Helping to Dump [censored] Pound

If we're ever to believe that the labs are truly objective, then the
body that oversees them needs to shut the hell up and quit commenting
on unresolved cases. Pound has cranked up the hyperbole tenfold while
contributing very little.

I don't understand why people are so frustrated because of him. Every now
and then Pound comes and says that someone doped, but they all failed some
test anyway. His media statements don't mean anything; if Hamilton is
cleared then he can give Pound the finger and if not, then Pound was right
all along. It's all about tests, procedures and decisions, the rest is just
noise.

Jonathan v.d. Sluis said:

I don't understand why people are so frustrated because of him. Every now
and then Pound comes and says that someone doped, but they all failed some
test anyway. His media statements don't mean anything; if Hamilton is
cleared then he can give Pound the finger and if not, then Pound was right
all along. It's all about tests, procedures and decisions, the rest is just
noise.

I had a friend who used to get out of jury duty by amking comments
like "Where are the guilty [censored]? Lets hang 'em all!" and that's
pretty much equivalent to Pound. Except that he's the final word in the
Tribunal of cycling justice. Needless to say the complaint is that he's
not objective. If he was solely a prosecutor that'd be great, but he's
the whole damn court and that's not.
Having an appeal to CAS doesn't change the fact that Pound's WADA is a
kangaroo court.
Bill C

In article <[email hidden]>,

Jonathan v.d. Sluis said:

I don't understand why people are so frustrated because of him. Every now
and then Pound comes and says that someone doped, but they all failed some
test anyway. His media statements don't mean anything; if Hamilton is

The dispute is that Armstrong did not test positive for a
performance enhancing substance according to WADA's
protocols, and therefore the head of WADA oughtn't make
the accusation.

Quoted message said:

cleared then he can give Pound the finger and if not, then Pound was right
all along. It's all about tests, procedures and decisions, the rest is just
noise.

So it does not matter to you that cycling's governing
bodies are accusing one another of malfeasance?

--
Michael Press

"So it does not matter to you that cycling's governing
bodies are accusing one another of malfeasance? "

Precisely. Each organization needs to follow the rules of their
respective organizations. If they would just do that, then they should
be able to work together just fine.

Pound needs to shut his mouth and go find out how a lab he oversees was
able to leak a test result. Actually, he needs to restrict his
comments on quite a few other areas as well.

Hein needs to shut his mouth and revisit his organization's policies on
documents.

They BOTH need to sit down together and hammer out a process for how
accusations such as these are handled.

So you think he is more harmful to this sport than Hein "Corleone"
Verbruggen?

No. Verbruggen is damaging to cycling. Pound damages every sport that
interacts with WADA.

Feel free to start your own crusade against Verbruggen. I'm sure the
team ownership is plenty [censored] at him already right now.

In article
<[email hidden]>,

Quoted message said:

"So it does not matter to you that cycling's governing
bodies are accusing one another of malfeasance? "

Precisely. Each organization needs to follow the rules of their

You answer in the affirmative

Quoted message said:

respective organizations. If they would just do that, then they should
be able to work together just fine.

Pound needs to shut his mouth and go find out how a lab he oversees was
able to leak a test result. Actually, he needs to restrict his
comments on quite a few other areas as well.

then bely your answer here.

Quoted message said:

Hein needs to shut his mouth and revisit his organization's policies on
documents.

and here.

Quoted message said:

They BOTH need to sit down together and hammer out a process for how
accusations such as these are handled.

--
Michael Press

My understanding of the Hamilton case (and probably Santi as well) is
that WADA has essentially said, "We don't need no scientifically valid
tests."

The facts are that we were assured by WADA that EVERYONE was blood
packing. OK, let's assume that EVERYONE was 20% of the peloton. So why
only two riders test positive? At that rate it COULD as easily be false
positives or positives from entirely different causes than blood
packing.

I'm afraid that I have a much larger problems with injustice than I do
with cheating on that level.

Quoted message said:

"So it does not matter to you that cycling's governing
bodies are accusing one another of malfeasance? "

Precisely. Each organization needs to follow the rules of their
respective organizations. If they would just do that, then they should
be able to work together just fine.

