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Help on Tom Miller Spokes

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rec.sport.unicycling
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20 February 2005
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28 June 2005
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oxfordrider
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  1. I want to update to Tom Miller spokes on my coker. I have an airfoil and
    the UDC extrawide hub (100mm flange to flange). I called Tom yesterday
    and gave him the length off the spoke calculator for a 4 cross of
    14.892". Tom thinks the length should be 14 3/4" based on the wheels
    U-Turn builds. Does anyone have a number based on experience? Thanks
    for the input.

    --
    oxfordrider
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  2. If Tom and U-Turn don't know, nobody does.

    --
    bugman - Survivor 2004 Wolfman Duathalon

    -"Worried about rising sea levels? Move into the hills! I might be a
    hillbilly but when you're drinking saltwater in the 2nd floor of your
    beach condo, my mullet will be drier than a can of Skoal left open on a
    sunny day."- - maestro8

    -"The world is a dangerous place to live, not because of the people who
    are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it."- -
    Albert Einstein

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  3. oxfordrider said:

    *I want to update to Tom Miller spokes on my coker. I have an airfoil
    and the UDC extrawide hub (100mm flange to flange). I called Tom
    yesterday and gave him the length off the spoke calculator for a 4
    cross of 14.892". Tom thinks the length should be 14 3/4" based on
    the wheels U-Turn builds. Does anyone have a number based on
    experience? Thanks for the input. *

    Given the difference between 14.75 and 14.892 I'd say you're probably
    safe in either case. However, I'd go with Tom's suggestion for two
    reasons.

    1. He's the source of spokes for nearly all custom Coker wheelbuilds.

    2. With a slightly shorter spoke (assuming it'll still reach the spoke
    nipple) you run less risk of the spoke protruding into the tube and
    possibly causing a puncture.

    My only experience with Coker spokes was when I replaced my stock Coker
    hub with a wider (maybe UDC?) hub. I did not replace the spokes and
    everything fit just fine.

    Good luck with your project.

    -mg

    --
    mgrant - Ever hoping for the best!

    The sun is the same in a relative way but you're older, shorter of
    breath, and one day closer to death.
    michael_j_grant (at) yahoo (dot) com
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  4. oxfordrider said:

    *I want to update to Tom Miller spokes on my coker. I have an airfoil
    and the UDC extrawide hub (100mm flange to flange). I called Tom
    yesterday and gave him the length off the spoke calculator for a 4
    cross of 14.892". Tom thinks the length should be 14 3/4" based on
    the wheels U-Turn builds. Does anyone have a number based on
    experience? Thanks for the input. *

    Is U-Turn using the UDC superwide hub or a hub that Tom sells? When I
    talked to Tom, he mentioned that U-Turn had used his hub for some of the
    wheels that he built. If so, is the flange diameter different than the
    UDC hub?

    I also am ready to order spokes from Tom and want to make sure of the
    lenth of spokes considering the price.

    Cross 3 would use 14-1/2"
    Cross 4 would use 14.89"
    Based on spoke calculator

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    One on one - Geezer Unicyclists Of America

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  5. Help does anybody have numbers from personal experience?
    Thanks for your help.

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  6. Tom has more years of experience than all of us put together.

    --
    U-Turn - Member of Generation XO

    Weep in the dojo... laugh on the battlefield.

    '29er Tire Study' (http://u-turn.unicyclist.com/29erTireStudy/)

    'Strongest Coker Wheel in the World'
    (http://www.unicyclist.com/gallery/albup39)

    'New York Unicycle Club' (http://www.newyorkunicycle.com)

    -- Dave Stockton
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  7. Forget the spoke calculator. Tommi is correct:
    14 3/4 for cross-4 airfoil rim
    14 1/2 for cross-4 stock rim
    14 5/8 for cross-3 airfoil rim
    14 3/8 for cross-3 stock rim

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  8. unisk8r said:

    *Forget the spoke calculator. Tommi is correct:
    14 3/4 for cross-4 airfoil rim
    14 1/2 for cross-4 stock rim
    14 5/8 for cross-3 airfoil rim
    14 3/8 for cross-3 stock rim *

    Thank you for verifying that information. Very much appreciated.

    --
    One on one - Geezer Unicyclists Of America

    "I don't care who you are, that's funny!" Larry the Cable Guy
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  9. Thanks, Pete.

    For the Airfoil, the only one I know by experience is the 4-cross for
    the Airfoil and widened hub. The spoke calculator is way off on big
    wheels. It took me two sets of spokes to get Kris Holm's Coker.5
    correct, at $115 a set. Tom was great and gave me some return credit on
    the spokes that were too long. I had calculated their length using the
    spoke calculator. So, it's still the Wild, Wild West, though a little
    more domesticated now... you have to take risks, and yes, Tom is a guy
    that does excellent work.

    --
    U-Turn - Member of Generation XO

    Weep in the dojo... laugh on the battlefield.

