Heras disappears on schedule.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Uh, no. San Luis Obispo is the dividing line. We'd never cede the

garden

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

spots of Pozo & Creston to Southern California.

I'd have to vote against this because if you'll go that far south
you'll have to start considering Bakersfield too and no one wants to go
down that road-not even the people in Fresno.

Who said anything about drawing a line straight across the state? We'll
take in the coastal range up to, say, Lodi... aw heck, why even include the
central valley at all? Give Sacramento to LA as well. Just run all the way
up the coast to, say, Red Bluff... then cut across to the Sierras, and head
back down south as far as Lone Pine. Everything on the edges and extreme
north is ours; they get the the south and the valley.

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
IMBA, BikesBelong, NBDA member

In article <[email hidden]>,
"Mike Jacoubowsky/Chain Reaction Bicycles" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Uh, no. San Luis Obispo is the dividing line. We'd never cede the

garden

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

spots of Pozo & Creston to Southern California.

I'd have to vote against this because if you'll go that far south
you'll have to start considering Bakersfield too and no one wants to go
down that road-not even the people in Fresno.

Who said anything about drawing a line straight across the state? We'll
take in the coastal range up to, say, Lodi... aw heck, why even include the
central valley at all? Give Sacramento to LA as well. Just run all the way
up the coast to, say, Red Bluff... then cut across to the Sierras, and head
back down south as far as Lone Pine. Everything on the edges and extreme
north is ours; they get the the south and the valley.

Easy there , Mike - Warren's up by Sac. Those could be fightin' words...

--
tanx,
Howard

So far, so good, so what?

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

Howard Kveck said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
"Mike Jacoubowsky/Chain Reaction Bicycles" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>Uh, no. San Luis Obispo is the dividing line. We'd never cede the

garden

Quoted message said:

>spots of Pozo & Creston to Southern California.

I'd have to vote against this because if you'll go that far south
you'll have to start considering Bakersfield too and no one wants to go
down that road-not even the people in Fresno.

Who said anything about drawing a line straight across the state? We'll
take in the coastal range up to, say, Lodi... aw heck, why even include the
central valley at all? Give Sacramento to LA as well. Just run all the way
up the coast to, say, Red Bluff... then cut across to the Sierras, and head
back down south as far as Lone Pine. Everything on the edges and extreme
north is ours; they get the the south and the valley.

Easy there , Mike - Warren's up by Sac. Those could be fightin' words...

Yeah, but even Warren has to recognize that Sacto has become a suburb of
Hollywood. What right thinking person wants THAT in their neighborhood.
Makes all the drug cheats in cycling look like Romper Room.

In article <[email hidden]>, Richard Adams

Quoted message said:

Howard Kveck said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
"Mike Jacoubowsky/Chain Reaction Bicycles" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

>>Uh, no. San Luis Obispo is the dividing line. We'd never cede the

garden

>>spots of Pozo & Creston to Southern California.
>
>I'd have to vote against this because if you'll go that far south
>you'll have to start considering Bakersfield too and no one wants to go
>down that road-not even the people in Fresno.

Who said anything about drawing a line straight across the state? We'll
take in the coastal range up to, say, Lodi... aw heck, why even include the
central valley at all? Give Sacramento to LA as well. Just run all the way
up the coast to, say, Red Bluff... then cut across to the Sierras, and head
back down south as far as Lone Pine. Everything on the edges and extreme
north is ours; they get the the south and the valley.

Easy there , Mike - Warren's up by Sac. Those could be fightin' words...

Nah, Mike has obviously lost his way. I'd much rather live east of the
valley than west of it like he does.

Quoted message said:

Yeah, but even Warren has to recognize that Sacto has become a suburb of
Hollywood. What right thinking person wants THAT in their neighborhood.
Makes all the drug cheats in cycling look like Romper Room.