Pound needs to shut his mouth and go find out how a lab he oversees was
able to leak a test result. Actually, he needs to restrict his
comments on quite a few other areas as well.

Hein needs to shut his mouth and revisit his organization's policies on
documents.

They BOTH need to sit down together and hammer out a process for how
accusations such as these are handled.

Doen't look like Pound wants to cooperate, in spite of his being
required to by the Wada charter.
Good stuff:
http://www.velonews.com/news/fea/8926.0.html
It's really pretty simple there is no law except the law that Pound
sya yo have RIGHT now. That could change in the next five minutes with
his next mood and crusade. The man is proving beyond a shadow of a
doubt that he has absolutely business running what is supposed to be an
ethical and objective agency. It's Verbruggen's job to promote and
protect cycling, so at least he's got the excuse of his believing he's
doing the right thing. Pound on the other line is brutally violating
the governing charter of his own agency, has shown himself to be
incredibly predjudiced (in it's prejudgement usage), and unethical at
best.
Hopefully some more of ther board have had enough.
Bill C

"Bill C" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"So it does not matter to you that cycling's governing
bodies are accusing one another of malfeasance? "

Precisely. Each organization needs to follow the rules of their
respective organizations. If they would just do that, then they should
be able to work together just fine.

Pound needs to shut his mouth and go find out how a lab he oversees was
able to leak a test result. Actually, he needs to restrict his
comments on quite a few other areas as well.

Hein needs to shut his mouth and revisit his organization's policies on
documents.

They BOTH need to sit down together and hammer out a process for how
accusations such as these are handled.

Doen't look like Pound wants to cooperate, in spite of his being
required to by the Wada charter.
Good stuff:
http://www.velonews.com/news/fea/8926.0.html
It's really pretty simple there is no law except the law that Pound
sya yo have RIGHT now. That could change in the next five minutes with
his next mood and crusade. The man is proving beyond a shadow of a
doubt that he has absolutely business running what is supposed to be an
ethical and objective agency. It's Verbruggen's job to promote and
protect cycling, so at least he's got the excuse of his believing he's
doing the right thing.

From the BBC:

Madrid Worlds hit by UCI boycott
The International Cycling Union's top officials will boycott Tuesday's
opening ceremony at the World Road Race Championships in Spain.
The UCI said it had agreed to leave host city Madrid, "deeply indignant" at
the Spanish Cycling Federation (RFEC) and would instead meet in Geneva.

Tempers have flared ahead of the UCI presidential elections on Friday.

The RFEC has sought to prevent current UCI boss Hein Verbruggen from
presiding over presidential elections this week.

"The outrageous behaviour of the RFEC is inexplicable and incomprehensible,"
said the Swiss-based UCI in a statement.

"From its attitude, this national federation has made it completely clear
that its only aim is to destabilise the UCI on the eve of its annual
congress."

The deepening power struggle centres on a difference in opinion about
current Verbruggen.

The RFEC took legal action aimed at preventing Verbruggen from presiding
over the congress, arguing that he should not continue to serve as president
because of "manipulation of the electoral process".

But the UCI said that, with the exception of one member, the committee had
expressed full solidarity with Verbruggen, 64.

B. Lafferty said:

"Bill C" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"So it does not matter to you that cycling's governing
bodies are accusing one another of malfeasance? "

Precisely. Each organization needs to follow the rules of their
respective organizations. If they would just do that, then they should
be able to work together just fine.

Pound needs to shut his mouth and go find out how a lab he oversees was
able to leak a test result. Actually, he needs to restrict his
comments on quite a few other areas as well.

Hein needs to shut his mouth and revisit his organization's policies on
documents.

They BOTH need to sit down together and hammer out a process for how
accusations such as these are handled.

Doen't look like Pound wants to cooperate, in spite of his being
required to by the Wada charter.
Good stuff:
http://www.velonews.com/news/fea/8926.0.html
It's really pretty simple there is no law except the law that Pound
sya yo have RIGHT now. That could change in the next five minutes with
his next mood and crusade. The man is proving beyond a shadow of a
doubt that he has absolutely business running what is supposed to be an
ethical and objective agency. It's Verbruggen's job to promote and
protect cycling, so at least he's got the excuse of his believing he's
doing the right thing.

