Hey Coach!

Where the hand enters the water has to do with both arm length, and
preference. Try to visualize the following: Imagine and arm without a
forearm. As the shoulder turns around in circles, the arm also goes
around in circles. Add the forearm to the arm and make it hang loose.
When the arm is at the bottom, the formarm will be right below with at
180 degree angle to the elbow. As the arm circles back and then up, the
loose hanging forarm will begin to create an angle which will close as
the arm gets to the top. Imagine a very long arm. The forearm will hang
higher above the water than with a shorter arm. As the arm continues to
rotate down, the angle with the elbow will start to increase, and the
forearm will begin to approach the water. At some point it will enter.
If the arm hangs competely relaxed it it will enter closer to the head
than, if the elbow is tightened up. Ideally, you want to swim with the
arm and forearm relaxed during the recovery. Therefore, the hand will
enter the water near the head. Some pro swimmers have very long arms,
so the hand enters the water later in the stroke. Some swimmers tighten
the elbow making the arm enter later in the stroke. there is a swimmer
called Jannet Evans who locks the elbow at a 180 degree angle. She
swims with her forearm completely extended, never bending the elbow.
Her hand enters the water at the farthest possible point from the head.
Her stroke is referred to as the windmill stroke. It is a very orthodox
stroke that works very well for her. She was a world champion and
olympic champion several times.

Ultimately there is an ideal model, and there are various
ideosyncrasies. The ideal model is to relax your arm completely during
the recovery. It is called recovery because your recovering arm should
not be doing any effort, saving itself for when it goes under water.
Based on this, your forearm will hang loose and enter the water closest
to the head. As you develop your stroke, you'll develop you own style.

does this make sense?

Andres

Where the hand enters the water has to do with both arm length, and
preference. Try to visualize the following: Imagine and arm without a
forearm. As the shoulder turns around in circles, the arm also goes
around in circles. Add the forearm to the arm and make it hang loose.
When the arm is at the bottom, the formarm will be right below with at
180 degree angle to the elbow. As the arm circles back and then up, the
loose hanging forarm will begin to create an angle which will close as
the arm gets to the top. Imagine a very long arm. The forearm will hang
higher above the water than with a shorter arm. As the arm continues to
rotate down, the angle with the elbow will start to increase, and the
forearm will begin to approach the water. At some point it will enter.
If the arm hangs competely relaxed it it will enter closer to the head
than, if the elbow is tightened up. Ideally, you want to swim with the
arm and forearm relaxed during the recovery. Therefore, the hand will
enter the water near the head. Some pro swimmers have very long arms,
so the hand enters the water later in the stroke. Some swimmers tighten
the elbow making the arm enter later in the stroke. there is a swimmer
called Jannet Evans who locks the elbow at a 180 degree angle. She
swims with her forearm completely extended, never bending the elbow.
Her hand enters the water at the farthest possible point from the head.
Her stroke is referred to as the windmill stroke. It is a very orthodox
stroke that works very well for her. She was a world champion and
olympic champion several times.

Ultimately there is an ideal model, and there are various
ideosyncrasies. The ideal model is to relax your arm completely during
the recovery. It is called recovery because your recovering arm should
not be doing any effort, saving itself for when it goes under water.
Based on this, your forearm will hang loose and enter the water closest
to the head. As you develop your stroke, you'll develop you own style.

does this make sense?

Andres

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

called Jannet Evans who locks the elbow at a 180 degree angle. She
swims with her forearm completely extended, never bending the elbow.
Her hand enters the water at the farthest possible point from the head.
Her stroke is referred to as the windmill stroke. It is a very orthodox

Unorthodox

Quoted message said:

stroke that works very well for her. She was a world champion and
olympic champion several times.

Ultimately there is an ideal model,

No.

There are too many factors involved in swimming speed, and the variance
between people is too great, for such a statement to be supportable.

jtaylor said:

Quoted message said:

Her stroke is referred to as the windmill stroke. It is a very orthodox

Unorthodox

Ohhps: I was responding at 2:00 am. I was kind of spaced out.

"jtaylor" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]!nnrp1.uunet.ca...

Quoted message said:

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

called Jannet Evans who locks the elbow at a 180 degree angle. She
swims with her forearm completely extended, never bending the elbow.
Her hand enters the water at the farthest possible point from the head.
Her stroke is referred to as the windmill stroke. It is a very orthodox

Unorthodox

Not as unorthodox as many believe. This straight-arm freestyle has found a
revival recently, especially as it relates to sprint freestyle. Initially, I
wasn't too impressed with the notion, but decided to experiment with it
anyway, mostly after seeing Natalie Coughlin wax the field with it at a
Grand Prix meet.

