Helmet Question

On Thu, 25 Nov 2004 17:31:13 +0000 (UTC),

Graham Dean said:

I choose not to wear a helmet at the moment - am I being just plain stupid
in choosing not to?

Almost definitely not.

How long have you been riding? How many serious head injuries have you had?

Quoted message said:

It's seems intuitively correct to say a helmet would help
in some way - am I just plain wrong?

Well there is no doubt that helmets provide some protection for low
speed impacts with stationary objects (like the ground). Unfortunately
these type of impacts don't (in the main) cause any head injuries that
require hospital treatment anyway. In impacts with big, heavy, fast
objects like cars and lorries the helmet will not do much at all.
There may be a very small envelope where wearing a helmet may prevent an
injury. On the other hand there may be more common scenarios where wearing
a helmet may actually cause worse injuries than you would have received if
you hadn't been wearing a helmt.

--
Andy Leighton => [email hidden]
"The Lord is my shepherd, but we still lost the sheep dog trials"
- Robert Rankin, _They Came And Ate Us_

"Graham Dean" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I've been following the various threads relating to helmets recently. A
genuine question driven by curiousity - much of the debate seems to
revolve
around the 'mandating helmets will decrease cycling, with subsequent
health
consequences' arguments. However, being spectacularly selfish, I'm only
thinking about me - I'll cycle whether I'm forced to wear a helmet or not.
I
choose not to wear a helmet at the moment - am I being just plain stupid
in
choosing not to? It's seems intuitively correct to say a helmet would help
in some way - am I just plain wrong? Are there studies which cast doubt on
the effectivness of helmet wearing from the singular perspective?

It's a decision you make every time you go out. And you don't wear one, do
you feel that you are stupid? Do you feel that it would help in an accident?
They are questions only you can answer.

Just don't make it mandatory. Otherwise I'm changing religion, and will
pretend my buff is a turban.

"Graham Dean" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I've been following the various threads relating to helmets recently. A
genuine question driven by curiousity - much of the debate seems to

revolve

Quoted message said:

around the 'mandating helmets will decrease cycling, with subsequent

health

Quoted message said:

consequences' arguments. However, being spectacularly selfish, I'm only
thinking about me - I'll cycle whether I'm forced to wear a helmet or not.

I

Quoted message said:

choose not to wear a helmet at the moment - am I being just plain stupid

in

Quoted message said:

choosing not to? It's seems intuitively correct to say a helmet would help
in some way - am I just plain wrong? Are there studies which cast doubt on
the effectivness of helmet wearing from the singular perspective?

Here we go..........

Pete :-)

Graham Dean said:

I've been following the various threads relating to helmets recently.
A genuine question driven by curiousity - much of the debate seems to
revolve around the 'mandating helmets will decrease cycling, with
subsequent health consequences' arguments. However, being
spectacularly selfish, I'm only thinking about me - I'll cycle
whether I'm forced to wear a helmet or not. I choose not to wear a
helmet at the moment - am I being just plain stupid in choosing not
to? It's seems intuitively correct to say a helmet would help in some
way - am I just plain wrong? Are there studies which cast doubt on
the effectivness of helmet wearing from the singular perspective?

Taking the view you are genuine and not yet another helmet troll...

http://www.cyclehelmets.org/mf.html#1005

--
NC - Webmaster for http://www.2mm.org.uk/
Replies to newsgroup postings to the newsgroup please.

Graham Dean said:

I've been following the various threads relating to helmets recently. A
genuine question driven by curiousity - much of the debate seems to revolve
around the 'mandating helmets will decrease cycling, with subsequent health
consequences' arguments.

That is one of the arguments against helmet laws - another being that
they simply don't work ;-)

Quoted message said:

However, being spectacularly selfish, I'm only
thinking about me - I'll cycle whether I'm forced to wear a helmet or not. I
choose not to wear a helmet at the moment - am I being just plain stupid in
choosing not to?

No.

Quoted message said:

It's seems intuitively correct to say a helmet would help
in some way - am I just plain wrong? Are there studies which cast doubt on
the effectivness of helmet wearing from the singular perspective?

A population is a collection of individuals. On average those
individuals are no less likely to suffer serious head injury when
wearing a helmet. Incidence of trivial head injury may well be
reduced.

What you really need is to know in advance precisely what sort of
accident you are about to have...

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University

Just zis Guy, you know? vaguely muttered something like ...

Quoted message said:

What you really need is to know in advance precisely what sort of
accident you are about to have...

