Help with idling bigger wheel

OK, I've had my 29er for a couple of weeks now and am getting a lot more
comfortable riding it and my static mounts are getting more consistent.
I can also manage a roll back mount every once in a while but it's not
easy. The thing I'm currently having trouble with is idling. The
bigger wheel has so much momemtum that I just can't seem to stop it
from rolling in whatever direction it's going and get it reversed.
Does anyone have any tips or tricks for idling on a 29er or even a
Coker? Any ideas are always greatly appreciated.

--
underdog

'I tell you, we are here on Earth to fart around, and don't let anybody
tell you different' - Kurt Vonnegut
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OK, I've had my 29er for a couple of weeks now and am getting a lot more
comfortable riding it and my static mounts are getting more consistent.
I can also manage a roll back mount every once in a while but it's not
easy. The thing I'm currently having trouble with is idling. The
bigger wheel has so much momemtum that I just can't seem to stop it
from rolling in whatever direction it's going and get it reversed.
Does anyone have any tips or tricks for idling on a 29er or even a
Coker? Any ideas are always greatly appreciated.

--
underdog

'I tell you, we are here on Earth to fart around, and don't let anybody
tell you different' - Kurt Vonnegut
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flyer said:

when I was learning, it helped to try and idle in as little space as I
could, in addition to pulling up on the seat as hard as possible to
make sure I could exert enough pressure on the wheel to keep it from
shooting backwards.

This was on a 29'er with 125mm cranks.

I disagree.

I think it is better to let the wheel slowly roll up to near cranks
horizontal. This allows you to slow and reverse the wheel at the point
at which you have the most torque.

Once you start learning to control the front/back motion of the wheel
(and it is a learning process so keep trying), You will have to learn
to control the side to side balance. This is much harder on the bigger
wheel because your idle cycles take longer to complete, meaning it is
more difficult to move the wheel under you in time, because if you
accelerate it too much you will be unable to stop it from shooting
off.

So you have to practice keeping yourself over the wheel without moving
the unicycle much. This can be done though arm or hip movements, or a
quick twist of the whole unicycle.

I don't know if thats helpful, but I wish you luck.

--
TheObieOne3226

'SWAT Gallery' (http://gallery.unicyclist.com/SWAT)
'SWAT webpage' (singlewheeledattackteam.1hwy.com)
'Arrow Racing' (http://www.arrowracing.com/)
'Sixsixone' (http://www.sixsixone.com)

\"obie is definately a trend setter, i got in to unicycling because of
him, and came here because of him\" - kj-52

\"try not to annoy the great obie, for he is better than us.\" - murde
mental

*disclaimer: the above message was not intended to offend anyone. if
you are offended i can take no responsibility for my actions because i
don't feel like it. also you are reading an internet newsgroup where
not everyone will share your same views and beliefs, be able to take
criticism and post/read threads at your own risk.*
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flyer said:

when I was learning, it helped to try and idle in as little space as I
could, in addition to pulling up on the seat as hard as possible to
make sure I could exert enough pressure on the wheel to keep it from
shooting backwards.

This was on a 29'er with 125mm cranks.

I disagree.

I think it is better to let the wheel slowly roll up to near cranks
horizontal. This allows you to slow and reverse the wheel at the point
at which you have the most torque.

Once you start learning to control the front/back motion of the wheel
(and it is a learning process so keep trying), You will have to learn
to control the side to side balance. This is much harder on the bigger
wheel because your idle cycles take longer to complete, meaning it is
more difficult to move the wheel under you in time, because if you
accelerate it too much you will be unable to stop it from shooting
off.

So you have to practice keeping yourself over the wheel without moving
the unicycle much. This can be done though arm or hip movements, or a
quick twist of the whole unicycle.

I don't know if thats helpful, but I wish you luck.

--
TheObieOne3226

'SWAT Gallery' (http://gallery.unicyclist.com/SWAT)
'SWAT webpage' (singlewheeledattackteam.1hwy.com)
'Arrow Racing' (http://www.arrowracing.com/)
'Sixsixone' (http://www.sixsixone.com)

\"obie is definately a trend setter, i got in to unicycling because of
him, and came here because of him\" - kj-52

\"try not to annoy the great obie, for he is better than us.\" - murde
mental

*disclaimer: the above message was not intended to offend anyone. if
you are offended i can take no responsibility for my actions because i
don't feel like it. also you are reading an internet newsgroup where
not everyone will share your same views and beliefs, be able to take
criticism and post/read threads at your own risk.*
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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flyer said:

when I was learning, it helped to try and idle in as little space as I
could, in addition to pulling up on the seat as hard as possible to
make sure I could exert enough pressure on the wheel to keep it from
shooting backwards.

This was on a 29'er with 125mm cranks.

I disagree.

I think it is better to let the wheel slowly roll up to near cranks
horizontal. This allows you to slow and reverse the wheel at the point
at which you have the most torque.

