Hill training on a treadmill

e:

Just don't get so attached to your machine that you do your
races on it...

This may call for an intervention, given how beautiful it is
in the mountains around LA.

I practically got knocked off my feet by the intoxicating
scent of a sweetbroom this morning. Try *that* on your
treadmill!

:-)

--Dan

"eNo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:MHDac.3$8c4.2@dfw-
service2.ext.ray.com...

Quoted message said:

This morning I did the following workout:

1) 1 mile warmup; stop and stretch
2) 2 miles with alternating 0/5% grade 0.1 intervals (10
0.1 hills); 11th hill at 5.0% for 0.2, then 0% to the
2.5 mile mark; stop and stretch.
3) 1 mile at tempo.

Whew, did that tax the old system. I got up to 187 HR (my
max is about 195 these days). All the while, I kept
telling myself the treadmill was doing all the work for
me, and that this was only 50% as hard than if I had done
it outdoors 😉.

--
ø¤º°`°º¤ø,,,,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,,,,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,,,,ø¤º°`°º¤ø¤º°`°º¤ø,-
,,,ø¤º eNo "If you can't go fast, go long." ø¤º°`°º¤ø,,,,-
ø¤º°`°º¤ø,,,,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,,,,ø¤º°`°º¤ø¤º°`°º¤ø,,,,ø¤º

Now go down to a track and take a time trial and see if
that workout has made any difference. I guarantee you that
it will do nothing. You can get on a stationary bike and
pedal as hard as you can and get your heart rate up too.
You can get on a step master and do the same thing. None of
these mechanical devices especially motorized ones are the
same as running. If you could get a nonmotorized treadmill
then it might make a difference. But as long as you have a
motor involved it makes no sense whatsoever except for
possibly recovery runs but I wouldn't even use it for that
either. You are just wasting your time and spinning your
wheels for nothing.

eNo <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<MHDac.3$8c4.2@dfw-
service2.ext.ray.com>...

Quoted message said:

This morning I did the following workout:

1) 1 mile warmup; stop and stretch
2) 2 miles with alternating 0/5% grade 0.1 intervals (10
0.1 hills); 11th hill at 5.0% for 0.2, then 0% to the
2.5 mile mark; stop and stretch.
3) 1 mile at tempo.

Whew, did that tax the old system. I got up to 187 HR (my
max is about 195 these days). All the while, I kept
telling myself the treadmill was doing all the work for
me, and that this was only 50% as hard than if I had done
it outdoors 😉.

One single workout would not do a lot of good, but doing
it several times will improve fitness. Many runners
(including Christine Clark) have found the treadmill to be
a useful tool.

The comparison with a bike is nonsensical. Specificity.

I see a couple of top triathletes using a treadmill
for training. I guess Hunter Kemper does not know what
he is doing.

"macelroy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Now go down to a track and take a time trial and see if
that workout has made any difference. I guarantee you that
it will do nothing. You can get on a stationary bike and
pedal as hard as you can and get your heart rate up too.
You can get on a step master and do the same thing. None
of these mechanical devices especially motorized ones are
the same as running. If you could get a nonmotorized
treadmill then it might make a difference. But as long as
you have a motor involved it makes no sense whatsoever
except for possibly recovery runs but I wouldn't even use
it for that either. You are just wasting your time and
spinning your wheels for nothing.

eNo <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

This morning I did the following workout:

1) 1 mile warmup; stop and stretch
2) 2 miles with alternating 0/5% grade 0.1 intervals (10
0.1 hills); 11th hill at 5.0% for 0.2, then 0% to the
2.5 mile mark; stop and

stretch.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

3) 1 mile at tempo.

Whew, did that tax the old system. I got up to 187 HR
(my max is about 195 these days). All the while, I kept
telling myself the treadmill was doing all the work for
me, and that this was only 50% as hard than if I had
done it outdoors 😉.

eNo said:

This morning I did the following workout:

1) 1 mile warmup; stop and stretch
2) 2 miles with alternating 0/5% grade 0.1 intervals (10
0.1 hills); 11th hill at 5.0% for 0.2, then 0% to the
2.5 mile mark; stop and stretch.
3) 1 mile at tempo.