I've generally found that it works very well for sprinters who already have
a short entry on their stroke...it prevents that hand diving down to the
catch and gives a (seemingly) important few inches on the front end.
Previous attempts to extend this entry point resulted in a bit of an elbow
drop when they were coming off a regular bent arm recovery.

I also found it gives the hand more speed as it decends into a catch. Rather
than bringing the arm through, reaching extension, dropping the hand into
the catch, it 'rounds off' this phase without that hand sitting in front at
extension.

There are a few qualifiers to the validity of this approach i've found
however: Firstly, the swimmer needs to have a natural pre-disposition for
solid core rotation, or have excellent flexibility. As such, i've had more
success with girls than guys...girls who are combo freestyle-flyers pick it
up quickly and successfully.

Also, and quite possibly this is because i've only been working on it with
them for a short while, they can't hold it together when racing long
course...short course they're great with it. Training this recovery slowly
and deliberately in warm ups and easy swimming sets proved to be the best
way to fix the pattern, predictably. Some swimmers are able to turn the
technique on and off at will, while others it transferred intot heir regular
strokes to extend their entry without maintaining the admittedly ugly
straight arm recovery.

There was some article i read on straight arm about 2 years ago, maybe from
swimming world?...but i don't have it..perhaps if any of you have membership
to the site you can search their archives for it.

Steve

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

stroke that works very well for her. She was a world champion and
olympic champion several times.

Ultimately there is an ideal model,

No.

There are too many factors involved in swimming speed, and the variance
between people is too great, for such a statement to be supportable.

"jtaylor" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]!nnrp1.uunet.ca...

Quoted message said:

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

called Jannet Evans who locks the elbow at a 180 degree angle. She
swims with her forearm completely extended, never bending the elbow.
Her hand enters the water at the farthest possible point from the head.
Her stroke is referred to as the windmill stroke. It is a very orthodox

Unorthodox

Not as unorthodox as many believe. This straight-arm freestyle has found a
revival recently, especially as it relates to sprint freestyle. Initially, I
wasn't too impressed with the notion, but decided to experiment with it
anyway, mostly after seeing Natalie Coughlin wax the field with it at a
Grand Prix meet.

I've generally found that it works very well for sprinters who already have
a short entry on their stroke...it prevents that hand diving down to the
catch and gives a (seemingly) important few inches on the front end.
Previous attempts to extend this entry point resulted in a bit of an elbow
drop when they were coming off a regular bent arm recovery.

I also found it gives the hand more speed as it decends into a catch. Rather
than bringing the arm through, reaching extension, dropping the hand into
the catch, it 'rounds off' this phase without that hand sitting in front at
extension.

There are a few qualifiers to the validity of this approach i've found
however: Firstly, the swimmer needs to have a natural pre-disposition for
solid core rotation, or have excellent flexibility. As such, i've had more
success with girls than guys...girls who are combo freestyle-flyers pick it
up quickly and successfully.

Also, and quite possibly this is because i've only been working on it with
them for a short while, they can't hold it together when racing long
course...short course they're great with it. Training this recovery slowly
and deliberately in warm ups and easy swimming sets proved to be the best
way to fix the pattern, predictably. Some swimmers are able to turn the
technique on and off at will, while others it transferred intot heir regular
strokes to extend their entry without maintaining the admittedly ugly
straight arm recovery.

There was some article i read on straight arm about 2 years ago, maybe from
swimming world?...but i don't have it..perhaps if any of you have membership
to the site you can search their archives for it.

Steve

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

stroke that works very well for her. She was a world champion and
olympic champion several times.

Ultimately there is an ideal model,

No.

There are too many factors involved in swimming speed, and the variance
between people is too great, for such a statement to be supportable.

The article you refer to made reference especiallly to Michael Klim.

The reason why the straight-arm recovery was taught was the belief that
it would help keep cadence up during sprinting. In general, as
swimmers try to increase speed of their kicking rhythm, their arms tend
to slow down. But with straight-arm recovery, that's less of an issue
- as the swimmer kicks faster, their arms keep tempo just fine. Or so
goes the theory.

Eric

The article you refer to made reference especiallly to Michael Klim.

The reason why the straight-arm recovery was taught was the belief that
it would help keep cadence up during sprinting. In general, as
swimmers try to increase speed of their kicking rhythm, their arms tend
to slow down. But with straight-arm recovery, that's less of an issue
- as the swimmer kicks faster, their arms keep tempo just fine. Or so
goes the theory.

Eric

Andres..... It's funny that you mentioned Jannet Evans because she was one
of the clips I was looking at and I liked the look of her stroke but noticed
that she entered the water way out in front..... so you clarified that for
me. I do understand what you are saying about relaxing the elbow and
allowing the hand to enter pretty much where it wants to. Your
explainations were very good and I appreciate you taking time. I think you
would be, or are, a very good teacher.
-Thanks