I have no idea what you are talking about. Sac is nothing like
Hollywood, unless you're referring to something related to the state
capitol, which by the way is a very picturesque area of downtown.
There's good reason why Sac is sometimes referred to as the "City of
Trees". I live 20 miles east of Sac on the edge of the foothills-better
surroundings and better training.

-WG

"warren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Richard Adams

Quoted message said:

Howard Kveck said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
"Mike Jacoubowsky/Chain Reaction Bicycles" <[email hidden]>
wrote:

>>>Uh, no. San Luis Obispo is the dividing line. We'd never cede the
>
>garden
>
>>>spots of Pozo & Creston to Southern California.
>>
>>I'd have to vote against this because if you'll go that far south
>>you'll have to start considering Bakersfield too and no one wants to

go

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>>down that road-not even the people in Fresno.
>
>Who said anything about drawing a line straight across the state?

We'll

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>take in the coastal range up to, say, Lodi... aw heck, why even

include the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>central valley at all? Give Sacramento to LA as well. Just run all

the way

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>up the coast to, say, Red Bluff... then cut across to the Sierras, and

head

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>back down south as far as Lone Pine. Everything on the edges and

extreme

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>north is ours; they get the the south and the valley.

Easy there , Mike - Warren's up by Sac. Those could be fightin'

words...

Quoted message said:

Nah, Mike has obviously lost his way. I'd much rather live east of the
valley than west of it like he does.

Quoted message said:

Yeah, but even Warren has to recognize that Sacto has become a suburb of
Hollywood. What right thinking person wants THAT in their neighborhood.
Makes all the drug cheats in cycling look like Romper Room.

I have no idea what you are talking about. Sac is nothing like
Hollywood, unless you're referring to something related to the state
capitol, which by the way is a very picturesque area of downtown.
There's good reason why Sac is sometimes referred to as the "City of
Trees". I live 20 miles east of Sac on the edge of the foothills-better
surroundings and better training.

The worst traffic I've ever driven through is through Sac -- I HATE it!
Last Monday, noon, heading west down I80 -- took 50 minutes! for four miles
before I80
merges with hwy 50 before the causeway. I saw grandmas on bikes
doubling our average speed. Plus, it's hotter than hell in Sac!

Give me Marin with our mild traffic jams on 101 which I never experience
anyway since I am either on the bike or the ferry to the office.

-KJP

"Ken Papai" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:tc2Ic.54379$MB3.44017@attbi_s04...

Quoted message said:

"warren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Richard Adams

Quoted message said:

Howard Kveck wrote:

> In article <[email hidden]>,
> "Mike Jacoubowsky/Chain Reaction Bicycles"

<[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> wrote:
>
>
>>>>Uh, no. San Luis Obispo is the dividing line. We'd never cede

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>>
>>garden
>>
>>>>spots of Pozo & Creston to Southern California.
>>>
>>>I'd have to vote against this because if you'll go that far south
>>>you'll have to start considering Bakersfield too and no one wants

to

Quoted message said:

go

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>>>down that road-not even the people in Fresno.
>>
>>Who said anything about drawing a line straight across the state?

We'll

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>>take in the coastal range up to, say, Lodi... aw heck, why even

include the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>>central valley at all? Give Sacramento to LA as well. Just run all

the way

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>>up the coast to, say, Red Bluff... then cut across to the Sierras,

and

Quoted message said:

head

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>>back down south as far as Lone Pine. Everything on the edges and

extreme

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>>north is ours; they get the the south and the valley.
>
>
> Easy there , Mike - Warren's up by Sac. Those could be fightin'

words...

Quoted message said:

Nah, Mike has obviously lost his way. I'd much rather live east of the
valley than west of it like he does.

Quoted message said:

Yeah, but even Warren has to recognize that Sacto has become a suburb

of

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Hollywood. What right thinking person wants THAT in their

neighborhood.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Makes all the drug cheats in cycling look like Romper Room.