Whew, did that tax the old system. I got up to 187 HR (my
max is about 195 these days). All the while, I kept
telling myself the treadmill was doing all the work for
me, and that this was only 50% as hard than if I had done
it outdoors 😉.

Now, do y'all see why we like hills! But if you're outdoors,
you've got some awesome scenery, as Dan already mentioned.
Actually, hills are probably "easier" outdoors in some
respects because of the variety and attention to footing if
you're on single track. Real hills also work more muscles,
esp. the balance ones in foot/ankle, and aren't as
repetitive. That's one of the reasons I don't like flat or
roads - it's too repetitive for my feet. ENjoy!

Dot

--
"Success is different things to different people" -Bernd
Heinrich in Racing the Antelope

"Sam" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

One single workout would not do a lot of good, but doing
it several times will improve fitness. Many runners
(including Christine Clark) have found the treadmill to be
a useful tool.

The comparison with a bike is nonsensical. Specificity.

I see a couple of top triathletes using a treadmill for
training. I guess Hunter Kemper does not know what he
is doing.

As does Haile Gebreselassie. Whoever said the treadmill is
useless is clearly a troll.

Edward

"Edward" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Sam" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]-
nk.net>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

One single workout would not do a lot of good, but doing
it several

times

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

will improve fitness. Many runners (including Christine
Clark) have

found

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the treadmill to be a useful tool.

The comparison with a bike is nonsensical. Specificity.

I see a couple of top triathletes using a treadmill for
training. I

guess

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Hunter Kemper does not know what he is doing.

As does Haile Gebreselassie. Whoever said the treadmill is
useless is clearly a troll.

Maybe someone reversed the direction of his treadmill to
practice the downhill running intervals he recommends.

In article said:

"Edward" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Sam" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]-
.net>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

One single workout would not do a lot of good, but
doing it several

times

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

will improve fitness. Many runners (including Christine
Clark) have

found

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the treadmill to be a useful tool.

The comparison with a bike is nonsensical. Specificity.

I see a couple of top triathletes using a treadmill for
training. I

guess

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Hunter Kemper does not know what he is doing.

As does Haile Gebreselassie. Whoever said the treadmill
is useless is clearly a troll.

Maybe someone reversed the direction of his treadmill to
practice the downhill running intervals he recommends.

Maybe he fell off a treadmill and bumped his head during
his infancy.

--
Donovan Rebbechi pegasus.rutgers.edu~elflordOpen ↗

macelroy said:

Now go down to a track and take a time trial and see if
that workout has made any difference. I guarantee you that
it will do nothing.

Right, like it did nothing when I got that 10K PR recently
after months of exclusive treadmill speed training, with
only long runs (once per week outdoors). Face it. You
understand nothing about physics, and not much more about
running. You are a fraud and a joke, and we read your
postings only for comic relief.

--
ø¤º°`°º¤ø,,,,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,,,,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,,,,ø¤º°`°º¤ø¤º°`°º¤ø,,,-
,ø¤º eNo "If you can't go fast, go long." ø¤º°`°º¤ø,,,,ø¤º°-
`°º¤ø,,,,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,,,,ø¤º°`°º¤ø¤º°`°º¤ø,,,,ø¤º

eNo <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

This morning I did the following workout:

1) 1 mile warmup; stop and stretch
2) 2 miles with alternating 0/5% grade 0.1 intervals (10
0.1 hills); 11th hill at 5.0% for 0.2, then 0% to the
2.5 mile mark; stop and stretch.
3) 1 mile at tempo.

Whew, did that tax the old system. I got up to 187 HR (my
max is about 195 these days). All the while, I kept
telling myself the treadmill was doing all the work for
me, and that this was only 50% as hard than if I had done
it outdoors 😉.

Just wondering how much psychology plays into the running on
a treadmill. When running or racing I use the top of the
hill as a focus. Since there isn't any top of the hill to be
seen on a treadmill how does it affect how you are running.
I've never liked or used treadmills so I don't have my own
experience, just wondering how it compares in your world.

