Hill training on the bike

Dave said:

I've got a few good bike tracks near home. Some have hills I can push up
while remaining seated, some I end up standing ont the pedals most of
the way up. If my aim is to get some strength for triathlons that are
always held on the flat should I stick to training in the seated
position and just ride the hills where that is possible most of the
time? Or is there value in riding the steeper hills where I have to get up?

Dave

Hills are great training for any event, flat or otherwise. To quote my
(bike) training book:

"Minute for minute, it's hard to beat the benefits of time spent
climbing. Take it from three-time TdF champion Greg LeMond, who says
"There's no better training than riding hills. For me it was the easiest
way to get in shape." It improves everything - strength, power, stamina,
cardio conditioning. As opposed to a flat 90 minute ride, one that
includes a couple of thousand vertical feet will leave you feeling
happily hammered, satisfied that you got a lot for your precious on-bike
time."

I don't know much about tris, but I imagine the bike leg (if it's flat
and there's no drafting allowed) is a steady-state effort where you try
to hover just under your lactate threshhold (LT). Strangely the best way
to raise your LT is not by doing steady-state training but by doing
hard/easy intervals - you can do this on the flat if you have the
self-discipline, but hills are a great natural interval enforcer,
particularly if you have a local track where you can go into the red
zone up a hill or two and recover for the rest of the lap.

If you really want to know more about bike training, the best advice I
can give is to get a good book (or a few).

HTH,

&roo

I can see the value in hill climbing as interval training, and that's
the main reason I'm looking at it. But I assume that you would use
different muscles seated and standing (but more than happy to be
corrected) , so I'm more interested in how the hill climbing should be
done for maximum benefit for a flat terrain race.

Andrew Swan said:

Dave said:

I've got a few good bike tracks near home. Some have hills I can push
up while remaining seated, some I end up standing ont the pedals most
of the way up. If my aim is to get some strength for triathlons that
are always held on the flat should I stick to training in the seated
position and just ride the hills where that is possible most of the
time? Or is there value in riding the steeper hills where I have to
get up?

Dave

Hills are great training for any event, flat or otherwise. To quote my
(bike) training book:

"Minute for minute, it's hard to beat the benefits of time spent
climbing. Take it from three-time TdF champion Greg LeMond, who says
"There's no better training than riding hills. For me it was the easiest
way to get in shape." It improves everything - strength, power, stamina,
cardio conditioning. As opposed to a flat 90 minute ride, one that
includes a couple of thousand vertical feet will leave you feeling
happily hammered, satisfied that you got a lot for your precious on-bike
time."

I don't know much about tris, but I imagine the bike leg (if it's flat
and there's no drafting allowed) is a steady-state effort where you try
to hover just under your lactate threshhold (LT). Strangely the best way
to raise your LT is not by doing steady-state training but by doing
hard/easy intervals - you can do this on the flat if you have the
self-discipline, but hills are a great natural interval enforcer,
particularly if you have a local track where you can go into the red
zone up a hill or two and recover for the rest of the lap.

If you really want to know more about bike training, the best advice I
can give is to get a good book (or a few).

HTH,

&roo

Dave said:

I can see the value in hill climbing as interval training, and that's
the main reason I'm looking at it. But I assume that you would use
different muscles seated and standing (but more than happy to be
corrected) , so I'm more interested in how the hill climbing should be
done for maximum benefit for a flat terrain race.

Andrew Swan said:

Dave said:

I've got a few good bike tracks near home. Some have hills I can push
up while remaining seated, some I end up standing ont the pedals most
of the way up. If my aim is to get some strength for triathlons that
are always held on the flat should I stick to training in the seated
position and just ride the hills where that is possible most of the
time? Or is there value in riding the steeper hills where I have to
get up?

Dave

Hills are great training for any event, flat or otherwise. To quote my
(bike) training book:

"Minute for minute, it's hard to beat the benefits of time spent
climbing. Take it from three-time TdF champion Greg LeMond, who says
"There's no better training than riding hills. For me it was the
easiest way to get in shape." It improves everything - strength,
power, stamina, cardio conditioning. As opposed to a flat 90 minute
ride, one that includes a couple of thousand vertical feet will leave
you feeling happily hammered, satisfied that you got a lot for your
precious on-bike time."

