Hit by a car

The frame has to be returned to trek for xray analysis. Trek should then
contact the insurance company with the results of the test. I doubt this is
under warranty, as the assumed breakage is not due to manufacturing defect.
The insurance company should then reimburse Trek for provision of a
replacement frame.

--
--------------------------
Andre Charlebois
AGC-PC support
http://agc-pc.tripod.com
BPE, MCSE4.0, CNA, A+

"Billy Boone" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:FcaLc.124813$%_6.83918@attbi_s01...

Quoted message said:

A little over a week ago, I was hit on my bike. An old lady never saw me
and hit me. She did not hit me but hit the rear of my bike. I have some
road rash, bumps and bruises but consider myself fortunate to have walked
away from the incident.

I was riding my 2001 (red/white/blue - Postal) Trek 5200 - carbon fiber.
Her insurance requested I take it to a bike shop for assessment.

The bike has some cosmetic damage and the rear wheel is toast. I'm most
concerned about the frame.

Is there anyway to check the integrity of a carbon fiber frame?

What should I be expecting from the insurance company?

BBB

Billy Boone said:

A little over a week ago, I was hit on my bike. An old lady never saw me
and hit me. She did not hit me but hit the rear of my bike. I have some
road rash, bumps and bruises but consider myself fortunate to have walked
away from the incident.

I was riding my 2001 (red/white/blue - Postal) Trek 5200 - carbon fiber.
Her insurance requested I take it to a bike shop for assessment.

The bike has some cosmetic damage and the rear wheel is toast. I'm most
concerned about the frame.

Is there anyway to check the integrity of a carbon fiber frame?

What should I be expecting from the insurance company?

BBB

Hi, it must be the week for old ladies. Here is the account I wrote on
Sunday, for About.com bicycling -

Hi, well I was having a very nice ride, taking it kind of easy, just
enjoying the sunny day. I rode just under 26 miles, but I was about a
mile from home, going down a long slight decline. I was traveling at
somewhere between 21-22 mph. This is a two lane road with a parking
lane on both sides. So I was riding in the parking lane, a car goes
by, moves over to the right and it appeared that they were going to
turn right. I moved out into the traffic lane and then I saw the left
directional go on. The car did a U-turn right in front of me! I hit
the rear brake and started skidding, bang, I ran into the left rear
quarter panel. Down I went, landing on my artifical leg, where the
right hip is and I tore up the skin on my right elbow. The car kept
going, for a half a block and parked. She never saw me, even after I
ran into her. She was probably in her 80s. First she denied it, then
she blamed me.

The bike seems ok, it knocked the handlebars and seat both to to the
right, but no scrapes or visible damage to the bike. Because she
blamed me and got [censored] about it, I had someone call the police. She
was issued a warning and the cop told her that she was at fault. Both
her and the old guy at the house she was going to, kept pointing to my
artifical leg and telling the cops that I obviously had problems and
didn't know how to ride. I overheard the one police officer tell them,
that what they were saying was mean, wrong, and that they didn't want
to hear it again.
It has been about three hours and both my hip and arm are starting to
ache. I'll see how I feel in the morning, I have her insurance contact
info.
I'm a little worried about the carbon fiber bars and seat post. They
recommend replacement after an accident. When I loosened and then
retightened the seat post clamp, the clamp split under the bolt. I
wasn't putting much torque on it, so it may have been stressed. I rode
the bike home and it seemed fine. If her insurance is cool about it I
would like to have the bike [& me] checked out.
I was wearing a red helmet and a bright yellow jersey, but, yet, she
never saw me.
There was a witness, but he left, before I got his name. Right after
it happened, I was focusing on the license plate of the car, because,
it kept going. Like I said, it stopped a little ways up the road. She
was heading towards the door of the house, when I started yelling at
her, to stop. She never did show any concern for my well being.
___________________________________________________

That was Sunday, I am still sore and pretty bruised up on my right
hip. A couple things I forgot at first was, that she said, how could
I see anything with those dark glasses. They are sunglasses, it was
sunny out. I also remember that, after she made the u-turn, she
hesitated, maybe stopped completely, and then drove ahead. So she knew
something happened.
I tried calling her insurance company. She gave the police the name of
her health insurance, with a phone # that has been changed, four years
ago. Even her own phone # is wrong, it is the old man's #. I found
hers in the phone book, but so far can't reach her. I'd like to get
the bars and post replaced.