    '29er Tire Study' (http://u-turn.unicyclist.com/29erTireStudy/)

    'Strongest Coker Wheel in the World'
    (http://www.unicyclist.com/gallery/albup39)

    'New York Unicycle Club' (http://www.newyorkunicycle.com)

    -- Dave Stockton
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  10. unisk8r said:

    *Forget the spoke calculator. Tommi is correct:
    14 3/4 for cross-4 airfoil rim
    14 1/2 for cross-4 stock rim
    14 5/8 for cross-3 airfoil rim
    14 3/8 for cross-3 stock rim *

    This shows *shorter* spokes for a stock coker rim than for a airfoil
    rim. But I thought the Airfoil used shorter spokes! (I think this
    because the deep v on the airfoil effectively reduces it's diameter; and
    because I hear the stock coker spokes can be used in the airfoil if you
    go from a 3x to a 4x pattern; and because the spoke calculators show the
    stock rim needing longer spokes).

    Help! Am I confused somehow? Or is this info wrong?

    --
    duaner - -

    duaner.
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  11. I agree these figures are definately duff. My guess is that you have
    them the wrong way around.

    The spoke calculator should not be wrong, it should be more accuarate
    with bigger wheels than with smaller wheels where there is another
    factor which is the bend in the spokes. There is one important thing to
    remember and that is that the dimensions are to the end of the nipple;
    but most wheel builders who I know prefer to build so that the spoke
    ends at the bottom of the slot of the nipple. So the calculation should
    be about 1.2mm long in most cases. If you want it accurate, you should
    check the imput figures with the hub and rim you have.

    Roger

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  12. Just been thinking, the ERD was created using 12 guage spokes, Tommi's
    are not! they are 14 guage. The rim is drilled for 12 so the 14 guage
    nipples being smaller will sit further in the holes and then give a
    different figure.

    Conclusion; check the erd using the nipples and spokes you intend to
    use.

    Roger

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  13. The Semcycle nipples, which should be used for this application, are 12
    gauge nipples but are tapped at 14 gauge. The Uni.com spoke calculator
    has been spot on for me, I cut and roll my own.

    --
    Dirtsurfer - One wheeled

    "All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us."
    Gandalf the gray
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  14. I recently built some Airfoil rim/UDC hub Coker wheels using Tommi's
    spokes and the Semcycle nipples. In addition, I used Sapim Spoke Washers
    between the nipples and rim, which increases the length spoke required
    by about 1/2 mm. I did not use any of the standard spoke calculators,
    but made my own measurements of the rim and hub. I consider a spoke the
    "correct" length when, under tension, the end of the spoke is flush with
    the bottom of the screwdriver slot in the nipple.

    For 3-cross, I ordered 14 7/16 spokes. They worked well and I would do
    it again. I think you'd be ok anywhere between 14 3/8-14 7/16ths.

    I later built a wheel for someone who already had a set of 14.710 spokes
    as 4-cross. They worked, but I considered them slightly short as some of
    the threads were visible adjacent to the nipple. If I did it again, I'd
    go with an even 14 3/4", but my personal preference is for 3-cross.

    I wouldn't worry about going slightly long and having the spoke protrude
    through the nipple and into the tube -- with the Airfoil rim, the tube
    doesn't really get anywhere near the nipple. The risk is that you run
    out of threads on the spoke before you reach a high enough tension.
    Tommi normally puts "extra" threads on his spokes above the standard
    10mm. The Semcycle nipples are long and require these extra threads.

    I really like the Semcycle nipples; the 12 gauge body lets you reach
    pretty high tensions compared to a bicycle wheel with less risk of
    rounding-off the nipple body. Since the rims are drilled for 12 gauge
    spokes, you really need these special nipples or some sort of washer. I
    tension the spokes at around 1900 Newtons.

    --
    adelman - What mud?
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  15. unisk8r said:

    *Forget the spoke calculator. Tommi is correct:
    14 3/4 for cross-4 airfoil rim
    14 1/2 for cross-4 stock rim
    14 5/8 for cross-3 airfoil rim
    14 3/8 for cross-3 stock rim *

    I just built a coker wheel with an airfoil rim and a UDC superwide hub
    with a three cross patern and used 14 1/2" spokes and they were almost
    too long. The spokes have probably only one more turn before hitting
    bottom 14 5/8" is too long. If I did it again I would go with 14 3/8 or
    14 7/16. I think if you use the spoke washers 14 1/2 would be perfect
    and if I need to I can allways redo my wheel with them, or go to a bike
    shop and have another thread turned onto the spokes.

    --
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  16. We have just had 4 wheels built up professionally with standard spokes
    and the new airfoil rim and the UDC wide Coker hub. The spoke
    calculator says that it should be 378mm and we used 375; the standard
    Coker spokes. The spokes are almost exactly 3mm below the top of the
    nipples which is well within tollerance being only about 1mm below the
    slot.

    Roger

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