Helmet saved me

Keyser Sose said:

You know what upset me most? Not one bloody person offered to help me other
than some other cyclists who were passing. Every motorists stared at the
bloody mess that was me yet not one of the [censored] offered to help. I have
seen the white van before. What should I do if I see him again and get the
reg number? Surely the police will say it's too late after the incident?

My bike is miraculously OK other than for the aforementioned left shifter
and some paintwork scratches and a rear wheel that needs to be trued.

1. report the incident and get a crime number (and the name of the
officer dealing with the case). You can then add the reg number when
you do see them again.

If you don't report it NOW then there is precious little chance of
anything being done.

...d

Keyser Sose said:

You know what upset me most? Not one bloody person offered to help me other
than some other cyclists who were passing. Every motorists stared at the
bloody mess that was me yet not one of the [censored] offered to help. I have
seen the white van before. What should I do if I see him again and get the
reg number? Surely the police will say it's too late after the incident?

Report the accident now. Get yourself checked by a doctor, and take
photographs of the injuries now and in a few days when the bruises have
developed. Get the bike checked by an LBS and keep a record of all the
expenses you have incurred as a result, including the damaged helmet.
When you see the van again go back to the police and give them the
number.

--
Dave...

Keyser Sose said:

Hi,
Further to my campag shifters question earlier, I was struck by white van
man's left mirror which pushed me onto a grass verge which was wet and
slippy. I managed to correct this only for a second before somersaulting
head first into the road. I am sitting here mid Saturday afternoon with a
bad headache, road rash all down my right side, a very bruised right wrist
and elbow, and a very dented Atmos helmet. Thank god - no blasphemy - that
I was wearing my helmet. I read these debates about helmets all the time,
however, make no mistake I really slammed my head into the tarmac. My wife
insists I should get checked out but I feel ok at the minute other than
slight headache. I only recently started to wear an helmet - at my wife's
insistence - since she became pregnant.

Hmm.

You need to be clear about what your helmet saved you from. It
certainly didn't "save your life" - and to cycle off believing it has
that capability is to be allowing yourself to fall into a very
dangerous delusion of invulnerability. It /may/ have saved you from a
worse headache or deeper cuts & bruises - unless you repeat the crash
as an unhelmeted control experiment, we will never know 🙂

I suppose the one thing you /can/ be sure that your hat saved you from
was a bollocking from your Mrs for not doing as you were told!

By the way, if you don't get the head medically checked then make sure
your Mrs keeps an eye on you and is aware of symptoms and dangers of
head injuries. Sounds like she doesn't have much faith in the hat she
insisted you wear.

Quoted message said:

You know what upset me most? Not one bloody person offered to help me other
than some other cyclists who were passing. Every motorists stared at the
bloody mess that was me yet not one of the [censored] offered to help. I have
seen the white van before. What should I do if I see him again and get the
reg number? Surely the police will say it's too late after the incident?

Nope. Report it in detail but don't hold out too much (any) hope of
police action without further evidence and witnesses. Depending on when
the crash happened, you /may/ be able to make a claim for your costs
against the MIB (or whatever the untraceable driver insurance body is
called these days).

Quoted message said:

My bike is miraculously OK other than for the aforementioned left shifter
and some paintwork scratches and a rear wheel that needs to be trued.

Cheers painfully,
Steve

"Not Responding" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

You need to be clear about what your helmet saved you from. It
certainly didn't "save your life"

Surely there is no certain proof either way?

Jc

in message <[email hidden]>, Keyser Sose ([email hidden]'😉
wrote:

[please don't take this as unsympathetic; I'm not. I'm very sorry to hear
of your incident]

Quoted message said:

Further to my campag shifters question earlier, I was struck by white van
man's left mirror which pushed me onto a grass verge which was wet and
slippy. I managed to correct this only for a second before somersaulting
head first into the road. I am sitting here mid Saturday afternoon with
a bad headache, road rash all down my right side, a very bruised right
wrist
and elbow, and a very dented Atmos helmet. Thank god - no blasphemy -
that
I was wearing my helmet. I read these debates about helmets all the
time,
however, make no mistake I really slammed my head into the tarmac.

I'm not going to argue with you. This isn't to say the helmet didn't help
you - it possibly did, a bit. But overall helmet wearers are more likely
to suffer serious injury than non helmet wearers. Specifically, drivers
pass an average of three inches closer to helmet wearers than to non
helmet wearers; if the white van had been three inches further away, would
he have hit you? If you had been riding in the primary riding position,
would he have knocked you onto the grass even if he had hit you?

Quoted message said:

My
wife insists I should get checked out but I feel ok at the minute other
than slight headache.

You should. That headache is probably nothing but it could be bleeding in
the brain. Go into casualty and get it checked.

