pays to be alert in these situations.

Mark J.