And I know, I need to work on my emergency braking. I just grabbed the
rear. I had slowed enough so that the wheel is fine. I'm sure when I
hit, it spun the front forward to the left, as I went down on my right
side. I think the bars and saddle were both twisted by me, not the
ground, if that matters.

Even now, I still believe that -
Life is Good!
Jeff

Jeff Starr wrote:

{Nasty Old Lady story snipped}

Quoted message said:

That was Sunday, I am still sore and pretty bruised up on my right
hip. A couple things I forgot at first was, that she said, how could
I see anything with those dark glasses. They are sunglasses, it was
sunny out. I also remember that, after she made the u-turn, she
hesitated, maybe stopped completely, and then drove ahead. So she knew
something happened.
I tried calling her insurance company. She gave the police the name of
her health insurance, with a phone # that has been changed, four years
ago. Even her own phone # is wrong, it is the old man's #. I found
hers in the phone book, but so far can't reach her. I'd like to get
the bars and post replaced. {snip}

Have you contacted the police officers who responded and informed them of
these "faux IDs"? Perhaps a followup visit from them might jog her memory
of who her insurance is with.

Bill "keep after the old bat" S.

My old lady I'm not real sure knew she hit me either until I told her. She
didn't want to call the police - I called the police (didn't have a cell
phone so asked a neighbor). When I returned she had some info written on a
piece of paper (her name - she only wrote Mrs. Ball, her address (street
address only - no city, state or zip code) and phone number). I convinced
her to show me her insurance card, then wrote down her VIN number and
license plate number. I then told her I was waiting for the police. Sat
down by my bike - and then she left. I honestly don't think she thought she
was doing a thing wrong (she was confused the entire time).

My incident the lady was crossing a 4 lane road (2 lanes each direction)
from a side street stop sign. So she began crossing and I only had one
option by the time I noticed her (trying to stop would have simply put me
right in her path) - I pedalled like hell and almost made it. She hit me
and down I went.

She never even hit the brakes.

BBB

"Jeff Starr" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Billy Boone said:

A little over a week ago, I was hit on my bike. An old lady never saw me
and hit me. She did not hit me but hit the rear of my bike. I have some
road rash, bumps and bruises but consider myself fortunate to have walked
away from the incident.

I was riding my 2001 (red/white/blue - Postal) Trek 5200 - carbon fiber.
Her insurance requested I take it to a bike shop for assessment.

The bike has some cosmetic damage and the rear wheel is toast. I'm most
concerned about the frame.

Is there anyway to check the integrity of a carbon fiber frame?

What should I be expecting from the insurance company?

BBB

Hi, it must be the week for old ladies. Here is the account I wrote on
Sunday, for About.com bicycling -

Hi, well I was having a very nice ride, taking it kind of easy, just
enjoying the sunny day. I rode just under 26 miles, but I was about a
mile from home, going down a long slight decline. I was traveling at
somewhere between 21-22 mph. This is a two lane road with a parking
lane on both sides. So I was riding in the parking lane, a car goes
by, moves over to the right and it appeared that they were going to
turn right. I moved out into the traffic lane and then I saw the left
directional go on. The car did a U-turn right in front of me! I hit
the rear brake and started skidding, bang, I ran into the left rear
quarter panel. Down I went, landing on my artifical leg, where the
right hip is and I tore up the skin on my right elbow. The car kept
going, for a half a block and parked. She never saw me, even after I
ran into her. She was probably in her 80s. First she denied it, then
she blamed me.

