Help 'splain this one- chain sticks on 50 tooth...

Classic chainsuck and it can be from a worn chain or worn teeth on the ring that the chain is leaving(hook teeth hang onto the chain). If it happens at the same place everytime try filing the teeth down a wee bit, make them sharper, less hooked and thinner side to side.

I just saw this 'skating' problem with another specialized..chain doesn't go all the way to the small ring, 'skates' between the rings, same crank. I think the spacing between the rings is too large on this Specialized crank.

teamgomez said:

So as I'm finally thinking all the Campy shifting demons have been exorcised with the removal of a derailer cable that spun a strand and caused unwanted binding, the front end of the drivetrain locked up twice this am on shifts off the 'big ring' (compact) when the drivtrain was under minor/moderate load.

Each time I look down to see WTFO? and I see the the chain correctly on the inner ring (34 tooth) from the 12 to 6 o'clock and at the 9 o'clock position I see some chain still on the outer ring and now getting a bit friendly with the carbon face of my front derailer....

I have recently restrung the front derailer and didn't fuss with the stops (still get 4 clicks to shift from smaller to larger ring so not thinking it is a throw adjustment). Loaded the drivetrain a bit with the brakes tonite and performed some outboard/inboard shifts and the attached photo showswhat happened: a couple links in the chain are still on the outboard ring. Appears to happen only when the shift down doesn't land the chain precisely in the notches on the inner sprocket (you can see in the photo that the chain is riding 'on top' of the teeth at 6 o'clock). Chain/drivetrain has about 1700 miles and chain still specs good/very close to new.

BTW- nevermind the screwdriver if you see it...it's acting as my 3rd hand holding the sprocket in place...

Bite off another $75 chain or 😕

I'll bet the problem goes away (is fixed/resolved/whatever) if you simply buy a new 50t chainring ... BECAUSE, the 50t chainring on your crankset is NOT concentric!

BTW. It seems a bit odd that there are two (!?!) "registration" tabs on the inner circumference of the 34t chainring ...

There is a quality control issue at the factory that made those chainrings.

Buy a PAIR of Shimano chainrings ... '105' rings are good enough ... even OLDER, un-ramped & un-pinned, 90s vintage 50t-34t chainrings will work with your Campagnolo shifters.

BTW. If you need-or-want to, you can use a 9-speed Shimano chain with a 10-speed Campagnolo drivetrain.

alfeng said:

I'll bet the problem goes away (is fixed/resolved/whatever) if you simply buy a new 50t chainring ... BECAUSE, the 50t chainring on your crankset is NOT concentric!

BTW. It seems a bit odd that there are two (!?!) "registration" tabs on the inner circumference of the 34t chainring ...

There is a quality control issue at the factory that made those chainrings.

Buy a PAIR of Shimano chainrings ... '105' rings are good enough ... even OLDER, un-ramped & un-pinned, 90s vintage 50t-34t chainrings will work with your Campagnolo shifters.

BTW. If you need-or-want to, you can use a 9-speed Shimano chain with a 10-speed Campagnolo drivetrain.

Chainsuck...didn't know what to call it but sounds good (let me rephrase that....didn't sound good when it happened!)

Alfeng- can you pls clarify your 'not concentric' comment? Both radius (inner and outer rings) do not vary in lenth as the pedal completes 360 deg of rotation thus I believe both share the same axis...what am I missing? Spinning the crank produces two perfect circles, not offset...

Great to know about the 9sp Shimano option- thx for that information. Also- I noticed those two 'registration' tabs (disassembled the rings for cleaning last night...took photo so I'd know how the tabs aligned). What's their purpose? The Specialized website photo of a set of replacement chainrings shows the same two registration tabs on the smaller ring..

I'll see if a set of new rings does the trick. Did some online shoppin'- these fsa's seem to be a decent deal (http://www.jensonusa.com/store/product/CG287A01-Fsa+Super+Road+S10+Chainring+09.aspx) or I can replace with Specialized factory rings at same price- thoughts? thx guys!

~John

Better price and better shifting.

Went out for a Z2 ride and no chainsuck today...but I wasn't 'on the pedal' very hard. Got home and put my present chain next to a brand new CR chain...the present chain only has about 1/16" stretch at 12" (maybe a third of a link over the length) but what struck me was when I held them up side by side (looking thru the links where the teeth engage). I immediately noticed that I could see light btwn where the outer plates sandwich against the inners on the used chain/ and no light/gaps whatsoever on the new one...consequence here is that 1/2 length of chain will 'arc' to 90 degrees (holding chain on its 'side' and seeing how easily it 'bends'...like standing over your bike and arcing the chain outboard). New chain will only deflect/bend about 40 degrees.

