Hiking the TMB in Teva sandals

On 17 Aug 2005 20:48:17 -0700, "Dan" <[email hidden]> wrote:

| I am planning to do the TMB (Tour du Mont Blanc) in late September, and
| for weight reduction reasons I am considering leaving behind my heavy
| Vasque Sundowner boots and hiking the whole thing in Teva sandals. I
| will be carrying a fairly light load (under 8 kg) and I have strong
| ankles. I have successfully worn the Tevas on shorter backpacking
| trips, but I am unsure about what kind of trail conditions to expect on
| the TMB. I am told that it is not technically challenging, yet everyone
| who talks about this hike insists that sturdy boots are a "must"!
|
| Is snow a possibility on the TMB in late September? (I realize that
| sandals aren't too great in the snow, although I could bring a pair of
| waterproof goretex socks such as sealskinz and probably get through it
| if there wasn't too much). Is there much in the way of loose rock or
| gravel? Also, has anyone noticed whether or not any other hikers are
| wearing sandals on that route, and are they happy to be doing so?
| Thanks in advance.

Sandals in snow are IME deadly, the snow gets under the toes, Brrrrrrr, IMO
in Mountain conditions this would lead to frostbite :-(. Sandals in rain
are not too hot, continuous wet feet :-(. I waire Merrell walking sandals,
with 45degree soles, for normal use (98% of the time) and the circulation
in my feet is now so good that rain does not bother me. If you ware
shoes normally, your circulation will IMO probably not be up to keeping
your feet warm.

They stick to my feet and rock OK and I can walk in them no problems.

I would take my boots and b*gg*r the extra weight.

--
Dave Fawthrop <dave hyphenologist co uk> In Case of Emergency
Store the word "ICE" in your mobile phone address book, and
against it enter the number of the person you would want to be
contacted "In Case of Emergency". http://tinyurl.com/79lz9

Dan said:

Is snow a possibility on the TMB in late September? (I realize that
sandals aren't too great in the snow, although I could bring a pair of
waterproof goretex socks such as sealskinz and probably get through it
if there wasn't too much).

I don't know about the route, but note that cold is /not/ the main
problem with sandals on snow. They are not rigid enough to kick in
steps and/or hold edges, so there's practically no grip on anything
remotely hard and sloping. Not much fun.

And yes, I have found that out the hard way.

I'm a great advocate of walking in Tevas, but I'd take some walking
shoes at /least/ for something with a strong possibility of snow.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

On 18/8/05 08:17, in article [email hidden],

Dave Fawthrop said:

I would take my boots and b*gg*r the extra weight.

This is VERY good advice. A good pair of boots (Scarpa, Meindle) won't weigh
that much anyway. Having come back from two weeks in the high Pyrenees I'm
breaking into a sweat just imagining doing those scree slopes in Tevas!

--
Andy Howell
Birmingham, UK

To mail simply put back the dots ...

I nearly always wear Tevas when I can in the hills, but I remember
a sobering experience in April this year coming down the ridge off Middle
Fell in the Lakes. I'd been fine in Tevas on the way up; as soon as I
headed along the ridge, I caught the very strong, very cold wind, and the
wind-chill on my wet feet made them very cold, very fast. If I hadn't had
alternative footwear (in this case, approach shoes), I'd have had to give up
the walk. It snowed the next morning.

I don't know the route you're intending, nor what the weather might
be like; but if there's a possibility of seriously cold wind, with or
without snow, you'll need alternative footwear in my experience.

Mark
--
Mark Manning [email hidden]

"Dan" <[email hidden]> schreef in bericht
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Is snow a possibility on the TMB in late September?

Last week it had been snowing in the Alps >1500 meters. 40cm at some places.

--
Theo
www.theosphotos.fotopic.net

Quoted message said:

gravel? Also, has anyone noticed whether or not any other hikers are
wearing sandals on that route, and are they happy to be doing so?
Thanks in advance.