I have no idea what you are talking about. Sac is nothing like
Hollywood, unless you're referring to something related to the state
capitol, which by the way is a very picturesque area of downtown.
There's good reason why Sac is sometimes referred to as the "City of
Trees". I live 20 miles east of Sac on the edge of the foothills-better
surroundings and better training.

The worst traffic I've ever driven through is through Sac -- I HATE it!
Last Monday, noon, heading west down I80 -- took 50 minutes! for four

miles

Quoted message said:

before I80
merges with hwy 50 before the causeway. I saw grandmas on bikes
doubling our average speed. Plus, it's hotter than hell in Sac!

Give me Marin with our mild traffic jams on 101 which I never experience
anyway since I am either on the bike or the ferry to the office.

-KJP

You know, Ken, I really wish you'd shorten up your posts. Clip the stuff
you don't need. and please stick to bike racing. talking about traffic is
just not appropriate for rbr.

"Mike Jacoubowsky/Chain Reaction Bicycles" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Uh, no. San Luis Obispo is the dividing line. We'd never cede the

garden

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

spots of Pozo & Creston to Southern California.

I'd have to vote against this because if you'll go that far south
you'll have to start considering Bakersfield too and no one wants to go
down that road-not even the people in Fresno.

Who said anything about drawing a line straight across the state? We'll
take in the coastal range up to, say, Lodi... aw heck, why even include the
central valley at all? Give Sacramento to LA as well. Just run all the way
up the coast to, say, Red Bluff... then cut across to the Sierras, and head
back down south as far as Lone Pine. Everything on the edges and extreme
north is ours; they get the the south and the valley.

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
IMBA, BikesBelong, NBDA member

I would vote for extending a line just south of SLO, including the
Prefumo/See Canyon ride, and excluding the rest of the 5 cities area.
Certainly give Santa Maria to LA.

You know, 101 past Gilroy could be a good dividing line; anything on
the west is NorCal, the rest (to Pismo Beach at least) can be fed to
the beast.

However, selective annexation of certain outposts might well be in
order.
Like Mt. Figueroa (sp?) and the Santa Barbara Mts.

SS

"Carl Sundquist" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

"Howard Kveck" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Everything south of Santa Barbara is all the same to Northern

Californians.

Quoted message said:

Everything south of Gilroy is all the same to us norteños.

Why Gilroy? Is it the garlic?

Carl
Can't believe norteños would not claim the Monterey Peninsula.

Never in my life have I had a reason to go south of Gilroy, except to
visit family. Between San Jose, San Francisco and Los Gatos, I'm
set...

-Sonarrat.

In article <tc2Ic.54379$MB3.44017@attbi_s04>, Ken Papai

Quoted message said:

"warren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Richard Adams

Quoted message said:

Howard Kveck wrote:

> In article <[email hidden]>,
> "Mike Jacoubowsky/Chain Reaction Bicycles" <[email hidden]>
> wrote:
>
>
>>>>Uh, no. San Luis Obispo is the dividing line. We'd never cede the
>>
>>garden
>>
>>>>spots of Pozo & Creston to Southern California.
>>>
>>>I'd have to vote against this because if you'll go that far south
>>>you'll have to start considering Bakersfield too and no one wants to

go

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>>>down that road-not even the people in Fresno.
>>
>>Who said anything about drawing a line straight across the state?

We'll

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>>take in the coastal range up to, say, Lodi... aw heck, why even

include the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>>central valley at all? Give Sacramento to LA as well. Just run all

the way

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>>up the coast to, say, Red Bluff... then cut across to the Sierras, and

head

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>>back down south as far as Lone Pine. Everything on the edges and

extreme

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>>north is ours; they get the the south and the valley.
>
>
> Easy there , Mike - Warren's up by Sac. Those could be fightin'

words...

Quoted message said:

Nah, Mike has obviously lost his way. I'd much rather live east of the
valley than west of it like he does.

Quoted message said:

Yeah, but even Warren has to recognize that Sacto has become a suburb of
Hollywood. What right thinking person wants THAT in their neighborhood.
Makes all the drug cheats in cycling look like Romper Room.

