Hi

Quoted message said:

RicheyPen said:

Hi im new to cycling and any help would be greatly apresiated. I have a
flatbar road bike at the moment and wish to converte it to drops. is it
just the sti levers that i need?

they will slaughter your spelling . i just know it.

AIUI speling is only slaughtered when there's no content worth talking
about in the message. This message is a good opportunity for people to
be helpful.

A

Colin Blackburn said:

Quoted message said:

On Tue, 17 Aug 2004 21:18:55 +0100, "Just zis Guy, you know?"
<[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Those would be the people who have been using Usenet since before you
were born, then ;-)

those would be the [censored] who have been telling people to post test
messages in alt.test since I started using the Internet in 1994.

10 years and you still haven't learned anything!

ive learnt the internet is full of pedantic whingers.

On Wed, 18 Aug 2004 08:03:29 +0100, Jon Senior

jon_AT_restlesslemon_DOTco_DOT_uk said:

[email hidden] opined the following...

Quoted message said:

those would be the [censored] who have been telling people to post test
messages in alt.test since I started using the Internet in 1994.

Grossly unfair huh? Don't they realise that everyone really wants to see
who's tests are working?

How many genuine posts never get an answer ? A very large percentage.
Those posts might as well have been test posts. If i want to make a
test to uk.re.cycling all i have to do is post a message saying "where
should i post test messages". If you examine the position of those who
complain about innapropriate test messages closely you will quickly
see that it falls into the category of Russel Paradoxes such as the
Barber shaves everyone who doesnt shave himself (who shaves the Barber
? ).

Complaining about people posting test messages to newsgroups other
than the .test hieracrchy is the most futile of all Internet
behavioural abnormalities and those who do it deserve a name.

anyone got any suggestions ?

(Also complaining about those complainers isnt very healthy either )

sam1967 said:

anyone got any suggestions ?

Fascists! 😉

Quoted message said:

(Also complaining about those complainers isnt very healthy either )

I understand how regular usenet users feel when new users slip up, but
they could be more understanding in their responses, eg by helpfully
pointing the offenders in the direction of some web resource detailing
usenet etiquette. Or they could just shut the [censored] up and get on with
their own lives.

Access to usenet is available to anyone who subscribes to an ISP, but
how many ISPs provide their subscribers with advice on matters of usenet
etiquette? We all had to start somewhere, even those of us who have
been using the Internet since Charles Babbage built the first Google
Engine in 1863.

d.

In article <[email hidden]>, sam1967
@hetnet.nl says...

Quoted message said:

ive learnt the internet is full of pedantic whingers.

But is it really so much to ask? "Please post test messages in an
environment where they are welcome." It's not like they're asking for
the moon on a stick.

Jon

On Wed, 18 Aug 2004 17:25:49 +0100, Jon Senior

jon@restlesslemon_DOT_co_DOT_uk.remove said:

In article <[email hidden]>, sam1967
@hetnet.nl says...

Quoted message said:

ive learnt the internet is full of pedantic whingers.

But is it really so much to ask? "Please post test messages in an
environment where they are welcome." It's not like they're asking for
the moon on a stick.

How many genuine posts never get an answer ? A very large percentage.
Those posts might as well have been test posts. If i want to make a
test to uk.re.cycling all i have to do is post a message saying "where
should i post test messages". If you examine the position of those who
complain about innapropriate test messages closely you will quickly
see that it falls into the category of Russel Paradoxes such as the
Barber shaves everyone who doesnt shave himself (who shaves the Barber
? ).

Complaining about people posting test messages to newsgroups other
than the .test hieracrchy is the most futile of all Internet
behavioural abnormalities and those who do it deserve a name.

anyone got any suggestions ?

(Also complaining about those complainers isnt very healthy either )

[email hidden] opined the following...

Quoted message said:

How many genuine posts never get an answer ? A very large percentage.
Those posts might as well have been test posts. If i want to make a
test to uk.re.cycling all i have to do is post a message saying "where
should i post test messages". If you examine the position of those who
complain about innapropriate test messages closely you will quickly
see that it falls into the category of Russel Paradoxes such as the
Barber shaves everyone who doesnt shave himself (who shaves the Barber
? ).