The bike seems ok, it knocked the handlebars and seat both to to the
right, but no scrapes or visible damage to the bike. Because she
blamed me and got [censored] about it, I had someone call the police. She
was issued a warning and the cop told her that she was at fault. Both
her and the old guy at the house she was going to, kept pointing to my
artifical leg and telling the cops that I obviously had problems and
didn't know how to ride. I overheard the one police officer tell them,
that what they were saying was mean, wrong, and that they didn't want
to hear it again.
It has been about three hours and both my hip and arm are starting to
ache. I'll see how I feel in the morning, I have her insurance contact
info.
I'm a little worried about the carbon fiber bars and seat post. They
recommend replacement after an accident. When I loosened and then
retightened the seat post clamp, the clamp split under the bolt. I
wasn't putting much torque on it, so it may have been stressed. I rode
the bike home and it seemed fine. If her insurance is cool about it I
would like to have the bike [& me] checked out.
I was wearing a red helmet and a bright yellow jersey, but, yet, she
never saw me.
There was a witness, but he left, before I got his name. Right after
it happened, I was focusing on the license plate of the car, because,
it kept going. Like I said, it stopped a little ways up the road. She
was heading towards the door of the house, when I started yelling at
her, to stop. She never did show any concern for my well being.
___________________________________________________

That was Sunday, I am still sore and pretty bruised up on my right
hip. A couple things I forgot at first was, that she said, how could
I see anything with those dark glasses. They are sunglasses, it was
sunny out. I also remember that, after she made the u-turn, she
hesitated, maybe stopped completely, and then drove ahead. So she knew
something happened.
I tried calling her insurance company. She gave the police the name of
her health insurance, with a phone # that has been changed, four years
ago. Even her own phone # is wrong, it is the old man's #. I found
hers in the phone book, but so far can't reach her. I'd like to get
the bars and post replaced.

And I know, I need to work on my emergency braking. I just grabbed the
rear. I had slowed enough so that the wheel is fine. I'm sure when I
hit, it spun the front forward to the left, as I went down on my right
side. I think the bars and saddle were both twisted by me, not the
ground, if that matters.

Even now, I still believe that -
Life is Good!
Jeff

"Billy Boone" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<FcaLc.124813$%_6.83918@attbi_s01>...

Quoted message said:

A little over a week ago, I was hit on my bike. An old lady never saw me
and hit me. She did not hit me but hit the rear of my bike. I have some
road rash, bumps and bruises but consider myself fortunate to have walked
away from the incident.

I was riding my 2001 (red/white/blue - Postal) Trek 5200 - carbon fiber.
Her insurance requested I take it to a bike shop for assessment.

The bike has some cosmetic damage and the rear wheel is toast. I'm most
concerned about the frame.

Is there anyway to check the integrity of a carbon fiber frame?

What should I be expecting from the insurance company?

BBB

You should ask for a new bike. Don't risk possible injury should the
frame have less than obvious damage. If they don't buy you a spanking
new OCLV, then find a good lawyer.

"Billy Boone" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<FcaLc.124813$%_6.83918@attbi_s01>...

Quoted message said:

A little over a week ago, I was hit on my bike. An old lady never saw me
and hit me. She did not hit me but hit the rear of my bike. I have some
road rash, bumps and bruises but consider myself fortunate to have walked
away from the incident.

I was riding my 2001 (red/white/blue - Postal) Trek 5200 - carbon fiber.
Her insurance requested I take it to a bike shop for assessment.

The bike has some cosmetic damage and the rear wheel is toast. I'm most
concerned about the frame.

Is there anyway to check the integrity of a carbon fiber frame?

What should I be expecting from the insurance company?

BBB

Take it to a good shop familiar with Trek. CF is tricky stuff. Small
cracks propogate into big ones rather quickly, leading to failure.
You do not want a failure of a tube or fork blade when descending a
big hill, so get it checked thoroughly. Good news is CF is stong; if
it survives then all is good. I have a Trek CF bike that I was riding
when I was (apparently) hit from behind. Apparently as that is the
only reasonable explanation of how me and the bike got thrown, but no
memory of events; I woke up in the hospital. Bike was fine, still is
in fact. But do know of crash induced failures of CF, including one
nasty one where a CF fork blade snapped some time after the accident.
This is your one chance to get things checked right; if it fails in 3
months you will know it was the accident, but her insurance will not
think so and replacement of your bike, and the medical/dental bills
will be your responsibility in that case, not theirs.