<cue twilight zone music>

--
Paul ...
(8(|) Homer Rules !!!
"A [censored] is a [censored], no matter what mode of transport they're using."

NC said:

Graham Dean said:

I've been following the various threads relating to helmets recently.
A genuine question .....

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

.....It's seems intuitively correct to say a helmet would help in some
way - am I just plain wrong? Are there studies which cast doubt on
the effectivness of helmet wearing from the singular perspective?

Taking the view you are genuine and not yet another helmet troll...

Or a BeHiT plant.

John B

"Graham Dean" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

It's seems intuitively correct to say a helmet would help
in some way - am I just plain wrong? Are there studies which cast doubt
on
the effectivness of helmet wearing from the singular perspective?

I was interested to watch a program about motor racing safety the other
night. Apparently Ayrton Senna was killed by a wheel hitting his head. His
helmet obviously worked then...

A lot of drivers are killed by neck fractures which is why the HANS device
has come along.

The conclusion I draw is that helmets are a) a good way of keeping the
flies off, b) a better way of attaching the HANS to the head than fitting
bolts through the skull.

No, no troll or plant. Just interested!

"JohnB" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

NC said:

Graham Dean said:

I've been following the various threads relating to helmets recently.
A genuine question .....

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

.....It's seems intuitively correct to say a helmet would help in some
way - am I just plain wrong? Are there studies which cast doubt on
the effectivness of helmet wearing from the singular perspective?

Taking the view you are genuine and not yet another helmet troll...

Or a BeHiT plant.

John B

Pooter <nospam_a@t_nospam.com> whizzed past me shouting

Quoted message said:

The conclusion I draw is that helmets are a) a good way of keeping the
flies off,

Whereas a wasp trapped inside your helmet...

--
Sue ];(🙂

Which is compulsory, and which illegal, out of cannabis cigarettes and bike lights?

Pooter said:

I was interested to watch a program about motor racing safety the
other night. Apparently Ayrton Senna was killed by a wheel hitting
his head. His helmet obviously worked then...

IIRC he was killed by the sharp end of a borken-off suspension component
penetrating:

a. his helmet, and
b. his skull

Not something which helmets of any variety are designed to cope with. Apart
from the fatal one, Senna suffered no other injuries.

Mike Spence was killed by a wheel hitting his head, but that was in 1968
when motor racing helmets were rather less sophisticated than they are now.

--

Dave Larrington - http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/
World Domination?
Just find a world that's into that kind of thing, then chain to the
floor and walk up and down on it in high heels. (Mr. Sunshine)

Graham Dean said:

I
choose not to wear a helmet at the moment - am I being just plain stupid in
choosing not to?

My reading of the evidence is that helmet wearing is just such a trivial
irrelevance in terms of injury prevention, that their effects cannot be
measured in any real-world studies. It's a bit like agonising over
whether red or black handlebar tape is safer, or whether to have a
shower or a bath tonight. There must be more important things to worry
about!

James
--
If I have seen further than others, it is
by treading on the toes of giants.
http://www.ne.jp/asahi/julesandjames/home/

Graham Dean said:

However, being spectacularly selfish, I'm only
thinking about me - I'll cycle whether I'm forced to wear a helmet or not. I
choose not to wear a helmet at the moment - am I being just plain stupid in
choosing not to?

It depends what you're looking to achieve. If you want to mitigate the
already low chances of a graze and a headache if you crash in such a way
as to hit your head in a relatively unserious accident, then you'd
probably be better off wearing a lid.
If you wish to improve your chances against death or serious injury
there's no real evidence they help at that, in the same way that a tough
leather jacket good to protect you from stray duckshot won't really help
against targeted rifle fire.

Quoted message said:

It's seems intuitively correct to say a helmet would help
in some way - am I just plain wrong? Are there studies which cast doubt on
the effectivness of helmet wearing from the singular perspective?

It is intuitive, like you say, but it's also intuitive that the Earth is
flat and stationary. Try this for size:

"Referring back to the Court case mentioned early, the very eminent QC
under whose instruction I was privileged to work, tried repeatedly to
persuade the equally eminent neurosurgeons acting for either side, and
the technical expert, to state that one must be safer wearing a helmet
than without. All three refused to so do, stating that they had seen
severe brain damage and fatal injury both with and without cycle helmets
being worn. In their view, the performance of cycle helmets is much too
complex a subject for such a sweeping claim to be made."

That's a quote from Brian Walker, one of the leading experts on the
mechanics of helmets, and whose company Head Protection Evaluations is
the principal UK test laboratory for helmets and head protection systems
of all kinds.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/