I have no idea what you are talking about. Sac is nothing like
Hollywood, unless you're referring to something related to the state
capitol, which by the way is a very picturesque area of downtown.
There's good reason why Sac is sometimes referred to as the "City of
Trees". I live 20 miles east of Sac on the edge of the foothills-better
surroundings and better training.

The worst traffic I've ever driven through is through Sac -- I HATE it!
Last Monday, noon, heading west down I80 -- took 50 minutes! for four miles
before I80
merges with hwy 50 before the causeway.

An abnormality. An accident or some other obstacle. Normal through
there except at rush hour is 65+mph from downtown Sac to Davis. My wife
commutes from near downtown to the east for 22+ miles and the normal
drive time in the evening rush hour is 45 minutes, 30 minutes in the
morning. She could take the light rail train nearly the whole way but
doesn't bother.

Quoted message said:

Plus, it's hotter than hell in Sac!

You guys get twice the rain of Sac and by 6pm it's rarely too hot to
train here.

Quoted message said:

Give me Marin with our mild traffic jams on 101 which I never experience
anyway since I am either on the bike or the ferry to the office.

My wife can do her 25 mile each way bike commute and all but 2 miles of
it is on the bike trail along the river.

-WG

Quoted message said:

Nah, Mike has obviously lost his way. I'd much rather live east of the
valley than west of it like he does.

Unless you live above 1800ft or so, I much prefer things where I am. No
valley smog, no thule fog and it's extraordinarily rare that we get more
than three hot (by our standards, not yours!) days in a row before the ocean
breezes come back in and cool things down.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Yeah, but even Warren has to recognize that Sacto has become a suburb of
Hollywood. What right thinking person wants THAT in their neighborhood.
Makes all the drug cheats in cycling look like Romper Room.

I have no idea what you are talking about. Sac is nothing like
Hollywood, unless you're referring to something related to the state
capitol, which by the way is a very picturesque area of downtown.
There's good reason why Sac is sometimes referred to as the "City of
Trees". I live 20 miles east of Sac on the edge of the foothills-better
surroundings and better training.

Sacramento, like many valley towns, is more similar to a town in the South
(as in Georgia), rather than LA. In fact, valley towns are often used in
movies as Southern towns (one of my cousins, who lives in Colusa, was an
extra in the movie "Tick Tick Tick" about racial tensions in the South when
a black sheriff comes to town).

As for Sacramento wanting to be the next Hollywood, I have my doubts. But,
as a political powerbase, did you notice that airlines now have direct
flights from Sacramento to DC?

But this is moot for Warren anyway. If he really does live in the
Foothills, that's good enough for me. I'll consider him a Northern
Californian.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

Sonarrat said:

"Carl Sundquist" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

"Howard Kveck" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

>Everything south of Santa Barbara is all the same to Northern

Californians.

Quoted message said:

Everything south of Gilroy is all the same to us norteños.

Why Gilroy? Is it the garlic?

Carl
Can't believe norteños would not claim the Monterey Peninsula.

Never in my life have I had a reason to go south of Gilroy, except to
visit family. Between San Jose, San Francisco and Los Gatos, I'm
set...

-Sonarrat.

I'm just peachy lurking around Santa Cruz and Monterey. All the flat,
hills and grades you could ever want.

In article <[email hidden]>, Mike

Jacoubowsky said:

Quoted message said:

Nah, Mike has obviously lost his way. I'd much rather live east of the
valley than west of it like he does.

Unless you live above 1800ft or so, I much prefer things where I am. No
valley smog, no thule fog and it's extraordinarily rare that we get more
than three hot (by our standards, not yours!) days in a row before the ocean
breezes come back in and cool things down.

Quoted message said:

But this is moot for Warren anyway. If he really does live in the
Foothills, that's good enough for me. I'll consider him a Northern
Californian.