I did the TMB in July and brought sandals with me for use on base camp.

I would have not wanted to use them at all for walking in particuarly on the
West side of the tour

Quoted message said:

I did the TMB in July and brought sandals with me for use on base camp.

I would have not wanted to use them at all for walking in particuarly on the
West side of the tour

What about the West side of the TMB? Is it particularly rough and
chunky? Remember, I have a very light pack and am used to wearing
sandals in rough terrain. Also, I will have hiking poles.

theo said:

Last week it had been snowing in the Alps >1500 meters. 40cm at some places.

Snow almost down to 1500 meters in August? Well, that certainly
concerns me! The trail goes higher than that. The sandals are starting
to sound like a dumb idea.

I tried to confirm your information, but so far I haven't been able to
find anything. Have you got a link?

Dan

"Dan" <[email hidden]> schreef in bericht
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

theo said:

Last week it had been snowing in the Alps >1500 meters. 40cm at some
places.

Snow almost down to 1500 meters in August? Well, that certainly
concerns me! The trail goes higher than that. The sandals are starting
to sound like a dumb idea.

I tried to confirm your information, but so far I haven't been able to
find anything. Have you got a link?

No, I heard it on a Dutch radiobroadcast. Lots of Dutch people go with car
to the Alps for their holidays so snowfall is inevitably a newsitem. I've
also been reading an old outdoormagazine with a walkingstory mentioning snow
in September.
In the future *they* expect more snowfall in no-snow-season due to the
greenhouse effect.
I think it's not wise to take only sandals but you could have glorious
sunshine and have carried your sturdy boots all for nothing.
But that's often the case with *safety*.

--
Theo
www.theosphotos.fotopic.net

Peter Clinch said:

Dan wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Is snow a possibility on the TMB in late September? (I realize that
sandals aren't too great in the snow, although I could bring a pair of
waterproof goretex socks such as sealskinz and probably get through it
if there wasn't too much).

Quoted message said:

I don't know about the route, but note that cold is /not/ the main
problem with sandals on snow. They are not rigid enough to kick in
steps and/or hold edges, so there's practically no grip on anything
remotely hard and sloping. Not much fun.

Quoted message said:

And yes, I have found that out the hard way.

Quoted message said:

I'm a great advocate of walking in Tevas, but I'd take some walking
shoes at /least/ for something with a strong possibility of snow.

I like walking in Tevas too. The only thing I don't like about them is
that they have succumbed to the modern tendency to build cushioning
into everything. I'd be more comfortable in general walking, and feel
more secure when scrambling, if there was no cushioning.

I recall an ancient study of foot fatigue in nurses. They wanted to
know if a slightly cushioned floor surface in hospitals would reduce
foot problems and fatigue in nurses. They found to their surprise that
the cushioned floor added significantly to the number of nurses
complaining of foot fatigue. They decided that this was a combination
of two factors. The first was the slight extra inefficiency in walking
on a surface with give -- slightly more effort was required. The
second was that without cushioning the foot was bent and pushed about
a bit more in the process of walking, and that this was a kind of
massage which was good for it.

For general rough walking I prefer a hard flexible sole through which
I can feel the contours of the ground. I only start wanting protection
when things get painfully spiky, as they do in more severe scrambling
and rock climbing, and then what I want is general stiffness and
toughness, a stronger foot casing, not a cushioned one.
--
Chris Malcolm [email hidden] +44 (0)131 651 3445 DoD #205
IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
[http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

Chris Malcolm said:

I like walking in Tevas too. The only thing I don't like about them is
that they have succumbed to the modern tendency to build cushioning
into everything. I'd be more comfortable in general walking, and feel
more secure when scrambling, if there was no cushioning.

Agreed, I've just got a new pair of Sidewalks in Cotswold's sale as my
existing pairs are through the footbeds, and the new ones have a thicker
sole, for no obvious reason at all. And as a result, the new ones are
heavier, and as a result they are less comfortable.