Does this lateral link play exhibit any adverse conditions? Curious why it's not mentioned much (or if it has, I've missed it at SB's site or Park Tools). No mention of lateral specifications whatsoever...any thoughts?

teamgomez said:

Alfeng- can you pls clarify your 'not concentric' comment? Both radius (inner and outer rings) do not vary in lenth as the pedal completes 360 deg of rotation thus I believe both share the same axis...what am I missing? Spinning the crank produces two perfect circles, not offset...

FWIW. When I look at the second picture (above) of the crankset, I notice that the distance between the outer shoulders on the spider & the chainring bolts is not consistent -- there appears to be at least a 1mm variation which would theoretically result in at least a 1mm eccentric offset ... heck, another brand of chainrings might not even fit!

Also, the chainring bolt holes are not even centered on the ends of the spider's arms.

While one wouldn't think it would be enough to matter, I guess I would be inclined to conclude that it does because of the problem you described.

It would be good if you could borrow another complete crankset made by Campagnolo, FSA, of Shimano to see if you could eliminate the chainsuck problem BECAUSE I'm not sure whether or not someone at Specialized intentionally designed the crank & chainrings to look so haphazard or if the appearance is due to poor crafstmanship which has subsequently made the drivetrain shift so poorly.

alfeng said:

FWIW. When I look at the second picture (above) of the crankset, I notice that the distance between the outer shoulders on the spider & the chainring bolts is not consistent -- there appears to be at least a 1mm variation which would theoretically result in at least a 1mm eccentric offset ... heck, another brand of chainrings might not even fit!

Also, the chainring bolt holes are not even centered on the ends of the spider's arms.
.

Good obs, but the bolt holes are centered on the spider arms and the rings do spin in perfect 'circles'... unsure why the engineers offset the attach holes on the rings. As for the 2 registration tabs...jury still out on that one (LBS not sure either).

I put on a new record chain (had it in the drawer) and no chainsuck yesterday. I may roll in on a 105 ringset I see on craigslist locally to keep in case the chainsuck reappears.

teamgomez said:

Chainsuck...didn't know what to call it but sounds good (let me rephrase that....didn't sound good when it happened!)

Alfeng- can you pls clarify your 'not concentric' comment? Both radius (inner and outer rings) do not vary in lenth as the pedal completes 360 deg of rotation thus I believe both share the same axis...what am I missing? Spinning the crank produces two perfect circles, not offset...

Great to know about the 9sp Shimano option- thx for that information. Also- I noticed those two 'registration' tabs (disassembled the rings for cleaning last night...took photo so I'd know how the tabs aligned). What's their purpose? The Specialized website photo of a set of replacement chainrings shows the same two registration tabs on the smaller ring..

I'll see if a set of new rings does the trick. Did some online shoppin'- these fsa's seem to be a decent deal (FSA SUPER ROAD S10 CHAINRING '09 at JensonUSA.com) or I can replace with Specialized factory rings at same price- thoughts? thx guys!

~John

shimano rings are the best in terms of hardness, flatness and longevity. FSA/sram/truvativ are pretty soft. TA are also great rings.

In the hunt for some Shimano rings...kind of hard to find 110bcd compacts. A set off a new 105 crankset just sold for $90 on 'bay (some clod rolled in on a buy it now...bidding was at $60....)

The new chain makes for some good shifting; however, did get another chainsuck on Friday but I was crosschained on that one so I can't hold it against the bike.

FWIW- did my first ride on the Welier Dura-Ace 9 yesterday and I gotta say- the DA is like a 'fleet average' piece of arm-candy: no drama and she does what you ask. The Record stuff is like walking around with a trophy wife- great to ride but man is it a PITA to put up with!

teamgomez said:

I gotta say- the DA is like a 'fleet average' piece of arm-candy: no drama and she does what you ask. The Record stuff is like walking around with a trophy wife- great to ride but man is it a PITA to put up with!

That's likely a surprise to all of the people running Record that have done so for years without any issues. It's an easy system to put together and tune. Your problem is an N=1 sampling and is something that's happened with anything SRAM, as well as anything Shimano, including Dura Ace. Chain suck certainly isn't a common experience with Record. It's at least rare. I'm sure any Campy competent mechanic could sort it or at least diagnose what's wrong.

alienator said:

I'm sure any Campy competent mechanic could sort it or at least diagnose what's wrong.

I prefer to possess the technical acumen to take care of 95% of my own work...I would argue that anybody who can blind adjust the intake valve on the 5th cylinder for a 911 oughta be able to 'figure out' the technical specifications of a chainring, a chain, and a cog. Obviously I have not and unless the Campy competent mech has some italian fairy dust to sprinkle over the whole shebang to make a reliable and *not tempermental* drivetrain, I would prefer to drill down to the root cause and discover the causal factor in order to fix and get on with it.

