Here we go again

Martin Dann said:

e.g.

Let's hope the 90 degree manouvre wasn't in front of this guy;

--

Martin Bulmer

"Martin Dann" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

MrBitsy said:

Anyone else just watched 'Inside Out' on the BBC? (Wednesday 3 Sep 19:30)

The story highlighted the problem of cyclists being knocked over when
lorries turn left. The problem was the way the programme focussed solely
on the lorry driver not seeing the cyclist - absolutely nothing at all on
how cyclists can ride defensivly.

I try to ride defensively, but often find a car lorry pulls up beside me
at traffic lights with that vehicle indicating left, what am I supposed to
do in that situation?

e.g.

Quoted message said:

I completely agree that lorries should be fitted with mirrors to minimise
blindspots, but the cyclist can spot the lorry easily - why no mention of
some simple steps for cyclists to take? I also agree the lorry driver
should always act responsibly, checking all blind spot regularly to
minimise danger.

I agree that steps should be taken to educate cyclists. Have you seen the
TfL sponsored stickers on many lorries warning cyclists not to undertake?

Quoted message said:

The lorry driver has a huge vehicle to move around on busy streets. Even
with a full compliment of mirrors, a poor driver may make a mistake and
miss a cyclist. For that reason, the programme should have made some
simple recommendations for the cyclists.

Many streets in this country are unsuitable for HGVs. I have seen them
being driven through busy shopping centers in the middle of the afternoon.

Quoted message said:

When it is so easy for a cyclist to spot a huge lorry, why do they put
themselves alongside lorries at junctions? Why not wait behind the lorry
like I would in my car?

Why don't cars and lorries wait behind me when approaching junctions and
especially red traffic lights?
Instead as I am freewheeling up to a junction I here an engine rev up, see
the driver swerve around and in front of me, and skid to a halt. I see
this nearly every day.

Something I learnt when riding a small motocycle (where the temptation is to
"keep out of the way" by tucking into the gutter is don't!

If you can't get completely out of the way of larger, faster vehicles then
you adopt a position on the road which prevents them blocking you and
causing you grief through thei lack of observation and/or selfishness.
Strange as it may seem, this was reinforced during coach driving lessons.

In article <[email hidden]>, Martin Dann says...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

And I wonder why that is. Oh yeah...customers demand that the things
they want to buy are on the shelves when they go there. And then you've
locals who campaign to get late night/early morning HGV deliveries
stopped so the lorries have to deliver through the working day.

So why the need to send a 44 ton articulated lorry into the middle of a
busy city centre just to deliver one pallet of lettuce or bread?

Because they don't just have one pallet on. Look up the definition of
"multidrop".

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

You'll find most lorries will hang back for a cyclist.

TBH I find the majority of lorry[1] drivers to be good drivers, far
better than the average car driver.

--
Conor

I'm not prejudiced. I hate everyone equally.

In article <[email hidden]>, OG says...

Quoted message said:

"Adrian" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Martin Dann ([email hidden]) gurgled happily, sounding much like
they were saying :

Quoted message said:

> You've seen the indicators as you've just admitted so why not hang
> back a few seconds until they've turned?

Quoted message said:

Because the second truck was already beside me, not in front. If I had
waited it could have cut across anyway.

Ummm, yes, exactly. In front of you. Harmlessly, but inconveniently.

No, when he uses the phrase 'cut across', it means the lorry moves into the
space already occupied by the cyclist.

Hardly. The last thing a lorry would do when turning left, is move to
the left before the actual road he's turning into. Something to do with
geometry.

--
Conor

I'm not prejudiced. I hate everyone equally.

In article <[email hidden]>, Clive George says...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

You'll find most lorries will hang back for a cyclist.

Indeed. Depressingly often however the relevant word missing in this
discussion is "Tipper drivers" - I know your feelings on the subject.

lol.

--
Conor

I'm not prejudiced. I hate everyone equally.

In article <[email hidden]>, John says...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

And I wonder why that is. Oh yeah...customers demand that the things
they want to buy are on the shelves when they go there. And then you've
locals who campaign to get late night/early morning HGV deliveries
stopped so the lorries have to deliver through the working day.

And some lorry drivers are looking for a filling station so that they can
ask for directions as they haven't a clue where they are going..

And the problem with that being?

--
Conor

I'm not prejudiced. I hate everyone equally.

OG ([email hidden]) gurgled happily, sounding much like they
were saying :

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> You've seen the indicators as you've just admitted so why not hang
> back a few seconds until they've turned?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Because the second truck was already beside me, not in front. If I
had waited it could have cut across anyway.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Ummm, yes, exactly. In front of you. Harmlessly, but inconveniently.

Quoted message said:

No, when he uses the phrase 'cut across', it means the lorry moves
into the space already occupied by the cyclist.

Except it won't if he doesn't move forwards.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

In other words, if you can show that you were using the pavement out
of a fear of traffic, and were showing consideration to other pavement
users - you should not be issued with a FPN.

