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HELP - To get straight and true

Started by Dee Dub · · Last activity · 9 posts · 650 views

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Australia and New Zealand
Published
31 January 2005
Last activity
1 February 2005
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Dee Dub
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9
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  1. Looking for advice, physical or on-line resources.

    My 'work' bike - commuter - has always had problems with back wheel. Partly self inflicted - I'm on the wrong side of 90kg. I replace spokes as they break but have continual problems with broken spokes and keeping it true and round.

    I turn the bike upside down to straighten, which is pretty good to view sideways movement, but I keep getting lumps.

    Lately, I have upgraded to heavier duty spokes which so far are holding in, but my problem is more my ability in the art of straightening.

    LBSs charges by the hr, and will hardly get out of bed to treat my ugly ducking for less than $20 - every 6 weeks - this is unsustainable. New wheel has been a thought, but this is already a new one, only used on road and bike paths (not really hard terrain). I am still optimistic about upgrading my skills to get it right.

    Any clues/instructions/ links to resources appreciated. Also, have wondered if there are any tools /jigs that can be constructed/purchased at reasonable cost to make this task easier.

    Any help appreciated. 🙂

  2. Dee Dub said:

    Looking for advice, physical or on-line resources.

    My 'work' bike - commuter - has always had problems with back wheel. Partly self inflicted - I'm on the wrong side of 90kg. I replace spokes as they break but have continual problems with broken spokes and keeping it true and round.

    I turn the bike upside down to straighten, which is pretty good to view sideways movement, but I keep getting lumps.

    Lately, I have upgraded to heavier duty spokes which so far are holding in, but my problem is more my ability in the art of straightening.

    LBSs charges by the hr, and will hardly get out of bed to treat my ugly ducking for less than $20 - every 6 weeks - this is unsustainable. New wheel has been a thought, but this is already a new one, only used on road and bike paths (not really hard terrain). I am still optimistic about upgrading my skills to get it right.

    Any clues/instructions/ links to resources appreciated. Also, have wondered if there are any tools /jigs that can be constructed/purchased at reasonable cost to make this task easier.

    Any help appreciated. 🙂

    First figure out whether the issue is roundness or trueness. Trueness is easy to fix, roundness harder to do properly (but then again, getting a wheel out of true is much mnore common than flat-spotting one).

    You've gotta learn to true them yourself. It takes very little time once you know what you're doing, and you can do it with the wheel on the bike. Once you true them back to perfect every day for a week or so, they'll be right for a long time.

    There's some good detail at:

    cyclingnews.comfix

    Failing that, I work for beer.

  3. You have wheel problems every 6 weeks???

    I'm no techo - but this seems pretty often to me. I have always used a
    road bike (the same one) for both training/racing and commuting (only
    'cause I have to tho, would love a dedicated commuter that I could
    fling around a bit...). I don't throw it around or anything, but only
    get the wheels trued by the LBS every 6-12 months. Again - I'm no techo
    or 'perfectionist' (I just don't have the time to spend lovingly
    caressing my top-of-the-line Sora groupset, or tickling my spoke
    nipples...), but NEEDING to true the wheel or fix spokes every 6 weeks
    just sounds wrong. Even with an extra 90+ kg riding above them...

    I would suggest looking closely at your wheel/rim choice, or looking
    closely at your riding technique (exactly how many potholes, etc, are
    you riding through??). And getting a proper mechanic to build/true your
    wheel (maybe you are making a small but important 'structural error'
    when replacing your spokes??).

    Best of luck,
    Absent Husband (who's *just* on the right side of 90kg...)

  4. Dee Dub said:

    My 'work' bike - commuter - has always had problems with back wheel.
    Partly self inflicted - I'm on the wrong side of 90kg. I replace
    spokes as they break but have continual problems with broken spokes and
    keeping it true and round.

    90+ here and I've had two instances of a spoke loosening up in 12+
    months. The first wheel of similar build did 2+ years of racing with no
    problems other than needing new bearings in the American Classic hubs.

    Quoted message said:

    LBSs charges by the hr, and will hardly get out of bed to treat my ugly
    ducking for less than $20 - every 6 weeks - this is unsustainable. New

    Sounds like you and your LBS need to learn how to get the tension
    correct on your spokes. I suck at wheel-anything but needing a true
    every 6 weeks is wrong unless you are riding cross country with them!
    Take them to another shop for a proper job or do it yourself after
    reading Sheldon Brown's www.sheldonbrown.com wisdom on the matter.

    Quoted message said:

    wheel has been a thought, but this is already a new one, only used on
    road and bike paths (not really hard terrain). I am still optimistic
    about upgrading my skills to get it right.

    Only roads and paths? No smashing into curbs? You need more or more even
    tension in your spokes. Only poorly built wheels will go out of true
    this quick (barring accidents of course).

    hippy

  5. Dee Dub said:

    Any clues/instructions/ links to resources appreciated. Also, have
    wondered if there are any tools /jigs that can be constructed/purchased
    at reasonable cost to make this task easier.

    Any help appreciated. 🙂

    I worked out a way of truing for roundness without purchasing stands etc
    the other weekend. I've got a vice on an old set of drawers. I put the
    wheel in the vice then moved the whole thing next to a wall so I could
    tell which areas were too close to the wall and which were too far. This
    worked much better for me than anything I ever achieved with the wheel
    in the frame.

    DaveB "king of the cheapskates"

  6. Dee Dub said:

    Looking for advice, physical or on-line resources.