My last soln' will be a new chainring- if that doesn't do it I'll make the forum a screamin' deal on a CR groupo (sans brakes....they absolutely ROCK!)

teamgomez said:

I prefer to possess the technical acumen to take care of 95% of my own work...I would argue that anybody who can blind adjust the intake valve on the 5th cylinder for a 911 oughta be able to 'figure out' the technical specifications of a chainring, a chain, and a cog. Obviously I have not and unless the Campy competent mech has some italian fairy dust to sprinkle over the whole shebang to make a reliable and *not tempermental* drivetrain, I would prefer to drill down to the root cause and discover the causal factor in order to fix and get on with it.

My last soln' will be a new chainring- if that doesn't do it I'll make the forum a screamin' deal on a CR groupo (sans brakes....they absolutely ROCK!)

Uhm, not really. One skill doesn't imply the other. At any rate chain suck does not equate a temperamental drivetrain. Campy is pretty much set and forget. Certainly, a Specialized crankset is not Campy's problem. Personally, I'd be pointing the negative vibes at Specialized and asking what it is about their crankset that is preventing it from working with Campy Record, a group not known for problems.

teamgomez said:

So as I'm finally thinking all the Campy shifting demons have been exorcised with the removal of a derailer cable that spun a strand and caused unwanted binding, the front end of the drivetrain locked up twice this am on shifts off the 'big ring' (compact) when the drivtrain was under minor/moderate load.

Each time I look down to see WTFO? and I see the the chain correctly on the inner ring (34 tooth) from the 12 to 6 o'clock and at the 9 o'clock position I see some chain still on the outer ring and now getting a bit friendly with the carbon face of my front derailer....

I have recently restrung the front derailer and didn't fuss with the stops (still get 4 clicks to shift from smaller to larger ring so not thinking it is a throw adjustment). Loaded the drivetrain a bit with the brakes tonite and performed some outboard/inboard shifts and the attached photo showswhat happened: a couple links in the chain are still on the outboard ring. Appears to happen only when the shift down doesn't land the chain precisely in the notches on the inner sprocket (you can see in the photo that the chain is riding 'on top' of the teeth at 6 o'clock). Chain/drivetrain has about 1700 miles and chain still specs good/very close to new.

Okay, I've said this before ... presuming a person doesn't have arthritis, the only two groups of people that I think shouldn't be doing their own wrenching are surgeons and hand models ...

Since you are apparently in neither category AND already inclined to doing your own wrenching, you have to analyze why you are one of the few people (OR, possibly, the only person other than the guy who originally set up your Specialized) who uses Campagnolo components who is having some difficulty with adjusting OR setting up the drivetrain.

FIRST, while you said you had "restrung" the front derailleur, did you replace the housing, too?

Since you claim to have a mechanical skill, that begs the question:
[INDENT]Would you continually use the same FUEL FILTER after you adjusted the jets on your carbs (or, replaced/cleaned the injectors for your fuel injection) OR would you (eventually) change it at some point in time?
[/INDENT]Due to your prolonged problems with your specific drivetrain, you should probably consider that the mechanic who originally set up your Specialized may not have been the-sharpest-knife-in-the-drawer and so you should presume that all of the consumable components are in need of being replaced -- when in doubt, throw it out.

I've mentioned this before:
[INDENT]While I 'understand' the theory behind using parallel stranded cable housing for the derailleur cables which BOTH Campagnolo & Shimano supply, I don't agree that any possible benefits with it outweigh the negatives ... plus, I find the parallel stranded housing to be quirky ... and subsequently, I generally replace it with generic BRAKE CABLE HOUSING.
[/INDENT]So, one thing you may want to consider is to unwrap the handlebar on the left and/or right side, and replace the current derailleur housing for the front derailleur cable and/or rear.

If the notion of using regular Brake Cable housing as a replacement for "factory" supplied Derailleur Cable housing doesn't ring true with you, then buy some NOKON cable housing.

As far as needing '4 clicks' to move the chain ... that is undoubtedly too many ...

The only bike that I have which needs 4-clicks to move the chain between the inner & outer chainrings is one on which I recently chose to install a 6-speed (circa 1979) Dura Ace front derailleur which had been collecting-dust-in-my-toolbox whose inner-and-outer plates are further apart than on an 8-/9-/10-speed front derailleur. My others use 3-clicks with a 6500-or-6503 Ultegra front derailleur & 9-speed Shimano chain ...

BTW. My last Campagnolo front derailleur was a circa 2000 Chorus for which I don't recall how many indexing clicks I needed, but 3 was probably the number ...

Presuming 3-clicks is the norm when using a Campagnolo front derailleur, then the fact that you are using 4-clicks to move the chain between chainrings indicates that SOMETHING is probably amiss.

If 4-clicks is the "norm" (!?!) then you may want to buy a 9-speed Shimano front derailleur to expedite the shifting.

So, who set up your Welier/(Wilier?)?