Quoted message said:

You know what upset me most? Not one bloody person offered to help me
other
than some other cyclists who were passing. Every motorists stared at the
bloody mess that was me yet not one of the [censored] offered to help. I
have
seen the white van before. What should I do if I see him again and get
the
reg number? Surely the police will say it's too late after the incident?

No. If you can positively identify the van as the same van (so that you
could swear to it), then that's usable evidence. You should make a
complaint to the police now, stating clearly that you recognised the van
as one you regularly see and can recognise again; then, when you get the
number, go and see them again.

Quoted message said:

My bike is miraculously OK other than for the aforementioned left shifter
and some paintwork scratches and a rear wheel that needs to be trued.

Take it down the bike shop and get it checked for true. Be particularly
careful of any carbon fibre parts, because carbon fibre can suffer
internal damage which does not show on the surface of the part. If in
doubt, replace.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
Ye hypocrites! are these your pranks? To murder men and give God thanks?
Desist, for shame! Proceed no further: God won't accept your thanks for
murther
-- Robert Burns, 'Thanksgiving For a National Victory'

Josey' nospam@josey said:

"Not Responding" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

You need to be clear about what your helmet saved you from. It
certainly didn't "save your life"

Surely there is no certain proof either way?

Exactly my thoughts.

Josey' nospam@josey said:

"Not Responding" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

You need to be clear about what your helmet saved you from. It
certainly didn't "save your life"

Surely there is no certain proof either way?

Ask the original poster to repeat the incident without a helmet.

"Simon Brooke" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Specifically, drivers
pass an average of three inches closer to helmet wearers than to non
helmet wearers

Hey that's really interesting - what's the source of the information?

Jc

"Josey" <nospam@josey> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Simon Brooke" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Specifically, drivers
pass an average of three inches closer to helmet wearers than to non
helmet wearers

Hey that's really interesting - what's the source of the information?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/somerset/5334208.stm

Cheers,
Pete

Josey said:

"Not Responding" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

You need to be clear about what your helmet saved you from. It
certainly didn't "save your life"

Surely there is no certain proof either way?

Indeed, you are correct - I missed out the rather crucial word
"almost"; "It *almost* certainly didn't "save your life"".

Josey wrote on 23/09/2006 17:32 +0100:

Quoted message said:

"Not Responding" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

You need to be clear about what your helmet saved you from. It
certainly didn't "save your life"

Surely there is no certain proof either way?

You can be pretty sure though that it didn't. The logic is that if the
frequency with which this accident happens and helmeted cyclists claim
that the helmet saved them from serious injury/death were carried across
into the non-helmeted cyclist population (about 75% of them at the
moment) we would be seeing a very large number of cyclists with serious
head injuries or dead. For example it has been claimed several times
this year by various posters but I am not aware of a single one of the
cyclists here who rides without a helmet suffering a serious head injury
or being killed for as long as I've been on this list (about ten years).

So the only logical conclusions are either it is improbable that the
helmet saved their life or head or there is something about the way
helmeted cyclists ride that makes them uniquely prone to this sort of
accident.

--
Tony

"Anyone who conducts an argument by appealing to authority is not using
his intelligence; he is just using his memory."
- Leonardo da Vinci

in message <[email hidden]>, Josey

('nospam@josey') said:

"Simon Brooke" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Specifically, drivers
pass an average of three inches closer to helmet wearers than to non
helmet wearers

Hey that's really interesting - what's the source of the information?

Study done at Bath University, not yet published
http://www.bath.ac.uk/news/articles/archive/overtaking110906.html

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
"This young man has not the faintest idea how socialists think and does
not begin to understand the mentality of the party he has been elected
to lead. He is quite simply a liberal"
-- Ken Coates MEP (Lab) of Tony Blair

in message <[email hidden]>, Josey

('nospam@josey') said:

"Not Responding" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

You need to be clear about what your helmet saved you from. It
certainly didn't "save your life"

Surely there is no certain proof either way?

The strength and resilience of a cycle helmet is vastly less than the
strength and resilience of the human skull and meninges, which have
evolved over millions of years to cope with falls of roughly this
magnitude. There almost certainly are individual cases where the extra
shock absorption of a helmet made the difference between life and death,
but over all helmet wearers are slightly more likely to suffer death or
serious injury than non-helmet wearers. Why isn't clear. It may be that
helmet wearers are more likely to have crashes (as the recent Bath
University study suggests), or it may be that helmets aggravate some
injuries (for example some authorities believe they may provoke rotational
injury, which causes the most severe brain damage).

Helmets do help mitigate grazes and bruising in low speed impacts, however.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; better than your average performing pineapple

On Sat, 23 Sep 2006 19:33:59 +0100, Tony Raven <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Josey wrote on 23/09/2006 17:32 +0100:

Quoted message said:

"Not Responding" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

You need to be clear about what your helmet saved you from. It
certainly didn't "save your life"

Surely there is no certain proof either way?