I'm happy, you're happy. Life is good. I can think of hundreds of worse
places than where either of us choose to live.

-WG

Mike Jacoubowsky/Chain Reaction Bicycles said:

Who said anything about drawing a line straight across the state? We'll
take in the coastal range up to, say, Lodi... aw heck, why even include the
central valley at all? Give Sacramento to LA as well. Just run all the way
up the coast to, say, Red Bluff... then cut across to the Sierras, and head
back down south as far as Lone Pine. Everything on the edges and extreme
north is ours; they get the the south and the valley.

After the border is demarcated and checkpoints set up, how are
you going to get "your" water from the Sierras across the
valley (excuse me, the DMZ) to the Bay Area?

-Ben
Laughs when Northern Californians criticize Southern Californians
for shallowness, high traffic or being environmentally unsound -
it's the narcissism of minor differences.

Carl Sundquist said:

"Howard Kveck" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Everything south of Gilroy is all the same to us norteños.

Quoted message said:

Why Gilroy? Is it the garlic?

Carl
Can't believe norteños would not claim the Monterey Peninsula.

The dividing line should be at Salinas, because Salinas and
southwards have In-n-Out Burger, which is iconically southern.
(Yeah, there's one in San Jose, but that's a novelty, like a
high-class Japanese restaurant in an eastern US city.)
However, the real culinary Iron Curtain used to be somewhere around
the northern boundary of the San Fernando Valley - northward
of the line, forget about getting a fish taco made the right way.
That may be changing. There's even a chain spreading
northward that makes decent fish tacos.

Uh, all regional and national divisions are based on cuisine, right?

-Ben
Northern Californians need Southern California so they can have
something to scapegoat and poke fun at - the same way the rest of the
country looks at California.

On 07/12/2004 02:20 AM, in article
[email hidden], "Benjamin Weiner"

Quoted message said:

Carl Sundquist said:

"Howard Kveck" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Everything south of Gilroy is all the same to us norteños.

Quoted message said:

Why Gilroy? Is it the garlic?

Carl
Can't believe norteños would not claim the Monterey Peninsula.

The dividing line should be at Salinas, because Salinas and
southwards have In-n-Out Burger, which is iconically southern.
(Yeah, there's one in San Jose, but that's a novelty, like a
high-class Japanese restaurant in an eastern US city.)

Can't be In-N-Out that makes the dividing line, because there are at least 6
in NorCal, not counting the ones in San Jose ...

Marin County
Mill Valley
798 Redwood Hwy.
94941

San Francisco County
San Francisco
333 Jefferson St.
94133

San Mateo County
Daly City
260 Washington Street
94015

Contra Costa County
Pinole
1417 Fitzgerald Dr.
94564

Contra Costa County
San Ramon
2270 San Ramon Valley Blvd.
94583

Napa County
Napa
820 Imola Ave.
94559

--
Steven L. Sheffield
stevens at veloworks dot com
veloworks at worldnet dot ay tea tee dot net
bellum pax est libertas servitus est ignoratio vis est
ess ay ell tea ell ay kay ee sea aye tee why you ti ay aitch
aitch tee tea pea colon [for word] slash [four ward] slash double-you
double-yew double-ewe dot veloworks dot com [four word] slash

Quoted message said:

After the border is demarcated and checkpoints set up, how are
you going to get "your" water from the Sierras across the
valley (excuse me, the DMZ) to the Bay Area?

-Ben
Laughs when Northern Californians criticize Southern Californians
for shallowness, high traffic or being environmentally unsound -
it's the narcissism of minor differences.

The real irony is that us NorCal types get all excited about various
rivalries with SoCal sports teams and just generally profess a hatred for
all-things SoCal (including the aforementioned stealing of "our" water etc).
But a rivalry generally takes two to make it work, and, in my experience,
most SoCal folk could care less about what goes on in NorCal.

But yes, I agree with you.

