Help me design a training program?

Quoted message said:

Pardon? What *are* you doing with your time?

In addition to running I also bike several days/week,
strength train and practice martial arts.

Quoted message said:

That's a rhetorial question, right?

Don't you do anything besides run?

Quoted message said:

<splutter>

Recovery? From running 4 days per week? Get real.

From running and the rest of the above mentioned activities.

Why are you being sarcastic? I realize I'm not the dedicated
runner you are but you don't have to be a jerk about it.

Dot wrote in message ...

Quoted message said:

Chris Hansen said:

Quoted message said:

It's better to focus on getting up to around 5x/week for
the same

duration.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

5x/week won't leave much time for other things. What if
you're trying to do things like biking, strength training
and martial arts in addition to running?

Depending upon what you are doing for these, you could bike
(or run) to/from work or do strength training while
dinner's cooking or watching tv (depending on what you're
doing for strength training) after a warmup run or bike,
bike/run to gym, bike to trailhead, then start running,
etc. There's lots of ways to save time.

Quoted message said:

I realize you won't excel at any one activity
when you do more things but how would you make the best
use of the time you have? I could get some running in 4
days per week but recovery might start to be an issue.

Recovery is an important issue that you'll have to figure
out how much your body can handle. Your total volume is
likely to be greater with the cross-training, but not
infinite - and it will change as your conditioning
improves.

Yes, excellent point.

Quoted message said:

You can still make lots of progress with 3 days running /
week (esp. if one is hills) and cross-training, depending
of course on what you're doing. How much you emphasize
running depends on your priorities of running faster or
longer vs doing more types of training. It's always
interesting trying to juggle schedules to accommodate the
various activities and rest of life 😉

I totally agree with this.

Quoted message said:

Dot

--
"Success is different things to different people" -Bernd
Heinrich in Racing the Antelope

"np426z" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Phil M." <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

One dark day on Usenet, "np426z"
<[email hidden]> said

news:cc0vvf

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

"Phil M." <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

> The essential thing in life is not so much conquering
> as fighting well.

Perhaps. Depends upon what you seek. Immortality, or a
comfy bed

for

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the night.

> Baron De Coubertin, founder of the modern Olympic
> Games

...and drunkard, egotist, elitist, and sychophant. How
come he's

only

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

remembered for his one success?

Not a bad accomplishment for a sychophant.

Au contraire. He started a devisive and (ultimately)
unfair event

between

Quoted message said:

nations and individuals who are prepared to lie, cheat and
'bend rules' -
i.e. do *anything* other than 'fight well'.

To suggest otherwise is to ignore the evidence of your own
eyes. The modern Olympics stink.

That is not the Baron's fault. His ideals have been
abandoned. I guess that you are as ardent about FDR.

steve common said:

Donovan Rebbechi said:

How you want to arrange your personal life is your
business, but if you want to take your running up a level,
you need to do it more often than 3 times a week.

...SNIP...

Quoted message said:

You will probably get faster over time even on 3x/week
base training,

What about something like this

Tuesday 15' up, drills, 10->15 x 30"/30" at vVO2max, 10'
down Thursday 15' up, 15->30' threshold, 10' down Sunday
Long run 1h30->2h30

interspersed with plenty of stretching, wouldn't you be
optimising your running time, rather than running 5x all
at base aerobic pace?

By the time you're up to 5x/week, you could make one of
those 5 a full blown speed workout. Note that your
program requires similar training time to about 40
minutes at 5x/week.

Quoted message said:

Or is that getting the paces right is the hard bit and so
to be avoided til you have some experience?

That amounts to an all-hard no-easy program -- could work
for some people (I doubt it, but it could), but I'm not
prepared to recommend it to a beginner who I've never met.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi pegasus.rutgers.edu~elflordOpen ↗

Chris Hansen said:

Quoted message said:

Recovery? From running 4 days per week? Get real.

From running and the rest of the above mentioned
activities.

Recovery is not just a function of training frequency. In
fact, spreading the same training load over several workouts
is *easier* on recovery, so *for a fixed training load*,
performing more workouts is easier.

Recovery is also a function of what you're actually doing in
those training sessions. The harder you train, the more
recovery you need. If you do base work + strides, you'll
recover quickly. If you do hard speed sessions, that's
harder on recovery. If you alternate hard running workouts
with hard strength training, you're going to end up
overtrained very quickly.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi pegasus.rutgers.edu~elflordOpen ↗

"Chris Hansen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Don't you do anything besides run?

Sometimes. I don't, however, bleat about how a diverse range
of interests compromises my life.

Quoted message said:

Why are you being sarcastic?

It's nothing personal. It's my job.

Quoted message said:

I realize I'm not the dedicated runner

Golly, I'd worked that one out for myself.