Andy

amh said:

eNo <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<MHDac.3$8c4.2@dfw-
service2.ext.ray.com>...

Quoted message said:

This morning I did the following workout:

1) 1 mile warmup; stop and stretch
2) 2 miles with alternating 0/5% grade 0.1 intervals (10
0.1 hills); 11th hill at 5.0% for 0.2, then 0% to the
2.5 mile mark; stop and stretch.
3) 1 mile at tempo.

Whew, did that tax the old system. I got up to 187 HR (my
max is about 195 these days). All the while, I kept
telling myself the treadmill was doing all the work for
me, and that this was only 50% as hard than if I had done
it outdoors 😉.

Just wondering how much psychology plays into the running
on a treadmill. When running or racing I use the top of
the hill as a focus. Since there isn't any top of the hill
to be seen on a treadmill how does it affect how you are
running. I've never liked or used treadmills so I don't
have my own experience, just wondering how it compares in
your world.

I find treadmill running psychologically challenging,
sometimes even draining. Running intervals of any kind
(hills, speed) helps by breaking the monotony. During hill-
training, my "top of the hill" is that upcoming 10th (or
whatever fraction) of a mile. One thing I can't practise as
well is exploding (speeding up) as I reach "the top." Though
I sometimes do it, it requires reaching forward to increase
the speed, and that's the last thing I want to do toward the
end of the interval for fear that the slightest break in
form will cause a problem.

BTW, the psychological challenge of a treadmill helps me
when I hit the road, either for a long run or a race. It's
such a treat. Freedom at last.

--
ø¤º°`°º¤ø,,,,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,,,,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,,,,ø¤º°`°º¤ø¤º°`°º¤ø,,,-
,ø¤º eNo "If you can't go fast, go long." ø¤º°`°º¤ø,,,,ø¤º°-
`°º¤ø,,,,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,,,,ø¤º°`°º¤ø¤º°`°º¤ø,,,,ø¤º

In article said:

eNo <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<MHDac.3$8c4.2@dfw-
service2.ext.ray.com>...

Quoted message said:

Just wondering how much psychology plays into the running
on a treadmill. When running or racing I use the top of
the hill as a focus.

Have you ever performed repeats on a track ? It's very
similar to that.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi pegasus.rutgers.edu~elflordOpen ↗

"amh" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

eNo <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

This morning I did the following workout:

1) 1 mile warmup; stop and stretch
2) 2 miles with alternating 0/5% grade 0.1 intervals (10
0.1 hills); 11th hill at 5.0% for 0.2, then 0% to the
2.5 mile mark; stop and

stretch.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

3) 1 mile at tempo.

Whew, did that tax the old system. I got up to 187 HR
(my max is about 195 these days). All the while, I kept
telling myself the treadmill was doing all the work for
me, and that this was only 50% as hard than if I had
done it outdoors 😉.

Just wondering how much psychology plays into the running
on a treadmill. When running or racing I use the top of
the hill as a focus. Since there isn't any top of the hill
to be seen on a treadmill how does it affect how you are
running. I've never liked or used treadmills so I don't
have my own experience, just wondering how it compares in
your world.

Andy

Andy, I cannot stand to run on a treadmill. Some of this is
an aversion to exercising indoors; some is related to the
fact that for 2 years every run on a treadmill usually
involved sick and demented things being done to me
periodically while running (finger sticks for blood, in-
dwelling venous catheters, muscle biopsies, probes in places
things ought not be).

I do think that it takes someone with a special mindset to
be able to train on a treadmill. I know a guy who one year
tried RAAM (bike race across America) who would train in a
basement in the dark for hours on end on his trainer to help
prepare himself physically and mentally for RAAM. Crazy.

"Donovan Rebbechi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article
<[email hidden]>,

amh said:

eNo <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Just wondering how much psychology plays into the
running on a treadmill. When running or racing I use the
top of the hill as a focus.