By the way, regarding getting the water across the valley (or DMZ as you
called it). No problem yet, 'cuz the Southern Californian's haven't yet
figured out how we do it. Thank goodness our forefathers had the idea of
burying the pipeline! Uh-oh, did I just blow it?

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

On 07/14/2004 01:04 AM, in article
[email hidden], "Mike Jacoubowsky"

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

After the border is demarcated and checkpoints set up, how are
you going to get "your" water from the Sierras across the
valley (excuse me, the DMZ) to the Bay Area?

-Ben
Laughs when Northern Californians criticize Southern Californians
for shallowness, high traffic or being environmentally unsound -
it's the narcissism of minor differences.

The real irony is that us NorCal types get all excited about various
rivalries with SoCal sports teams and just generally profess a hatred for
all-things SoCal (including the aforementioned stealing of "our" water etc).
But a rivalry generally takes two to make it work, and, in my experience,
most SoCal folk could care less about what goes on in NorCal.

Yup ... SoCal folk hate New York much more than they hate NorCal ... Whereas
NorCal folk (or at least SF/Marin folk) often seem to have an affinity for
New York.

To be honest, many SF/Marin folk hate San Jose almost as much as they hate
LA.

Quoted message said:

But yes, I agree with you.

By the way, regarding getting the water across the valley (or DMZ as you
called it). No problem yet, 'cuz the Southern Californian's haven't yet
figured out how we do it. Thank goodness our forefathers had the idea of
burying the pipeline! Uh-oh, did I just blow it?

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

--
Steven L. Sheffield
stevens at veloworks dot com
veloworks at worldnet dot ay tea tee dot net
bellum pax est libertas servitus est ignoratio vis est
ess ay ell tea ell ay kay ee sea aye tee why you ti ay aitch
aitch tee tea pea colon [for word] slash [four ward] slash double-you
double-yew double-ewe dot veloworks dot com [four word] slash

K. J. Papai said:

How do you know V's from Burbank? I've been there often.

From CV's message header:

NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.184.80.113

Testing that address:
Tracing route to sdn-ap-009caburbP0086.dialsprint.net [63.184.80.86]
....
10 6 ms 6 ms 6 ms sdn-bb10-stk-9-0.dialsprint.net
[207.143.47.1]
11 17 ms 17 ms 18 ms sdn-bb10-ana-4-3.dialsprint.net
[207.143.48.54]
12 18 ms 16 ms 15 ms sdn-bb11-ana-9-0.dialsprint.net
[207.143.48.2]
13 17 ms 17 ms 17 ms sdn-acr2-bur-4-3.dialsprint.net
[207.143.48.66]
14 31 ms 20 ms 20 ms sdn-ap-009caburb001T.dialsprint.net
[63.184.94.10]
15 192 ms 690 ms 499 ms sdn-ap-009caburbP0086.dialsprint.net
[63.184.80.86]

Pretty clearly Burbank, CA (and that address probably just started an
illegal P2P file xfer).

(Now that I consider this, it might not be a great idea telling folks
in this group how to do some of these tricks. Ah, what the heck?)

--
Tony Rall

"Steven L. Sheffield" <stevens...

Quoted message said:

On 07/14/2004 01:04 AM, in article
[email hidden], "Mike Jacoubowsky"
<[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Laughs when Northern Californians criticize Southern Californians
for shallowness, high traffic or being environmentally unsound -
it's the narcissism of minor differences.

The real irony is that us NorCal types get all excited about various
rivalries with SoCal sports teams and just generally profess a hatred

for

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

all-things SoCal (including the aforementioned stealing of "our" water

etc).

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

But a rivalry generally takes two to make it work, and, in my

experience,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

most SoCal folk could care less about what goes on in NorCal.

Yup ... SoCal folk hate New York much more than they hate NorCal ...

Whereas

Quoted message said:

NorCal folk (or at least SF/Marin folk) often seem to have an affinity for
New York.

To be honest, many SF/Marin folk hate San Jose almost as much as they hate
LA.

Word.