I once got a pair of Teva's "Alp Approach" (never for sale in the UK
AFAICT) that they marketed as their top of the range Serious Hiking
Sandal. The sole was so thick and heavy that they were practically
unusable. Terra Fis at least don't seem to be getting any thicker, even
though they could be a little thinner. I use bottom of the range Tevas
for paddling because they have thinner soles that mean fitting them into
boats is easier, but the straps aren't lined and the footbed is
relatively poor so they're not as comfy for walking. Bah!

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

On Fri, 19 Aug 2005 10:39:27 +0000 (UTC), [email hidden] (Chris
Malcolm) wrote:

| For general rough walking I prefer a hard flexible sole through which
| I can feel the contours of the ground. I only start wanting protection
| when things get painfully spiky, as they do in more severe scrambling
| and rock climbing, and then what I want is general stiffness and
| toughness, a stronger foot casing, not a cushioned one.

You may change your mind in a few years.
Remember the old adage. There are two kinds of walkers,
Those who have bad knees, and those who will have bad knees :-(

--
Dave Fawthrop <dave hyphenologist co uk>
"Intelligent Design?" my knees say "not".
"Intelligent Design?" my back says "not".

Dave Fawthrop said:

You may change your mind in a few years.
Remember the old adage. There are two kinds of walkers,
Those who have bad knees, and those who will have bad knees :-(

But if you're walking on predominantly soft ground then that's a moot
point as far as shock absorption goes. And with shock out of the
equation, which is better for your knees, loping around on an over
padded, over thick sole that encourages any gait eccentricity like
over-pronation to get worse which requires more work to move, or walking
closer to the way our foot evolved to walk but with extra protection
against sharp bits?

The latter, I think, is probably better.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

On Fri, 19 Aug 2005 13:07:50 +0100, Peter Clinch <[email hidden]>
wrote:

| Dave Fawthrop wrote:
|
| > You may change your mind in a few years.
| > Remember the old adage. There are two kinds of walkers,
| > Those who have bad knees, and those who will have bad knees :-(
|
| But if you're walking on predominantly soft ground then that's a moot
| point as far as shock absorption goes. And with shock out of the
| equation, which is better for your knees, loping around on an over
| padded, over thick sole that encourages any gait eccentricity like
| over-pronation to get worse which requires more work to move, or walking
| closer to the way our foot evolved to walk but with extra protection
| against sharp bits?

If you have walked in hard boots for years, and now have bad knees it is
shock absorbing soles, or painful knees at the end of the day.

--
Dave Fawthrop <dave hyphenologist co uk>
"Intelligent Design?" my knees say "not".
"Intelligent Design?" my back says "not".

Dave Fawthrop said:

On Fri, 19 Aug 2005 13:07:50 +0100, Peter Clinch <[email hidden]>
wrote:

| Dave Fawthrop wrote:
|
| > You may change your mind in a few years.
| > Remember the old adage. There are two kinds of walkers,
| > Those who have bad knees, and those who will have bad knees :-(
|
| But if you're walking on predominantly soft ground then that's a moot
| point as far as shock absorption goes. And with shock out of the
| equation, which is better for your knees, loping around on an over
| padded, over thick sole that encourages any gait eccentricity like
| over-pronation to get worse which requires more work to move, or walking
| closer to the way our foot evolved to walk but with extra protection
| against sharp bits?

If you have walked in hard boots for years, and now have bad knees it is
shock absorbing soles, or painful knees at the end of the day.