From the BBC:

Madrid Worlds hit by UCI boycott
The International Cycling Union's top officials will boycott Tuesday's
opening ceremony at the World Road Race Championships in Spain.
The UCI said it had agreed to leave host city Madrid, "deeply indignant" at
the Spanish Cycling Federation (RFEC) and would instead meet in Geneva.

Tempers have flared ahead of the UCI presidential elections on Friday.

The RFEC has sought to prevent current UCI boss Hein Verbruggen from
presiding over presidential elections this week.

"The outrageous behaviour of the RFEC is inexplicable and incomprehensible,"
said the Swiss-based UCI in a statement.

"From its attitude, this national federation has made it completely clear
that its only aim is to destabilise the UCI on the eve of its annual
congress."

The deepening power struggle centres on a difference in opinion about
current Verbruggen.

The RFEC took legal action aimed at preventing Verbruggen from presiding
over the congress, arguing that he should not continue to serve as president
because of "manipulation of the electoral process".

But the UCI said that, with the exception of one member, the committee had
expressed full solidarity with Verbruggen, 64.

Not a hell of a lot to choose from between them, eh? I sincerely hope
that this is going to be the big fracture that splits the GTs, UCI, and
several of the NGBs apart. Nothing was changing here until whole
regions started bailing, and running races, and series very
successfully without USAC. Now at least we have people who are willing
to listen, are approachable, and seem to be trying to help the sport in
spite of the budget mess they were left with.
Hopefully it doesn't have to go that far on the world stage, but it
sure doesn't look good.
Bill C

Tom,

Most are smart enough not to use someone else's blood. That is they use
some form of Epo or else autologous transfusion. Phonak were stupid or
careless.

Does it concern you that Santi has taken his punishment and gone
quietly off to pasture?

"Patricio Carlos" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Tom,

Most are smart enough not to use someone else's blood. That is they use
some form of Epo or else autologous transfusion. Phonak were stupid or
careless.

And maybe they used fairey dust!

Quoted message said:

Does it concern you that Santi has taken his punishment and gone
quietly off to pasture?

It concerns me that he has stated that he did no such thing and you have
convicted him.

Now you are really putting your head in the sand (or "fairey dust"😉.

How many dopers said "yes, I did it"? The vast majority continue to
protest their innocence or else just go quietly off to pasture. The
David Millar's are a rarity.

Do you also believe Pantani, Rumsas, Museeuw, Marion Jones, Carl Lewis,
Flo Jo etc because they said they didn't dope?

"Do you also believe Pantani, Rumsas, Museeuw, Marion Jones, Carl
Lewis,
Flo Jo etc because they said they didn't dope?"

I don't know - was there independent proof in their cases?

The WADA has admitted that they haven't performed all of the proper
studies to ascertain the true qualitative accuracy of some of their
doping tests. Without those, these "positives" are little more than
rumors.

No Surprise, but it looks like Pound has the WADA HQ well rigged to
prevent any criticism from reaching his overseers (foundation board
members). When I went through "official" channels on how I might write
to members of the board, here is the response that came back to me.

"Thank you for your note. I would suggest that you address your letter
to
our Director General, Mr David Howman and/or the President of the WADA
Foundation Board, Mr Richard Pound. Upon receipt, they can
forward/circulate your letter to the members if they feel it
appropriate.

I trust you understand that we are not able to provide the contact
details of our members directly to you.

With kind regards,

Shannan Withers
Senior Manager, Executive "

Pantani - haematocrit up to 60% then dropped down to the 30's
presumably due to anti-Epo antibodies.
Rumsas - a car full of drugs and a very unexpected podium in the Tour.
Screwed his wife & mother in the process.
Museeuw - tapped calls about how he should be using darbopoietin.
Jones - various witnesses describing how they provided, administered or
observed administration of PED's.
Flo Jo - sudden spectacular improvement then retirement when out of
competition testing introduced then early death. (Plus the give away of
acne and a top lip that required daily shaving).

Look, we were all sad to see Tyler go down. But that is not a reason
for you to become a complete doping denialist.