- rick

I would think full replacement value for property damage, at least.
There is no feasible way to rule out damage to frame. Dont let the
insurance company push you around. They should be happy youre not
pushing it beyond property damage.
If you get a new one and sell the old bike, let people know the
history.

"Billy Boone" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<FcaLc.124813$%_6.83918@attbi_s01>...

Quoted message said:

A little over a week ago, I was hit on my bike. An old lady never saw me
and hit me. She did not hit me but hit the rear of my bike. I have some
road rash, bumps and bruises but consider myself fortunate to have walked
away from the incident.

I was riding my 2001 (red/white/blue - Postal) Trek 5200 - carbon fiber.
Her insurance requested I take it to a bike shop for assessment.

The bike has some cosmetic damage and the rear wheel is toast. I'm most
concerned about the frame.

Is there anyway to check the integrity of a carbon fiber frame?

What should I be expecting from the insurance company?

BBB

"peter gager" <[email hidden]> wrote: (clip) They should be happy youre
not pushing it beyond property damage. (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I agree. The insurer is interested in minimizing payouts, while, at the
same time, avoiding large future claims, lawsuits and payouts. The adjuster
is doing a balancing act--between the cost of a new frame and the risk of a
future injury settlement, if the frame breaks while you are riding it.
However, if the adjuster is not a cyclist, this may not as clear to him as
it is to you. If they are reluctant to replace the frame, make sure you
have plenty of correspondence on file to protect yourself in the future. A
letter from the bike shop, or, better yet, Trek, stating the risk of
continuing to use the frame, would be a powerful tool. Their lawyers aren't
stupid-- most likely they would prefer to spend hundreds of dollars now
than risk multi-thousands later in an injury settlement.

"peter gager" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I would think full replacement value for property damage, at

least.

Quoted message said:

There is no feasible way to rule out damage to frame. Dont let

the

Quoted message said:

insurance company push you around. They should be happy youre

not

Quoted message said:

pushing it beyond property damage.
If you get a new one and sell the old bike, let people know the
history.

Well, actually, he should pursue a claim for personal injuries,
albeit a modest one. That way the adjuster has a basis for
paying a dollar amount which may be higher that the known
property damage, but which would pay for a new frame.

These claims are very simple and usually involve a report from an
LBS or two saying that the frame is damaged; that its longevity
cannot be guaranteed, and that they recommend a new frame. The
adjuster takes the old frame and give the victim a check. If
that does not work, then you throw in a personal injury claim and
get the same dollars under two claims (property and bodily
injury) as opposed to one (property). Some places split
adjusting of BI and PI claims, so that may be a problem, vis.,
getting bounced to a different adjuster. But on a small case
like this, their will be one adjuster who will probably just pay
for a new frame -- assuming someone convincing says that a new
frame is needed -- and who will throw in a few hundred bucks for
a personal injury settlement. -- Jay Beattie.

Billy Boone said:

A little over a week ago, I was hit on my bike. An old lady never saw me
and hit me. She did not hit me but hit the rear of my bike. I have some
road rash, bumps and bruises but consider myself fortunate to have walked
away from the incident.

I was riding my 2001 (red/white/blue - Postal) Trek 5200 - carbon fiber.
Her insurance requested I take it to a bike shop for assessment.

The bike has some cosmetic damage and the rear wheel is toast. I'm most
concerned about the frame.

Is there anyway to check the integrity of a carbon fiber frame?

Yes, via x-ray and other techniques, none of which will exist at any
local bike shop, and none of which are inexpensive. Do not let the
insurance company specify the method or place of inspection; you
should not trust them to pick a service that is either honest or
competent.

Quoted message said:

What should I be expecting from the insurance company?

Ideally, nothing less than what they owe you; replacement of that
which was damaged, and compensation for the hardships encountered (if
any) as a result of the lack of the bike, plus a settlement for
injuries if any are present.

Realistically, they're probably going to try to shaft you. They'll
most likely offer a settlement that values the bike as though it was a
used unit for sale openly, which it wasn't.