A colleague was threatened with a FPN whilst using a pavement to avoid
a busy A-road with traffic doing 60 mph. The pavement in question is
rarely used by pedestrians.

Home office guidance is merely guidance unless it is written into the
relevant legislation. The police can and will simply ignore it.

What would higher courts do with an appeal? Would they uphold a FPN
issued to a cyclist who could show that they were using the pavement
out of a fear of using the road and that they were showing
consideration to other pavement users?

I suspect not.

Martin Dann said:

MrBitsy said:

Anyone else just watched 'Inside Out' on the BBC? (Wednesday 3 Sep 19:30)

Quoted message said:

The story highlighted the problem of cyclists being knocked over when
lorries turn left. The problem was the way the programme focussed solely on
the lorry driver not seeing the cyclist - absolutely nothing at all on how
cyclists can ride defensivly.

I try to ride defensively, but often find a car lorry pulls up beside me
at traffic lights with that vehicle indicating left, what am I supposed
to do in that situation?

e.g.

Quoted message said:

I completely agree that lorries should be fitted with mirrors to minimise
blindspots, but the cyclist can spot the lorry easily - why no mention of
some simple steps for cyclists to take? I also agree the lorry driver should
always act responsibly, checking all blind spot regularly to minimise
danger.

I agree that steps should be taken to educate cyclists. Have you seen
the TfL sponsored stickers on many lorries warning cyclists not to
undertake?

Quoted message said:

The lorry driver has a huge vehicle to move around on busy streets. Even
with a full compliment of mirrors, a poor driver may make a mistake and miss
a cyclist. For that reason, the programme should have made some simple
recommendations for the cyclists.

Many streets in this country are unsuitable for HGVs. I have seen them
being driven through busy shopping centers in the middle of the afternoon.

Quoted message said:

When it is so easy for a cyclist to spot a huge lorry, why do they put
themselves alongside lorries at junctions? Why not wait behind the lorry
like I would in my car?

Why don't cars and lorries wait behind me when approaching junctions and
especially red traffic lights?
Instead as I am freewheeling up to a junction I here an engine rev up,
see the driver swerve around and in front of me, and skid to a halt. I
see this nearly every day.

Perhaps it's to make sure you don't go through a red light like most
of you [censored] do?

In message <[email hidden]>

Martin Dann said:

TBH I find the majority of lorry[1] drivers to be good drivers, far
better than the average car driver.

Quoted message said:

[1] I mean HGVs, not vans or small trucks.

Is it not these van and small trucks that need the extara mirror(s)?

And don't we need basic training/training for all cyclists and light
goods vehicle drivers?

--
Charles
Brompton P6R-Plus; CarryFreedom -YL, in Motspur Park
LCC; CTC.

Martin Dann said:

Paul - censored said:

Martin Dann said:

I try to ride defensively, but often find a car lorry pulls up beside
me at traffic lights with that vehicle indicating left, what am I
supposed to do in that situation?

e.g.

Neither lorry was indicating left at all, from what I could see.

The second lorry started to indicate left as I was pulling up beside the
cab. I can't recall when the first lorry started indicating left, but it
did, and turn left at the roundabout.

Quoted message said:

Dunno if that's you, but you cut across the front of the second lorry,

Quoted message said:

Which was stationary.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

pulling out 90 degrees, apparently blindly, into the next lane, then

Quoted message said:

I looked, but it was still a bit Darwinian.

I assumed that there were no cars approaching behind you at that
point, because none overtook you for the remainder of the film.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

cutting back between cars just as they're moving off> Seems to me to
be simply asking for trouble and yet more statistics, IMHO.

Quoted message said:

And made eye contact with the car drivers before pulling back in.

Quoted message said:

I agree it was not the best of maneuvers, but in the circumstances
better that being on the left of the trucks.

All of that appears true. You at least understood the danger of
pulling up on the nearside of the lorry at the lights.

MrBitsy said:

Anyone else just watched 'Inside Out' on the BBC? (Wednesday 3 Sep 19:30)

The story highlighted the problem of cyclists being knocked over when
lorries turn left. The problem was the way the programme focussed solely on
the lorry driver not seeing the cyclist - absolutely nothing at all on how
cyclists can ride defensivly.

I completely agree that lorries should be fitted with mirrors to minimise
blindspots, but the cyclist can spot the lorry easily - why no mention of
some simple steps for cyclists to take? I also agree the lorry driver should
always act responsibly, checking all blind spot regularly to minimise
danger.

The lorry driver has a huge vehicle to move around on busy streets. Even
with a full compliment of mirrors, a poor driver may make a mistake and miss
a cyclist. For that reason, the programme should have made some simple
recommendations for the cyclists.

When it is so easy for a cyclist to spot a huge lorry, why do they put
themselves alongside lorries at junctions? Why not wait behind the lorry
like I would in my car?

I didn't see the programme, but it seems to me that cyclists are quite
often somewhat lacking in defensive riding skills, and they just expect
everybody else to accommodate them.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

Conor said:

You'll find most lorries will hang back for a cyclist.