Once you start learning to control the front/back motion of the wheel
(and it is a learning process so keep trying), You will have to learn
to control the side to side balance. This is much harder on the bigger
wheel because your idle cycles take longer to complete, meaning it is
more difficult to move the wheel under you in time, because if you
accelerate it too much you will be unable to stop it from shooting
off.

So you have to practice keeping yourself over the wheel without moving
the unicycle much. This can be done though arm or hip movements, or a
quick twist of the whole unicycle.

I don't know if thats helpful, but I wish you luck.

--
TheObieOne3226

'SWAT Gallery' (http://gallery.unicyclist.com/SWAT)
'SWAT webpage' (singlewheeledattackteam.1hwy.com)
'Arrow Racing' (http://www.arrowracing.com/)
'Sixsixone' (http://www.sixsixone.com)

\"obie is definately a trend setter, i got in to unicycling because of
him, and came here because of him\" - kj-52

\"try not to annoy the great obie, for he is better than us.\" - murde
mental

*disclaimer: the above message was not intended to offend anyone. if
you are offended i can take no responsibility for my actions because i
don't feel like it. also you are reading an internet newsgroup where
not everyone will share your same views and beliefs, be able to take
criticism and post/read threads at your own risk.*
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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It's not brute force you need. It's timing.

On a 20, it is possible to idle by stomping the pedal. You can more or
less choose the speed of the idle. There is little momentum, and lots
of leverage. Also, the small wheel is easier to control to maintain
the sideways element of your balance.

On a larger wheel, especially a heavier one, you need to work with the
unicycle rather than trying to dominate it.

Idling consists of two almost stable positions, and a well timed
transfer from one to the other.

Position #1 is with the wheel forwards, and your weight about to tip
backwards.

Position #2 is with the wheel back and your weight about to tip
forwards.

Instead of blindly pumping away, wait until the unicycle reaches
position #1 or #2, and then ride it the short distance (about 1/4 of a
wheel-turn, if that_ to the opposite position.

Talk of "momentum" is misleading. It's not that the bigger wheel has
loads more mass and momentum, it's that the leverage exerted through
the cranks is different.

Pulling up on the seat may help in the short term, but it will also
encourage you to stick with bad technique.

And as with all idling, look at something fixed a long way away, at
least until the movement becomes automatic.

--
Mikefule

dit dit diddle iddle dit dit... BANG! ow ow ow! that nasty
unincyclinge man has deaded me! naughty unincyclinge man!
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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It's not brute force you need. It's timing.

On a 20, it is possible to idle by stomping the pedal. You can more or
less choose the speed of the idle. There is little momentum, and lots
of leverage. Also, the small wheel is easier to control to maintain
the sideways element of your balance.

On a larger wheel, especially a heavier one, you need to work with the
unicycle rather than trying to dominate it.

Idling consists of two almost stable positions, and a well timed
transfer from one to the other.

Position #1 is with the wheel forwards, and your weight about to tip
backwards.

Position #2 is with the wheel back and your weight about to tip
forwards.

Instead of blindly pumping away, wait until the unicycle reaches
position #1 or #2, and then ride it the short distance (about 1/4 of a
wheel-turn, if that_ to the opposite position.

Talk of "momentum" is misleading. It's not that the bigger wheel has
loads more mass and momentum, it's that the leverage exerted through
the cranks is different.

Pulling up on the seat may help in the short term, but it will also
encourage you to stick with bad technique.

And as with all idling, look at something fixed a long way away, at
least until the movement becomes automatic.

--
Mikefule

dit dit diddle iddle dit dit... BANG! ow ow ow! that nasty
unincyclinge man has deaded me! naughty unincyclinge man!
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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It's not brute force you need. It's timing.

On a 20, it is possible to idle by stomping the pedal. You can more or
less choose the speed of the idle. There is little momentum, and lots
of leverage. Also, the small wheel is easier to control to maintain
the sideways element of your balance.

On a larger wheel, especially a heavier one, you need to work with the
unicycle rather than trying to dominate it.

Idling consists of two almost stable positions, and a well timed
transfer from one to the other.

Position #1 is with the wheel forwards, and your weight about to tip
backwards.

Position #2 is with the wheel back and your weight about to tip
forwards.

Instead of blindly pumping away, wait until the unicycle reaches
position #1 or #2, and then ride it the short distance (about 1/4 of a
wheel-turn, if that_ to the opposite position.

Talk of "momentum" is misleading. It's not that the bigger wheel has
loads more mass and momentum, it's that the leverage exerted through
the cranks is different.

Pulling up on the seat may help in the short term, but it will also
encourage you to stick with bad technique.

And as with all idling, look at something fixed a long way away, at
least until the movement becomes automatic.