Have you ever performed repeats on a track ? It's very
similar to that.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi pegasus.rutgers.edu~elflordOpen ↗

I would say this is depending on the person. I have always
loved going to the track. I do not do it often (even when
training what passes for seriously) but when I do it is
time to put the hammer down and so I associate the track
with that. I also find the accuracy of the track to be
especially useful.

Now I cannot imagine running endless miles on a track. Jack
Daniels tells the story of spending some time at Ann Arbor
and every day, regardless of the weather, a guy would come
to the track and run for 90 minutes on the track. Jack never
understood it. The folks at UM said the guy had been doing
it for a couple of years.

In article said:

Now I cannot imagine running endless miles on a track.
Jack Daniels tells the story of spending some time at Ann
Arbor and every day, regardless of the weather, a guy
would come to the track and run for 90 minutes on the
track. Jack never understood it. The folks at UM said the
guy had been doing it for a couple of years.

Depends on how one does it. I go to the track, do 4 warmup,
12.5 tempo run, 4.5 cooldown, then 4 more for a 4x200, then
4 more cooldown for a total of 29 laps. My impression from
your posts is that if you did your tempos on a track (I
remember you do something like 2x20min at 10k pace), you
could easily get close to 40 laps total (depending on how
you do warmup/cooldown/rest).

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi pegasus.rutgers.edu~elflordOpen ↗

Sam said:

I do think that it takes someone with a special mindset to
be able to train on a treadmill.

Same goes for those that run 24/48/72 hours round and round
on a 1/4 mile track. I tried stationary biking once and no
amount of music, TV, books or naked dancing girls could take
away the total dislike.

--
Doug Freese "Caveat Lector" [email hidden]

Sam said:

I do think that it takes someone with a special mindset
to be able to train on a treadmill. I know a guy who one
year tried RAAM (bike race across America) who would
train in a basement in the dark for hours on end on his
trainer to help prepare himself physically and mentally
for RAAM. Crazy.

Sensory depraivation... That sounds like a good technique
to improve.

Doug Freese said:

Sam said:

I do think that it takes someone with a special mindset
to be able to train on a treadmill.

Same goes for those that run 24/48/72 hours round and
round on a 1/4 mile track. I tried stationary biking once
and no amount of music, TV, books or naked dancing girls
could take away the total dislike.

🙂 The one machine that I was not too averse to using was
:the
versaclimber - feet are strapped to pedals, hands holding
handholds, close eyes with no fear of falling off, then
climb away, and pretend I'm somewhere else - usually
climbing a mountain.

--
"Success is different things to different people" -Bernd
Heinrich in Racing the Antelope

"Donovan Rebbechi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]-
thlink.net>, Sam

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Now I cannot imagine running endless miles on a track.
Jack Daniels

tells

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the story of spending some time at Ann Arbor and every
day, regardless

of

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the weather, a guy would come to the track and run for
90 minutes on the track. Jack never understood it. The
folks at UM said the guy had been doing it for a couple
of years.

Depends on how one does it. I go to the track, do 4
warmup, 12.5 tempo

run, 4.5

Quoted message said:

cooldown, then 4 more for a 4x200, then 4 more cooldown
for a total of 29

laps.

Quoted message said:

My impression from your posts is that if you did your
tempos on a track (I remember you do something like
2x20min at 10k pace), you could easily get

close

Quoted message said:

to 40 laps total (depending on how you do
warmup/cooldown/rest).

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi pegasus.rutgers.edu~elflordOpen ↗

Yes, I could and did that a couple of times to "calibrate"
myself. But I usually do not run those runs on the track. I
save the track for VO2max workouts.

"Sam" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Donovan Rebbechi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Have you ever performed repeats on a track ? It's very
similar to that.

Quoted message said:

I would say this is depending on the person. I have always
loved going to the track. I do not do it often (even when
training what passes for seriously) but when I do it is
time to put the hammer down and so I associate the track
with that. I also find the accuracy of the track to

be

Quoted message said:

especially useful.

I don't mind running on a track especially since the one at
work is a high quality rubberized outdoor track. Also, I did
get limited access to an indoor track this winter. My only
problem is that I quickly lose track of my laps. Any advice?

Jenn