Quoted message said:

but you don't have to be a jerk about it.

I think I do. 'Being a jerk' is the first requirement in a
rec.running troll, followed by 'ability to mock', 'arrogant
and egotistic nature', and 'uncompromising tosspot'. I think
I meet all these requirement in full, don't you agree?

Donovan Rebbechi said:

By the time you're up to 5x/week, you could make one of
those 5 a full blown speed workout. Note that your
program requires similar training time to about 40
minutes at 5x/week.

Exactly my point. Same training time, less runs - ie minimal
impact on current organisation - yet more effective
(perhaps?)

Isn't it likely that the "two quality session per week"
approach would provide much quicker returns?

steve common said:

Donovan Rebbechi said:

By the time you're up to 5x/week, you could make one of
those 5 a full blown speed workout. Note that your program
requires similar training time to about 40 minutes at
5x/week.

Exactly my point. Same training time, less runs - ie
minimal impact on current organisation - yet more
effective (perhaps?)

Also more stressful. I mean, I could try running a 70 mile
ultra each week, with a few fast legs too, and that would
have "minimal impact on current organisation - yet more
effective (perhaps?)".

I don't advocate distributing a high training load over as
few workouts as possible. If you have less workout slots
available, you need to reduce training load. I would need
to go down to 50-60mpw if I had to get rid of 2-a-days,
for example.

Quoted message said:

Isn't it likely that the "two quality session per week"

Well, 3 if you count the long run. No easy sessions in
there.

Quoted message said:

approach would provide much quicker returns?

Quicker injuries too. And I doubt the performance
improvements would be that much quicker. He's running
just under 30 minutes for 5k. Do you think some steady
paced running would allow him to substantially improve on
that time, or is he that close to his genetic limitations
that he *needs* to do speed work twice a week ? Why the
hurry anyway ?

Also consider the motivation for the guy wanting to cram
this in was so he could participate in other sports. Do you
think he's going to rest on those other days ? No, he's
going to do weight training, martial arts, and cycling.
Where are the easy/recovery days in this scheme ? What do
you think is going to happen if he uses the same approach do
it as "hard as possible to save time" approach ?

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi pegasus.rutgers.edu~elflordOpen ↗

Virginiaz said:

<< What do you mean by "intervals" ? >>

intervals = alternate between maxed out pace and slower
recovery pace. as compared with steady same pace of
average ability.

is this accurate?

No

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi pegasus.rutgers.edu~elflordOpen ↗

Donovan's being awfully pithy today!

intervals are better described as faster paced or higher
intensity runs separated with recovery periods. The faster
pace does not necessarily mean "maxed out pace" however.

"Donovan Rebbechi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Virginiaz said:

<< What do you mean by "intervals" ? >>

intervals = alternate between maxed out pace and slower
recovery pace.

as

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

compared with steady same pace of average ability.

is this accurate?

No

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi pegasus.rutgers.edu~elflordOpen ↗

One dark day on Usenet, [email hidden] (Virginiaz) said
:"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

<< No >>

ah hm!? please enlighten me. or shall i Google again?

Oops. Sorry Donovan. Google for it also. Look for strides or
strideouts at

oogle.com/advanced_group_search?dq=&num=25&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-
8 &group=rec.running

Phil M.

--
The essential thing in life is not so much conquering as
fighting well.

Baron De Coubertin, founder of the modern Olympic Games

Virginiaz said:

<< No >>

ah hm!? please enlighten me. or shall i Google again?

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
You're catching on

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi pegasus.rutgers.edu~elflordOpen ↗

One dark day on Usenet, Donovan Rebbechi <[email hidden]> said
:"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Virginiaz said:

<< No >>

ah hm!? please enlighten me. or shall i Google again?

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
You're catching on

Cheers,

If we have to google everything, why have a newsgroup? Oh,
wait, I know. To promote our political agenda.

Phil M.

--
The essential thing in life is not so much conquering as
fighting well.

Baron De Coubertin, founder of the modern Olympic Games

Phil M. said:

One dark day on Usenet, Donovan Rebbechi <[email hidden]>
said :"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

On 2004-07-01, Virginiaz <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

<< No >>

ah hm!? please enlighten me. or shall i Google again?

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
You're catching on

Cheers,

If we have to google everything, why have a newsgroup?

So that you have a venue for whining about having to
use google.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi pegasus.rutgers.edu~elflordOpen ↗

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

If we have to google everything, why have a newsgroup?

So that you have a venue for whining about having to
use google.

Cheers,

I like it. Then I'll stay subscribed. ;-)

Phil M.

--
The essential thing in life is not so much conquering as
fighting well.

Baron De Coubertin, founder of the modern Olympic Games