--
Mikefule

dit dit diddle iddle dit dit... BANG! ow ow ow! that nasty
unincyclinge man has deaded me! naughty unincyclinge man!
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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S-L-O-W-L-Y...weight on the seat. You are using the same engine (your
legs) to drive a system that has more angular inertia. (This means that
I disagree with Mikefule somewhat but I've done that before.) Picture
yourself and a friend rolling a basketball back and forth between you.
Now picture the same thing with an automobile. Which is slower?

--
harper

-Greg Harper

B L U E S H I F T

*jc is the only main man. there can be no other.*

This is still my nth post....*AWESOME!!!*
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S-L-O-W-L-Y...weight on the seat. You are using the same engine (your
legs) to drive a system that has more angular inertia. (This means that
I disagree with Mikefule somewhat but I've done that before.) Picture
yourself and a friend rolling a basketball back and forth between you.
Now picture the same thing with an automobile. Which is slower?

--
harper

-Greg Harper

B L U E S H I F T

*jc is the only main man. there can be no other.*

This is still my nth post....*AWESOME!!!*
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S-L-O-W-L-Y...weight on the seat. You are using the same engine (your
legs) to drive a system that has more angular inertia. (This means that
I disagree with Mikefule somewhat but I've done that before.) Picture
yourself and a friend rolling a basketball back and forth between you.
Now picture the same thing with an automobile. Which is slower?

--
harper

-Greg Harper

B L U E S H I F T

*jc is the only main man. there can be no other.*

This is still my nth post....*AWESOME!!!*
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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I don't think you're disagreeing with me (in which case, i am now
disagreeing with you because you said you do, and I don't), but I was
trying to emphasise that he difference in inertia is not that great.
people blame intertia/momentum because it sounds like an absolute
that is beyond their control.

A 29 is about 50% bigger than a 20, and I guess weighs about 50% more,
give or take. If your wheel weighs a few pounds, and you weigh 140
pounds, then an extra couple of pounds on the wheel isn't the problem.
That's not to say it isn't a factor, just that it's not as big a factor
as some people claim - as an excuse.

--
Mikefule

dit dit diddle iddle dit dit... BANG! ow ow ow! that nasty
unincyclinge man has deaded me! naughty unincyclinge man!
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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I don't think you're disagreeing with me (in which case, i am now
disagreeing with you because you said you do, and I don't), but I was
trying to emphasise that he difference in inertia is not that great.
people blame intertia/momentum because it sounds like an absolute
that is beyond their control.

A 29 is about 50% bigger than a 20, and I guess weighs about 50% more,
give or take. If your wheel weighs a few pounds, and you weigh 140
pounds, then an extra couple of pounds on the wheel isn't the problem.
That's not to say it isn't a factor, just that it's not as big a factor
as some people claim - as an excuse.

--
Mikefule

dit dit diddle iddle dit dit... BANG! ow ow ow! that nasty
unincyclinge man has deaded me! naughty unincyclinge man!
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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I don't think you're disagreeing with me (in which case, i am now
disagreeing with you because you said you do, and I don't), but I was
trying to emphasise that he difference in inertia is not that great.
people blame intertia/momentum because it sounds like an absolute
that is beyond their control.

A 29 is about 50% bigger than a 20, and I guess weighs about 50% more,
give or take. If your wheel weighs a few pounds, and you weigh 140
pounds, then an extra couple of pounds on the wheel isn't the problem.
That's not to say it isn't a factor, just that it's not as big a factor
as some people claim - as an excuse.

--
Mikefule

dit dit diddle iddle dit dit... BANG! ow ow ow! that nasty
unincyclinge man has deaded me! naughty unincyclinge man!
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Atlas, this is a skill I am trying to master still. But I found learning
how to go backward helps alot in idle. Because you are almost GOING
backwards and forward when idle on big wheel. My Coker is like a
graceful blue whale, it will go where it wants to and I only can 'ask'
to change directions. :P

--
leadpan

"Pain is temporary. Quitting lasts forever" - Lance Armstrong
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Atlas, this is a skill I am trying to master still. But I found learning
how to go backward helps alot in idle. Because you are almost GOING
backwards and forward when idle on big wheel. My Coker is like a
graceful blue whale, it will go where it wants to and I only can 'ask'
to change directions. :P

--
leadpan

"Pain is temporary. Quitting lasts forever" - Lance Armstrong
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Here are some links to some movies of me idling and riding fast on my
29er.

'Idling video number one (good)'
(http://tinyurl.com/c9so8)
'Idling video number two (best)'
(http://tinyurl.com/ahgw6)
'Video of riding pretty fast (not top speed,
though)' (http://tinyurl.com/758wt)

--
UniTyler
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Here are some links to some movies of me idling and riding fast on my
29er.

'Idling video number one (good)'
(http://tinyurl.com/c9so8)
'Idling video number two (best)'
(http://tinyurl.com/ahgw6)
'Video of riding pretty fast (not top speed,
though)' (http://tinyurl.com/758wt)

--
UniTyler
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Tyler, nice 29er idling in your 'best' video!

--
trailguy
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