    My 'work' bike - commuter - has always had problems with back wheel. Partly self inflicted - I'm on the wrong side of 90kg. I replace spokes as they break but have continual problems with broken spokes and keeping it true and round.

    I turn the bike upside down to straighten, which is pretty good to view sideways movement, but I keep getting lumps.

    Lately, I have upgraded to heavier duty spokes which so far are holding in, but my problem is more my ability in the art of straightening.

    LBSs charges by the hr, and will hardly get out of bed to treat my ugly ducking for less than $20 - every 6 weeks - this is unsustainable. New wheel has been a thought, but this is already a new one, only used on road and bike paths (not really hard terrain). I am still optimistic about upgrading my skills to get it right.

    Any clues/instructions/ links to resources appreciated. Also, have wondered if there are any tools /jigs that can be constructed/purchased at reasonable cost to make this task easier.

    Any help appreciated. 🙂

    As I see it, you have two problems: spoke breakage and spokes loosening. These _can_ be related, but don't have to be.

    You can reduce your spoke breakage problem by stress relieving your spokes. Use some gardening gloves and squeeze pairs of spokes together as hard as you can, about halfway up. Go all the way around, squeezing pairs of spokes really, really hard. If they break, they needed replacing anyway - you won't be able to break new spokes (unless you have the grip of a gorilla - I don't). This process helps reduce stress in the elbows of the spokes, reducing the chance they will break from fatigue.

    If your wheels go out of true without a breakage, then they are loosening as the spoke nipple unscrews itself off the spoke threads. This can happen in a couple of ways. First, you may have "spoke wind-up" - you turn the nipple with the wrench, but instead of advancing along the thread, it sticks and just twists the spoke. You start riding and eventually (or straight away), the vibration and repeated cycling of loading and unloading the spokes will untwist the spoke and throw your wheel out of true. You can reduce the incidence of spoke wind-up by oiling the spoke threads with your favourite lubricant. A useful tip is also to "overshoot" when tightening and then back-off. For example, if you want to tighten a quarter turn, you should tighten a half turn and then back off a quarter turn.

    Second, your spokes might not have been installed with enough tension... you need a lot of tension. In the absence of the right tool (tensiometer), I have three rules of thumb: (1) it has to be very difficult to tighten any further; (2) you hear an F when you pluck the spokes (a child's tenor recorder has an F that you can use). This is a pretty high note (around 440Hz), but it gets you in the neighbourhood of the right answer. (3) After you tension the spokes, stress relieve again. If the wheel stays true when you stress relieve, you tighten again until it doesn't - THEN you back off the tension to the last one that worked.

    Finally, get the "roundness" direction true first, then lateral. It might take a few iterations, but roundness takes more turns to adjust than lateral, so it makes sense to use lateral trueness as the fine tuning step.

    You'll need a spoke wrench and something to hold your wheel that you measure its trueness. I used a rim trainer with a couple of well placed rulers held on with sticky tape. Other people with more money opt for a truing stand.

    It isn't as complicated as it sounds, and the rec.bicycles.tech FAQ as well as www.sheldonbrown.com are _excellent_ resources.

    Happy truing! 🙂
    Ritch

  7. Thanks to all.

    Heaps of great info here. I'll be busy over the next few nights and weekends tweaking and twisting.

    Major issues are:
    quality of original purchase (LBS let me down here IMHO)
    quality of maint (soon to improve - MANY THANKS!)
    use - i don't treat the bike very hard at all compared to some I know.

    Many thanks for help and constructive input.

    Dee Dub

  8. "ritcho" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    ..........
    You'll need a spoke wrench and something to hold your wheel that you
    measure its trueness. I used a rim trainer with a couple of well placed
    rulers held on with sticky tape. Other people with more money opt for a
    truing stand.

    It isn't as complicated as it sounds, and the rec.bicycles.tech FAQ as
    well as www.sheldonbrown.com are _excellent_ resources.

    Happy truing! 🙂
    Ritch
    --
    ritcho


    I scored a set of 27" steel road forks from Rebel Sport for $2 in the
    bargain bin. I carefully spread them wide enough to accept a rear wheel
    (put them on ground, trod on one arm, pulled up the other). I then used a
    few reflector mounts and steel springs that I had in the shed to make my own
    "truing stand". It works pretty well and I do roundness by attaching a
    ruler with rubber bands to the forks and slowly sliding it up until the
    wheel starts to hit it.

    http://www.users.tpg.com.au/adsl4xun/Truing%20Stand.JPG

    Not very pretty but works pretty good and cost bugger all.

    Ride On,

    Gags

  9. Dee Dub said:

    Looking for advice, physical or on-line resources.

    My 'work' bike - commuter - has always had problems with back wheel. Partly self inflicted - I'm on the wrong side of 90kg. I replace spokes as they break but have continual problems with broken spokes and keeping it true and round.

    <snip>

    Any help appreciated. 🙂

    Something Absent Husband alluded to which may be causing you grief: the quality of rims is very variable on bikes sub-$1000. If the factory did a bad job on the wheel in the first place, no amount of tweaking will get it right once two or three spokes have gone. Your best recouse would be a tough rim, and a set of DT, Wheelsmith or Sapim spokes built to an even tension. The hub's probably alright, unless it's a steel 3-piece jobbie, in that case, throw the whole lot in the bin, get a Deore (or LX,XT) hub, a Velocity, Mavic, WTB, Ritchey OCR et c. freeride/all-mountain rim, and build the bugger up tight. 3 cross, nothing else. That should work for the foreseeable future. Oh, and learn to ride light.

    M"dogmatic"H

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