I don't know much about tris, but I imagine the bike leg (if it's flat
and there's no drafting allowed) is a steady-state effort where you
try to hover just under your lactate threshhold (LT). Strangely the
best way to raise your LT is not by doing steady-state training but by
doing hard/easy intervals - you can do this on the flat if you have
the self-discipline, but hills are a great natural interval enforcer,
particularly if you have a local track where you can go into the red
zone up a hill or two and recover for the rest of the lap.

If you really want to know more about bike training, the best advice I
can give is to get a good book (or a few).

HTH,

&roo

It depends on your riding style and the nature of the race course. If
your flat races are sometimes into headwinds, you will want to develop
power during training by climbing seated in a big gear at low revs. If
when you race you spin like a roadie (>= 90 rpm) rather than rolling a
bigger gear like a time triallist (~70-80rpm), you will want to do your
climbing in a smaller gear to train your legs and your brain to spin
properly.

You do use different muscles seated and standing (which is why it's good
to alternate between the two on longer climbs), but which one you do
most of is largely a matter of preference. In terms of training for a
flat ride, I think either is OK if you do enough of it hard enough.
Really your aim is to increase your aerobic capacity (how hard you can
go and for how long). Hills do this regardless of whether you sit or
stand (although I find it easier to bludge when sitting!).

Interesting to hear what more qualified people have to say...

&roo

Andrew Swan <[email hidden]> wrote in news:gIQLb.423
[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

If
when you race you spin like a roadie (>= 90 rpm) rather than rolling a
bigger gear like a time triallist (~70-80rpm), you will want to do your
climbing in a smaller gear to train your legs and your brain to spin
properly.

Even though the bike event in Tri is most simlar to a TT, most triathletes
try to maintain a high cadence because it leaves their legs in better shape
for the run.

Tom

Quoted message said:

corrected) , so I'm more interested in how the hill climbing should be
done for maximum benefit for a flat terrain race.

(Assuming training should be specific to the event.)

If you do only hill training for the flat?

You want to use the same muscles in the same way as they would be used in
the the race, at least for much of your training.

In the time trial, you would be seated, at high, even pedal cadence, with no
downhills, though wind could be a big factor.

So, conduct yourself accordingly.

Climbing hills at low cadence, coasting down, standing a lot, etc., would
not be best.

Dave <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I can see the value in hill climbing as interval training, and that's
the main reason I'm looking at it. But I assume that you would use
different muscles seated and standing (but more than happy to be
corrected) , so I'm more interested in how the hill climbing should be
done for maximum benefit for a flat terrain race.

<snip>

Stay seated with a normal cadence on moderate climbs to get some
benefit to carryover to flat time trials, occasionally stick it in a
bigger gear at slower RPM. Any hill work will help you develop bike
"strength," but steeper climbs and standing are not the best work to
do when running well afterwards is also a goal. The other poster is
right about doing interval/LT work on the bike. An example week
(bike) might look like

T: ride easy-moderate 2 hr in hills
Th: ride 30min warm up, 2 x 20 min LT with 10min spin between, 30min
cooldown
Sat: long ride with some hills easy-mod
Sun: 2 hrs flat 30min spin, 1 tempo (mod-mod hard) 30 spin

"Dave" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I've got a few good bike tracks near home. Some have hills I can push up
while remaining seated, some I end up standing ont the pedals most of
the way up. If my aim is to get some strength for triathlons that are
always held on the flat should I stick to training in the seated
position and just ride the hills where that is possible most of the
time? Or is there value in riding the steeper hills where I have to get up?

Dave

Are you assuming that triathlons are always done on flat courses or do you search out flat-course triathlons? If your assumption is
that the course will be flat you may want to take a look at some course profiles...

-CF

"ChronoFish" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:JgXMb.175$iI2.120@lakeread03...

Quoted message said:

Are you assuming that triathlons are always done on flat courses or do you

search

Quoted message said:

out flat-course triathlons? If your assumption is that the course will be

flat you may

Quoted message said:

want to take a look at some course profiles...

Most of the Melbourne ones are, but the Canberra half certainly wasn't.
A workmate of mine did it and before the race we went over the course
profile, going "that's like 1:20 but twice as long", "that one's steeper but
not as long", etc.. :-)

hippy

Assuming you are racing in Melbourne the courses are flat. Sandringham
is probably the most undulating course, but nothing that a regular
Beach Road rider could not handle.

The best advice is get some quality time in the saddle. Hills will
make you stronger but will hurt you a lot if you are not ready for
lots of them. Build up to these things systematically and the strength
and speed will come.

Also, if you can, do some of your riding on the course you plan to
cover to get to know it better.

Go well.