You can be pretty sure though that it didn't. The logic is that if the
frequency with which this accident happens and helmeted cyclists claim
that the helmet saved them from serious injury/death were carried across
into the non-helmeted cyclist population (about 75% of them at the
moment) we would be seeing a very large number of cyclists with serious
head injuries or dead. For example it has been claimed several times
this year by various posters but I am not aware of a single one of the
cyclists here who rides without a helmet suffering a serious head injury
or being killed for as long as I've been on this list (about ten years).

Ah, your newsfeed must be a bit out of synch:

Squashme said:

I was speaking to a bloke in a shop today, about this and that and
cycling, when he showed me the scars on the back and side of his head
from a few years back. A motorist had cut him up in traffic, and the
cyclist had sworn at him, and pedalled on. He stopped at the lights and
next thing he knew, he felt a strange sensation and was lying in the
gutter. Aggrieved motorist, in righteous anger, had lammed him with a
steering-wheel lock (he thinks).

Friends said "Why weren't you wearing your helmet?"

Obvious, isn't it; the cause of his head injury was not wearing a
magic foam hat

"Tony Raven" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Not yet but there is a more detailed exposition at:
http://www.drianwalker.com/overtaking/overtakingprobrief.pdf

Thanks.

Jc.

On Sat, 23 Sep 2006 17:32:03 +0100 someone who may be "Josey"
<nospam@josey> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

You need to be clear about what your helmet saved you from. It
certainly didn't "save your life"

Surely there is no certain proof either way?

Indeed. However, a few years ago a motorist struck a cyclist near
Edinburgh with his left wing mirror. The helmet the cyclist was
wearing did not save his life.

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

Upon the miasma of midnight, a darkling spirit identified as Tony Raven
<[email hidden]> gently breathed:

Quoted message said:

So the only logical conclusions are either it is improbable that the
helmet saved their life or head or there is something about the way
helmeted cyclists ride that makes them uniquely prone to this sort of
accident.

Or that risk compensation by motorists leads to helmeted cyclists
suffering more accidents than helmet-free ones.

I don't wear a helmet. I've not come off a bike in a long time, but on
the few occasions when I did, I've never banged my head on anything.
Tends to be sore on hands, knees, shins, etc though.

Before this descends into an all out helmet war though, I agree with the
OP that it really is shocking that no-one stopped to help.

--
- DJ Pyromancer, The Sunday Goth Social, Leeds. <http://www.sheepish.net>

Broadband, Dialup, Domains = <http://www.wytches.net> = The UK's Pagan ISP!
<http://www.inkubus-sukkubus.co.uk> <http://www.revival.stormshadow.com>

Pyromancer said:

Upon the miasma of midnight, a darkling spirit identified as Tony Raven
<[email hidden]> gently breathed:

Quoted message said:

So the only logical conclusions are either it is improbable that the
helmet saved their life or head or there is something about the way
helmeted cyclists ride that makes them uniquely prone to this sort of
accident.

Or that risk compensation by motorists leads to helmeted cyclists
suffering more accidents than helmet-free ones.

It was not a good ride today :-(
One of our number slammed on the anchors and came off on a rh bend on a damp
country lane. A car was coming the other way but stopped in time, as the rider
slid on the road towards it.
The bike was an Airnimal with disc brakes and a large bag on the front (which
may IMO have affected handling ).
The rider suffered a bang to the head, some grazing, and was stretchered off
to hospital in an ambulance, probably for at least an overnight stay. I really
hope it was nothing worse, but we finished the ride in silence.

I was at the back of the group and didn't really see what happened, but
earlier in the day the rider was *very* vociferous in promoting helmets and
hi-viz.
so why was it *this* rder who crashed.
i don't know, but I really do wonder (even more than before) if helmets give a
sense of false security - even subconciously.

Quoted message said:

I don't wear a helmet.

Nor do I, and this won't change my mind at all.
In fact it strengthens my choice.

John B

in message <[email hidden]>, Pyromancer

(') said:

Quoted message said:

So the only logical conclusions are either it is improbable that the
helmet saved their life or head or there is something about the way
helmeted cyclists ride that makes them uniquely prone to this sort of
accident.

Or that risk compensation by motorists leads to helmeted cyclists
suffering more accidents than helmet-free ones.

I don't wear a helmet.  I've not come off a bike in a long time, but on
the few occasions when I did, I've never banged my head on anything.
Tends to be sore on hands, knees, shins, etc though.

Be careful about saying that. This time last year I was saying (honestly)
that I hadn't fallen off a road bike (except low speed prat falls) in
thirty years. And then I did...

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; It appears that /dev/null is a conforming XSL processor.