I would give them the option of replacing the bike with a new one of
the same model plus giving you the salvage as full and immediate
settlement if you're sure that there are no injuries to address. If
they balk, tell them that you've been advised that you really should
talk to an attorney before you say *anything* additional, and see if
their offer changes. If it doesn't, then talk to an attorney.

You have a $2800 investment to protect. Do not let them scam you out
of any part of it. Insurance companies often (in fact, usually) will
try to minimize the amount that they pay in situations like this, such
as by saying that the bike is severely depreciated. In the case of a
Trek frame, this is an invalid argument if you bought the bike new
since you still have a full warranty on the frame that you will *not*
have if you buy (or are provided with) a *used* replacement. That
warranty is valuable, and will only be preserved if you get either a
new bike or at least the frame replaced *via a Trek authorized
dealer*, and with the labor to swap all of the components over and
build the new wheel, the fractional cost difference between the
complete bike and the frame may be small, plus you're off the bike
until it's fixed.
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

Billy Boone said:

My old lady I'm not real sure knew she hit me either until I told her. She
didn't want to call the police - I called the police (didn't have a cell
phone so asked a neighbor). When I returned she had some info written on a
piece of paper (her name - she only wrote Mrs. Ball, her address (street
address only - no city, state or zip code) and phone number). I convinced
her to show me her insurance card, then wrote down her VIN number and
license plate number. I then told her I was waiting for the police. Sat
down by my bike - and then she left. I honestly don't think she thought she
was doing a thing wrong (she was confused the entire time).

My incident the lady was crossing a 4 lane road (2 lanes each direction)
from a side street stop sign. So she began crossing and I only had one
option by the time I noticed her (trying to stop would have simply put me
right in her path) - I pedalled like hell and almost made it. She hit me
and down I went.

She never even hit the brakes.

She *left*????

Ohhh, this just gets better and better.

Don't give an inch on replacement. If she left the scene on an
incident where the damages are this much, I think you've got a real
strong case for making them grovel before you sign off on any release.
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

Billy Boone said:

What should I be expecting from the insurance company?

A runaround. They will try to avoid paying replacement cost and will
try to pay "market value" as determined by them. Plan on having to
stand your ground, especially if her insurance company is State Farm.
IME they are the worst to deal with (which is why I now have other
insurance).

Billy Boone said:

My old lady I'm not real sure knew she hit me either until I told
her. She didn't want to call the police - I called the police
(didn't have a cell phone so asked a neighbor). When I returned she
had some info written on a piece of paper (her name - she only wrote
Mrs. Ball, her address (street address only - no city, state or zip
code) and phone number). I convinced her to show me her insurance
card, then wrote down her VIN number and license plate number. I
then told her I was waiting for the police. Sat down by my bike -
and then she left. I honestly don't think she thought she was doing
a thing wrong (she was confused the entire time).

Here I speek as a geropsychologist operating on very little
information, so am speaking in general principles.

She may actually be confused as a baseline. Alzheimer's is an
insidious illness and people who have it generally don't realize it.
Often neither do family members. Traffic accidents are not
infrequently the event that brings things to a head. You should tell
the police that she seemed confused and encourage them to check that
out with her. The cops have a standard routine for assessing the
mental status of people they deal with.

People with Alzheimer's become dangerous drivers very quickly, but
usually they are lucky sometimes for years. Other people can react
quickly enough, usually, to avoid collisions. Eventually someone
doesn't, though. About 20 to 25% of people over the age of 80 have
some degree of dementia. Unfortunately, families and police,
etc. are often reluctant to take away a driver's license- in part
because our cities are so poorly designed that not having a car
almost always relegates people with dementia into some kind of care
setting- assisted living, board and care, nursing home. There are no
options to not driving for most elderly people in many American
cities. Here in Minnesota the situation is going from bad to worse
in this regard.

b3booner-<< A little over a week ago, I was hit on my bike. >><BR><BR>

As a guy that was also hit by a car(actually a pickup, from behind), talk to a
lawyer. Insurance companies care about saving $, not helping you or the lady
that hit you. To get a fair settlement, see a lawyer.