It's good of you post a fascinating paradox, but I'd love to see the
rational that links this to the request to post test messages in a NG
set up for that purpose!

I did have a brief shot at getting Gravity to produce me a list of
unreplied to original posts, but I really can't be bothered to pursue it
further. Out of a random block of 66 posts (Sorted by date) I counted 6
unreplied to posts, 1 of which was an advert for a [censored] site. This is
_not_ a large percentage!

Quoted message said:

Complaining about people posting test messages to newsgroups other
than the .test hieracrchy is the most futile of all Internet
behavioural abnormalities and those who do it deserve a name.

If it makes one or two people aware that there is a proper place for
test posts then it is not futile.

Quoted message said:

anyone got any suggestions ?

Users!

This is in danger of becoming curious so I think I'll probably opt out
here. I have a million other things to be getting on with that don't
involve debating the finer points of etiquette (Net-based or otherwise).

Jon

"RicheyPen" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Hi im new to cycling and any help would be greatly apresiated. I have a
flatbar road bike at the moment and wish to converte it to drops. is it
just the sti levers that i need?

May I enquire why?

On Wed, 18 Aug 2004 19:49:12 +0100, Jon Senior

jon_AT_restlesslemon_DOTco_DOT_uk said:

[email hidden] opined the following...

Quoted message said:

How many genuine posts never get an answer ? A very large percentage.
Those posts might as well have been test posts. If i want to make a
test to uk.re.cycling all i have to do is post a message saying "where
should i post test messages". If you examine the position of those who
complain about innapropriate test messages closely you will quickly
see that it falls into the category of Russel Paradoxes such as the
Barber shaves everyone who doesnt shave himself (who shaves the Barber
? ).

It's good of you post a fascinating paradox, but I'd love to see the
rational that links this to the request to post test messages in a NG
set up for that purpose!

I did have a brief shot at getting Gravity to produce me a list of
unreplied to original posts, but I really can't be bothered to pursue it
further. Out of a random block of 66 posts (Sorted by date) I counted 6
unreplied to posts, 1 of which was an advert for a [censored] site. This is
_not_ a large percentage!

it is a larger percentage than the number of test posts. why dont you
complain to the people making these worthless posts for using up
bandwidth ? at least that way the thread will get a response and is no
longer worthless. the same with people posting test messages. as soon
as you follow up with a complaint you have validated their test
message and made the post worthwhile. My advice to anyone is simply to
post "Where should I post test messages for uk.rec.cycling"

[email hidden] opined the following...

Quoted message said:

it is a larger percentage than the number of test posts. why dont you
complain to the people making these worthless posts for using up
bandwidth ? at least that way the thread will get a response and is no
longer worthless. the same with people posting test messages. as soon
as you follow up with a complaint you have validated their test
message and made the post worthwhile. My advice to anyone is simply to
post "Where should I post test messages for uk.rec.cycling"

Why? Because the posters who receive no response to a query related to
cycling are unfortunate but generally likely to contribute to the NG.
The test posts do not contribute anything.

My advice to anyone who wishes to specifically test their link to
uk.rec.cycling is to post with a cycling query, or a de-lurk post
(Assuming they were lurking originally!). It's pretty easy to see if a
post has been successful, so why not put content in it? In a world of
cut-and-paste it's not hard to resend if it fails. Either of those will
result in a more welcoming reception.

In fact... having never posted a test message in my life I fail to
understand the need. I have a news server, I have a NG client. I give
the latter the details of the former and post.

Jon

On Wed, 18 Aug 2004 20:39:29 +0100, Jon Senior

jon_AT_restlesslemon_DOTco_DOT_uk said:

[email hidden] opined the following...

Quoted message said:

it is a larger percentage than the number of test posts. why dont you
complain to the people making these worthless posts for using up
bandwidth ? at least that way the thread will get a response and is no
longer worthless. the same with people posting test messages. as soon
as you follow up with a complaint you have validated their test
message and made the post worthwhile. My advice to anyone is simply to
post "Where should I post test messages for uk.rec.cycling"

Why? Because the posters who receive no response to a query related to
cycling are unfortunate but generally likely to contribute to the NG.
The test posts do not contribute anything.