Is that so you can get a better aim? ;-)

Conor said:

In article <[email hidden]>, John says...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

And some lorry drivers are looking for a filling station so that they can
ask for directions as they haven't a clue where they are going..

And the problem with that being?

Lorry Drivers should know where they're going. Also, with satnavs now
below 100 quid, there's no need to stop to ask directions.

In news:[email hidden],
Pete Biggs <[email hidden]> tweaked the
Babbage-Engine to tell us:

Quoted message said:

BTW, how about sticking something fluffy over the microphone to
reduce wind noise?

(Insert Paris Hilton joke here)

--
Dave Larrington
<http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk>
Do not top-post like a Cretinous Foul-Yob fit only for Stoning.

In news:[email hidden],
Silk <[email hidden]> tweaked the Babbage-Engine to tell us:

Quoted message said:

Conor said:

In article <[email hidden]>, John says...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

And some lorry drivers are looking for a filling station so that
they can ask for directions as they haven't a clue where they are
going..

And the problem with that being?

Lorry Drivers should know where they're going. Also, with satnavs now
below 100 quid, there's no need to stop to ask directions.

But instead they need to stop and attempt to extricate themselves from
impossibly tight situations because, in spite of the signs prohibiting
vehicles of over 7.5T, they have blindly followed the sat-nav instead of
paying attention to the road?

--
Dave Larrington
<http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk>
Better hide the pork scratchings...

"Martin Dann" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

MrBitsy said:

Anyone else just watched 'Inside Out' on the BBC? (Wednesday 3 Sep 19:30)

The story highlighted the problem of cyclists being knocked over when
lorries turn left. The problem was the way the programme focussed solely on
the lorry driver not seeing the cyclist - absolutely nothing at all on how
cyclists can ride defensivly.

I try to ride defensively, but often find a car lorry pulls up beside me at
traffic lights with that vehicle indicating left, what am I supposed to do
in that situation?

e.g.

Quoted message said:

I completely agree that lorries should be fitted with mirrors to minimise
blindspots, but the cyclist can spot the lorry easily - why no mention of
some simple steps for cyclists to take? I also agree the lorry driver
should always act responsibly, checking all blind spot regularly to
minimise danger.

I agree that steps should be taken to educate cyclists. Have you seen the
TfL sponsored stickers on many lorries warning cyclists not to undertake?

Quoted message said:

The lorry driver has a huge vehicle to move around on busy streets. Even
with a full compliment of mirrors, a poor driver may make a mistake and
miss a cyclist. For that reason, the programme should have made some simple
recommendations for the cyclists.

Many streets in this country are unsuitable for HGVs. I have seen them being
driven through busy shopping centers in the middle of the afternoon.

Quoted message said:

When it is so easy for a cyclist to spot a huge lorry, why do they put
themselves alongside lorries at junctions? Why not wait behind the lorry
like I would in my car?

Why don't cars and lorries wait behind me when approaching junctions and
especially red traffic lights?
Instead as I am freewheeling up to a junction I here an engine rev up, see
the driver swerve around and in front of me, and skid to a halt. I see this
nearly every day.

It seems to me that the real problem is your own positioning on road.

In traffic and approaching traffic lights I am very firmly in the middle of my
lane and nowhere near the gutter

--
Trevor A Panther
In South Yorkshire,
England, United Kingdom.
www.tapan.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk

Silk said:

Conor said:

In article <[email hidden]>, John says...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

And some lorry drivers are looking for a filling station so that they can
ask for directions as they haven't a clue where they are going..

And the problem with that being?

Lorry Drivers should know where they're going. Also, with satnavs now
below 100 quid, there's no need to stop to ask directions.

Three times now the sat nav has tried to send me up country lanes, the
first time I fell for it, the address by postcode is mostly accurate but
on a couple of occasions was way out though that may be the postcode
peoples fault.

I think not only lorry drivers shoud know where they are going, anyone
on a new journey should.

Silk said:

Conor said:

You'll find most lorries will hang back for a cyclist.

Is that so you can get a better aim? ;-)

On the A30 dual there was a cyclist doing all of 10 mph in the centre of
the n/s lane rest of the traffic min 56mph trucks, up to 90 repmobiles,
death wish IMO.

In news:[email hidden],
NM <[email hidden]> tweaked the Babbage-Engine to tell us:

Quoted message said:

Silk said:

Conor said:

You'll find most lorries will hang back for a cyclist.

Is that so you can get a better aim? ;-)

On the A30 dual there was a cyclist doing all of 10 mph in the centre
of the n/s lane rest of the traffic min 56mph trucks, up to 90
repmobiles, death wish IMO.

Would those be the 56 mph trucks which are forbidden by law from exceeding
50 mph on an A road? And the repmobiles likewsie forbidden by law from
exceeding 70?

--
Dave Larrington
<http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk>
Tip of the Day: 20%