Most walking can be done in very light trainers with a decent sole -
if you don't mind getting wet feet (you can always get goretex socks).
It's so much more comfortable - no aches and pains, no blisters. And
you can bend your ankles properly!
--
R
o
o
n
e
y

"I always knew the entire Green party were nutters" - Ken Livingstone

On Fri, 19 Aug 2005 19:10:47 +0100, Paul Rooney <[email hidden]> wrote:

| On Fri, 19 Aug 2005 17:07:35 +0100, Dave Fawthrop
| <[email hidden]> wrote:
|
| >On Fri, 19 Aug 2005 13:07:50 +0100, Peter Clinch <[email hidden]>
| >wrote:
| >
| >| Dave Fawthrop wrote:
| >|
| >| > You may change your mind in a few years.
| >| > Remember the old adage. There are two kinds of walkers,
| >| > Those who have bad knees, and those who will have bad knees :-(
| >|
| >| But if you're walking on predominantly soft ground then that's a moot
| >| point as far as shock absorption goes. And with shock out of the
| >| equation, which is better for your knees, loping around on an over
| >| padded, over thick sole that encourages any gait eccentricity like
| >| over-pronation to get worse which requires more work to move, or walking
| >| closer to the way our foot evolved to walk but with extra protection
| >| against sharp bits?
| >
| >If you have walked in hard boots for years, and now have bad knees it is
| >shock absorbing soles, or painful knees at the end of the day.
|
| Most walking can be done in very light trainers with a decent sole -
| if you don't mind getting wet feet (you can always get goretex socks).
| It's so much more comfortable - no aches and pains, no blisters. And
| you can bend your ankles properly!

I used to walk, in the tropics, in plimsols, remember those?
Did my knees a whole lot of no good :-(

--
Dave Fawthrop <dave hyphenologist co uk>
"Intelligent Design?" my knees say "not".
"Intelligent Design?" my back says "not".

On Fri, 19 Aug 2005 17:07:35 +0100
in <news:[email hidden]>
Dave Fawthrop <[email hidden]> wrote :

Quoted message said:

"Intelligent Design?" my knees say "not".

Do you have a design/prototype for an improved version?

--
Conventional wisdom holds that cynics are smarter than optimists.

On 19/8/05 12:55, in article [email hidden],

Dave Fawthrop said:

You may change your mind in a few years.
Remember the old adage. There are two kinds of walkers,
Those who have bad knees, and those who will have bad knees :-(

How true those words are :-)

--
Andy Howell
Birmingham, UK

To mail simply put back the dots ...

Dave Fawthrop said:

On Fri, 19 Aug 2005 19:10:47 +0100, Paul Rooney <[email hidden]> wrote:

| On Fri, 19 Aug 2005 17:07:35 +0100, Dave Fawthrop
| <[email hidden]> wrote:
|
| >On Fri, 19 Aug 2005 13:07:50 +0100, Peter Clinch <[email hidden]>
| >wrote:
| >
| >| Dave Fawthrop wrote:
| >|
| >| > You may change your mind in a few years.
| >| > Remember the old adage. There are two kinds of walkers,
| >| > Those who have bad knees, and those who will have bad knees :-(
| >|
| >| But if you're walking on predominantly soft ground then that's a moot
| >| point as far as shock absorption goes. And with shock out of the
| >| equation, which is better for your knees, loping around on an over
| >| padded, over thick sole that encourages any gait eccentricity like
| >| over-pronation to get worse which requires more work to move, or walking
| >| closer to the way our foot evolved to walk but with extra protection
| >| against sharp bits?
| >
| >If you have walked in hard boots for years, and now have bad knees it is
| >shock absorbing soles, or painful knees at the end of the day.
|
| Most walking can be done in very light trainers with a decent sole -
| if you don't mind getting wet feet (you can always get goretex socks).
| It's so much more comfortable - no aches and pains, no blisters. And
| you can bend your ankles properly!

I used to walk, in the tropics, in plimsols, remember those?
Did my knees a whole lot of no good :-(

I do. Pumps, we called them. No cushioning whatever! But trainers are
superb - if you get decent ones (and you don't have to pay much).

Incidentally, I just met an Adny near Shieldaig - he had walked 18+
miles over rough (or should I say **rough**) ground in wellies, and
apparently had been doing so for 30 or so years!
--
R
o
o
n
e
y

"I always knew the entire Green party were nutters" - Ken Livingstone