Did you, or did you let someone else set it up?

Was it set up with NEW-or-used "housing"/etc.?

Lots of good points, gents, first of which is getting on my EA for misspelling Wilier!

The restring of the front derailer was due to moving my cables from the aft exit on the grip to the forward exit (Barmac has a channel for them on the leading edge...preferred that to the aft route). Shortening the travel req'd pulling more cable thru the derailer but no stops were fussed with. The notice of 4 clicks was dependant upon how much 'preload' was placed on the cable prior to clamping it down. If I preload it a good deal, I can get it so the third click just gets it on the outer ring.

I'll have to stand corrected on the causal factor...pondering the whole affair makes perfect sense since Specialized equips their SL2's with DA/SRAM and not Campy...this makes the chainring prime suspect for my chainsuck issue. Getting another DA compact crankset this week and I'm going to try those rings out with the drivetrain.

As far as who set up the Wilier, no idea. The only stand adjustment I made was a few turns on the B screw to get the rollers totally clear of the 25 cog and the 50 mile debut team training ride was flawless (save for one whupped engine...). The bike appears to only have had setup miles on it (chain looked/felt like it still had factory lube on it...no scores whatsoever on the rear derailer rollers/cogs/teeth) and the DA 7700 behaved entirely as expected.

BTW- I'm going with the notion the Specialized was not set up by the Tour team tech...

I had chain suck issues in my MB a while back, replaced the crankset and chain and have never had this problem. I replaced the Truvativ with a Shimano.

teamgomez said:

The restring of the front derailer was due to moving my cables from the aft exit on the grip to the forward exit (Barmac has a channel for them on the leading edge...preferred that to the aft route). Shortening the travel req'd pulling more cable thru the derailer but no stops were fussed with. The notice of 4 clicks was dependant upon how much 'preload' was placed on the cable prior to clamping it down. If I preload it a good deal, I can get it so the third click just gets it on the outer ring.

I'll have to stand corrected on the causal factor...pondering the whole affair makes perfect sense since Specialized equips their SL2's with DA/SRAM and not Campy...this makes the chainring prime suspect for my chainsuck issue. Getting another DA compact crankset this week and I'm going to try those rings out with the drivetrain.

As far as who set up the Wilier, no idea. The only stand adjustment I made was a few turns on the B screw to get the rollers totally clear of the 25 cog and the 50 mile debut team training ride was flawless (save for one whupped engine...). The bike appears to only have had setup miles on it (chain looked/felt like it still had factory lube on it...no scores whatsoever on the rear derailer rollers/cogs/teeth) and the DA 7700 behaved entirely as expected.

BTW- I'm going with the notion the Specialized was not set up by the Tour team tech...

What CHAIN-type was originally used with your Campagnolo setup?

Is it possible that the original chain was a 10-speed SHIMANO-compatible chain left over from the presumed-to-orginally-have-been-Shimano drivetrain rather than a Campagnolo-compatible chain?

Is the new chain which you installed a 10-speed OR 11-speed chain?

Honestly, due to what can only be attributed to a failing memory on my part, I just don't remember needing 3+ index clicks to shift the front derailleur when using Campagnolo shifters + my c2000 Chorus front derailleur ... with the 9-speed, Ultegra 6500 front derailleur that I use, there are 2+ clicks to move the chain from the inner to the outer chainring.

Does it take everyone else '4' index clicks to shift the chain between chainrings when using a Campagnolo front derailleur & their Campagnolo shifters?!?

Despite what may be my poor memory, I still think that needing '4 clicks' to move the chain between chainrings is too many.

'old' chain and new chain are CR 10 sp narrows. Don't know how to get less than 4 clicks unless I really preload the derailer cable...

Is it taking 4 clicks to shift or does it shift in less? You might check this going from the small ring to the big. The chain should shift from the small to the large in 3 clicks. There'll be an extra click, making 4, that moves the RD cage all the way out. This gives you trim in the large ring. With the chain on the little ring, do you have tension on the FD cable?

I'd recheck the FD limits to be sure you're getting the maximal range of motion.

Before the FD cable is clamped in the FD, it's important that the thumb shifter for the FD be depressed repeatedly until it can no long be depressed. Then you can clamp the FD cable in the derailleur. It might be worth undoing the cable and starting from scratch, making sure the thumb shifter for the FD was depressed as much as possible and that the derailleur limits were set properly.

Got a new Shimano 105 compact chainset off the 'bay, threw it on (then realized I had to grind down the pin that keeps the chain from getting wedged btwn the crank arm and chainring). After grinding down the pin, was very happy to have a great, no shift-drama ride today. No ghost shifting, no chainsuck...that 105 ring shifts very nice.

And contrary to what the LBS/online retailers said...all who told me that 105 wouldn't work on the campy drivetrain.

Thanks, fellas! 😄😄😄