heres a stupid question

scody said:

I've been running about 35% of the time now for about 4
years... and it finally ocurred to me... When training...
speed relates directly to heart rate.

primarily only if on flat, even ground like many road races
(not hills, trails, snow)

Quoted message said:

I guess the final question is... Even if I am shooting for
a specific pace, my heart rate will tell me how much my
body is ready to do at any one time... which implies that
training for pace is silly.

uh.... right?

yep! unless you're doing a guess-the-pace race.

Actually, hr and/or breathing is probably more related to
effort than to pace if you consider hills, etc. Also, if you
look in many books about training, the body responds
primarily to time and effort (rarely distance and pace).

Dot

--
"Success is different things to different people" -Bernd
Heinrich in Racing the Antelope

If you jog 35% of the time, that works out to over 8 hours a
day. Either you're lying, or you're crazy.......and lying.

scody wrote in message ...

Quoted message said:

I've been running about 35% of the time now for about 4
years... and it finally ocurred to me... When training...
speed relates directly to heart rate.

I guess the final question is... Even if I am shooting for
a specific pace, my heart rate will tell me how much my
body is ready to do at any one time... which implies that
training for pace is silly.

uh.... right?

It depends on the distance of race you're training for, and
if you will race on relatively flat roads or hilly roads or
trails. If you want to run fast in road races you probably
want to learn both pace and HR response to those paces,
mostly for training your lactate threshold HR (LTHR). For
most training I use HR to make sure the effort is aerobic.
For speedwork and racing, I would want to know my current
lactate threshold HR and what paces I can run around that in
order to train the the lacate system. Thus in shorter races
(10k and under), you will want to know the pace you can
sustain for the race and measure your performance each mile.

For trail races and ultramarathons (and probably marathons
for most people), using HR as a gague of effort makes much
more sense. You can learn what HR you can hold for x number
of hours, both in training and in racing. For me this looks
like this:

resting HR 42, maxHR 190, LTHR 175

5k ~20 mins HR 180 (15%? anaerobic) 10k ~42 mins HR 178
(some anaerobic) orienteering 90 mins HR 173 (over one
hour, <LTHR) 50k trail ~6+ hours HR 158 (substantially less
than LTHR)

For Shorter races on flat roads its better to use pace
because HR is harder to read for effort. On longer efforts
watching HR becomes critical.

For training I keep aerobic as much as possible (HR 135-
150), and for speedwork I try to train just above my current
LTHR. For example my LTHR right now is about 168, and closer
to 175 when im peaking. The other day I did two 10 mins
intervals of HR 172 (felt like 10 race pace) and HR 176
(felt like 5k race pace), with 5 min rest in between. If I
were going to race at 5k or 10k then I would measure my pace
during these intervals to start to set a specific time goal
for the race. But my goal is a trail race so I don't care
what the pace is, only the effort, and traing the lactate
system will improve my speed at any distance because it will
help prevent acid damage to the muscles.

- Tony

lol... or meaning on and off... about 35% of the time I was
a 4 day a week runner
🙂

"Miss Anne Thrope" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

If you jog 35% of the time, that works out to over 8
hours a day. Either you're lying, or you're
crazy.......and lying.

There's no such thing as a stupid question.

Heart rate correlates to exertion, temperature/humidity,
emotional stress, and of course the proximity of pretty
girls (or boys, if you're gay). For a given temperature,
humidity, stress level, and proximity, I think you can
fairly say that heart rate correlates with exertion.

Exertion correlates to speed, elevation-change, and if
you're lucky, extreme proximity of a willing girl (or boy).

In article WgsCc.5870$Lh.1151@okepread01 said:

I guess the final question is... Even if I am shooting for
a specific pace, my heart rate will tell me how much my
body is ready to do at any one time... which implies that
training for pace is silly.

That's what intervals are for. If you run short enough
repititions you can keep your heart rate within training
bounds while still going fast enough to develop the running
form required for your target pace.

IMHO. YMMV.
--
Ron Nicholson rhn AT nicholson DOT com
nicholson.comrhnOpen ↗ #include
<canonical.disclaimer> // only my own opinions, etc.

Training for pace is not silly. HR is a dependant variable
and subject to a lot of external factors (heat, dehydration---
which I guess is really internal---stress, fatigue, etc).

I prefer to train by pace as much as I can and also by
perceived exertion which is a solid way to set intensity and
highly valid for an individual.

Heart rate can be useful, if used properly.

"scody" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:WgsCc.5870$Lh.1151@okepread01...

Quoted message said:

I've been running about 35% of the time now for about 4
years... and it finally ocurred to me... When training...
speed relates directly to heart rate.

I guess the final question is... Even if I am shooting for
a specific

pace,

Quoted message said:

my heart rate will tell me how much my body is ready to
do at any one time... which implies that training for
pace is silly.

uh.... right?

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Quoted message said:

If you jog 35% of the time, that works out to over 8
hours a day. Either you're lying, or you're
crazy.......and lying.

I think he meant 35% of the days, probably 2 to 3
times a week.

- --
John Mayson <[email hidden]> Austin, Texas, USA

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