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

search to: LAW PERSONAL INJURY

and search to: LAW NOLO
you sue-don't hire a lawyer unless the suit will bring millions

(Qui si parla Campagnolo ) said:

b3booner-<< A little over a week ago, I was hit on my
bike. >><BR><BR>

As a guy that was also hit by a car(actually a pickup, from behind),
talk to a lawyer. Insurance companies care about saving $, not
helping you or the lady that hit you. To get a fair settlement, see
a lawyer.

A sad but true statement, even when the settlement is a relatively
small amount of money (less than $5000) to a multibillion dollar
company. The job of insurance "adjusters," "claims agents" or what
have you is to spend as little money as possible.

When my wife's Bridgestone XO-1 was run over by an elderly driver
attempting to park her car in front of a beauty shop (she hit that
gas, roared over the curb, over the street sign with my wife's
bikelocked to it, nearly into the front windows of the beauty shop and
then down the sidewalk until she hit a tree and just about totalled
the car; she skimmed down 4 business storefronts in the process), the
driver's insurance as State Farm. They ran us around for months,
passing us from claims agent to claims agent, and eventually screwed
us by citing that the insurance was for "market value" not "replacment
cost," take it or leave it. We had our house, cars, umbrella
liability, etc. insurance through State Farm also. I sent a letter to
the CEO, telling him I had cancelled our insurance because of his
company screwing us over the bike- and that in saving about $1300, his
claims agent had cost his company about $60,000 in future premiums
over the course of my lifetime, not to mention that bad publicity with
friends and family State Farm would receive. I have known about a
dozen people to file claims with State Farm here in Minnesota, all of
them getting a similar runaround and attempts to get out of paying up.

Quoted message said:

and search to: LAW NOLO
you sue-don't hire a lawyer unless the suit will bring millions

Not true. I was hit, clearly and convincingly. The girl admitted it to the
cops, very clear cut. The bike was damaged and I was as well, but lightly. I
thought I could do it myself and I was wrong. I hired a lawyer and in 2 months
I had $7000 after fees. I was quite happy.
Phil Brown

"Tim McNamara" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

(Qui si parla Campagnolo ) said:

b3booner-<< A little over a week ago, I was hit on my
bike. >><BR><BR>

As a guy that was also hit by a car(actually a pickup, from

behind),

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

talk to a lawyer. Insurance companies care about saving $,

not

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

helping you or the lady that hit you. To get a fair

settlement, see

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

a lawyer.

A sad but true statement, even when the settlement is a

relatively

Quoted message said:

small amount of money (less than $5000) to a multibillion

dollar

Quoted message said:

company. The job of insurance "adjusters," "claims agents" or

what

Quoted message said:

have you is to spend as little money as possible.

When my wife's Bridgestone XO-1 was run over by an elderly

driver

Quoted message said:

attempting to park her car in front of a beauty shop (she hit

that

Quoted message said:

gas, roared over the curb, over the street sign with my wife's
bikelocked to it, nearly into the front windows of the beauty

shop and

Quoted message said:

then down the sidewalk until she hit a tree and just about

totalled

Quoted message said:

the car; she skimmed down 4 business storefronts in the

process), the

Quoted message said:

driver's insurance as State Farm. They ran us around for

months,

Quoted message said:

passing us from claims agent to claims agent, and eventually

screwed

Quoted message said:

us by citing that the insurance was for "market value" not

"replacment

Quoted message said:

cost," take it or leave it. We had our house, cars, umbrella
liability, etc. insurance through State Farm also. I sent a

letter to

Quoted message said:

the CEO, telling him I had cancelled our insurance because of

his

Quoted message said:

company screwing us over the bike- and that in saving about

$1300, his

Quoted message said:

claims agent had cost his company about $60,000 in future

premiums

Quoted message said:

over the course of my lifetime, not to mention that bad

publicity with

Quoted message said:

friends and family State Farm would receive. I have known

about a

Quoted message said:

dozen people to file claims with State Farm here in Minnesota,

all of

Quoted message said:

them getting a similar runaround and attempts to get out of

paying up.

This is why State Farm has been sued about a billion times for
its claims practices, including several class action suits in
this state that have generated good money for plaintiff's
attorneys. -- Jay Beattie.