My advice to anyone who wishes to specifically test their link to
uk.rec.cycling is to post with a cycling query, or a de-lurk post
(Assuming they were lurking originally!). It's pretty easy to see if a
post has been successful, so why not put content in it? In a world of
cut-and-paste it's not hard to resend if it fails. Either of those will
result in a more welcoming reception.

In fact... having never posted a test message in my life I fail to
understand the need. I have a news server, I have a NG client. I give
the latter the details of the former and post.

I used the Tiscali news server for a while and they used to censor my
posts (they blocked any posts containing financial terms in an
anti-spam effort ). it drove me nuts until i found the german server i
now use. i used to post test messages all the time because the service
from Tiscali was so sporadic and unpredictable that I was reduced to
doing so (different newsgroups behaved differently ) . Needless to say
when anyone had a go I just thought ... well you can imagine.
Different Newsgroups can also get clogged on different servers which
means a succesful post to alt.test *does not guarantee* a succesful
post to uk.rec.cycling.

People should just post "hello" rather than "test" if only to deflect
attention from the pedantic whingers.

in message <[email hidden]>,

(') said:

Complaining about people posting test messages to newsgroups other
than the .test hieracrchy is the most futile of all Internet
behavioural abnormalities and those who do it deserve a name.

Lusers are, after all, from Uranus, and no amount of hitting them with a
cluestick is going to make any difference. The only real solution is a
machine gun.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

'Victories are not solutions.'
;; John Hume, Northern Irish politician, on Radio Scotland 1/2/95
;; Nobel Peace Prize laureate 1998; few have deserved it so much

[email hidden] opined the following...

Quoted message said:

I used the Tiscali news server for a while and they used to censor my
posts (they blocked any posts containing financial terms in an
anti-spam effort ). it drove me nuts until i found the german server i
now use. i used to post test messages all the time because the service
from Tiscali was so sporadic and unpredictable that I was reduced to
doing so (different newsgroups behaved differently ) . Needless to say
when anyone had a go I just thought ... well you can imagine.
Different Newsgroups can also get clogged on different servers which
means a succesful post to alt.test *does not guarantee* a succesful
post to uk.rec.cycling.

Thankfully I've had no course to use Tiscali yet (And hope to remain
that way!). But I have used news servers from:

Sheffield Uni
Freeserve
FreeUK
ClaraNet

and not yet had a post failure. I can see that a sporadic server might
cause problems, but the solution does not involve "Test", "Test2", Test
3" etc.

Quoted message said:

People should just post "hello" rather than "test" if only to deflect
attention from the pedantic whingers.

Not to deflect attention so much as to observe etiquette. From the point
of view of an individual a single test post is harmless but when you see
them regularly (And some groups I've used in the past did) they can
really detract from the group. It boils down to having a sense of what
is courteous.

Jon

In message <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] writes

Quoted message said:

On Wed, 18 Aug 2004 19:49:12 +0100, Jon Senior

jon_AT_restlesslemon_DOTco_DOT_uk said:

[email hidden] opined the following...

Quoted message said:

How many genuine posts never get an answer ? A very large percentage.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It's good of you post a fascinating paradox, but I'd love to see the
rational that links this to the request to post test messages in a NG
set up for that purpose!

I did have a brief shot at getting Gravity to produce me a list of
unreplied to original posts, but I really can't be bothered to pursue it
further. Out of a random block of 66 posts (Sorted by date) I counted 6
unreplied to posts, 1 of which was an advert for a [censored] site. This is
_not_ a large percentage!

it is a larger percentage than the number of test posts.

Quite possibly, though in urc, I don't see that your initial claim holds
water. A quick scan through the current list of threads here shows a few
(as in 5-6) threads with no replies to the original post, and most of
those seem to ads. Very few thread starting posts get no reply AFAICS

Quoted message said:

why dont you
complain to the people making these worthless posts for using up
bandwidth ?

Just because a post doesn't get a reply doesn't mean it was worthless,
equally, getting a reply doesn't mean it had any owrth........
--
Chris French, Leeds