Hello DA 7800, goodbye $$$$...

basjan' may have said:

Just got the latest Colorado Cyclist catalogue - the new DA 7800 parts are pretty expensive! Except
for the rear derailleur, and 10v chain, all 7800 parts exceed current Record. The shifters are
about $130 more than Record, while the crankset is $150 more (granted the BB might be included with
DA). Where do they come up with a $100+ tag on the front hub???

You want bleeding-edge, you gotta bleed...

Just think, in 6 or 7 years, copies of that stuff will be on bikes at Wal-Mart.

(I think I can wait, after looking at the price tags...)

--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail. Yes, I have a killfile. If I
don't respond to something, it's also possible that I'm busy.

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Just got the latest Colorado Cyclist catalogue - the new DA 7800 parts are pretty expensive!
Except for the rear derailleur, and 10v chain, all 7800 parts exceed current Record. The shifters
are about $130 more than Record, while the crankset is $150 more (granted the BB might be included
with DA). Where do they come up with a $100+ tag on the front hub???

Does this spell bad things pricewise for the '04 Record?

"Bad"? That depends on which side of the cash register you're on. ;-)

Rick

Oversized axle on the hub. Theoretically stiffer steering and control.

-kurd

"Werehatrack" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

basjan' may have said:

Just got the latest Colorado Cyclist catalogue - the new DA 7800 parts

are

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

pretty expensive! Except for the rear derailleur, and 10v chain, all

7800

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

parts exceed current Record. The shifters are about $130 more than

Record,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

while the crankset is $150 more (granted the BB might be included with

DA).

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Where do they come up with a $100+ tag on the front hub???

You want bleeding-edge, you gotta bleed...

Just think, in 6 or 7 years, copies of that stuff will be on bikes at Wal-Mart.

(I think I can wait, after looking at the price tags...)

--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail. Yes, I have a killfile. If I
don't respond to something, it's also possible that I'm busy.

Kurd said:

Oversized axle on the hub. Theoretically stiffer steering and control.

That's worth $100, for sure.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | Become MicroSoft-free forever. Ask me how. _`\(,_ | (_)/ (_) |

$100 to have your axle the same size as a $300 Haro "bmx" bike. Absoltuly worth it.

-kurd

"David L. Johnson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Kurd said:

Oversized axle on the hub. Theoretically stiffer steering and control.

That's worth $100, for sure.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | Become MicroSoft-free forever. Ask me how. _`\(,_ | (_)/ (_) |

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Just got the latest Colorado Cyclist catalogue - the new DA 7800 parts are pretty expensive! Except
for the rear derailleur, and 10v chain, all 7800 parts exceed current Record. The shifters are
about $130 more than Record, while the crankset is $150 more (granted the BB might be included with
DA). Where do they come up with a $100+ tag on the front hub???

Does this spell bad things pricewise for the '04 Record?

Give it some time and the prices will come down. Same thing happened when the 7700 parts first
came out. If you wanna be the first on your block with the parts, you gotta be prepared to pay the
high price.
-----------------
Alex __O _-\<,_ (_)/ (_)

basjan said:

Just got the latest Colorado Cyclist catalogue - the new DA 7800 parts are pretty expensive!
Except for the rear derailleur, and 10v chain, all 7800 parts exceed current Record. The shifters
are about $130 more than Record, while the crankset is $150 more (granted the BB might be included
with DA). Where do they come up with a $100+ tag on the front hub???

Shimano determine their pricing not by cost to manufacture, but by what the market will bear.

Shimano determine their pricing not by cost to manufacture, but by what the market will bear.

Shimano determine their pricing not by cost to manufacture, but by what the market will bear.

Got it?

Quoted message said:

Does this spell bad things pricewise for the '04 Record?

Campagnolo determine their pricing not by cost to manufacture, but by what the market will bear.
Extrapolate for yourself.

Suntour priced their products according to their cost to manufacture. Thus their high-end products
were both superior to, and cheaper than, their counterparts from Shimano and Campagnolo. Because
Suntour's best was less expensive, buyers bought Shimano or Campagnolo instead.

Moral: Buyers of "premium" products _want_ to pay too much for them, because how much they value a
thing is predicated on how much the thing costs.

Shimano took this lesson deeply to heart, and the Dura Ace line represents their best guess as to
how much the biggest suckers in the bike market are willing to fork over.

Chalo Colina

The pricing on DA 7800 stuff may be the final straw that pushes me to the Campy camp. That and the
idea the new cassettes may not fit on 9 speed hubs and 9 speed cassettes may not fit on 10 speed
hubs. Not sure if that is true but it might be.

"Alex Rodriguez" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Just got the latest Colorado Cyclist catalogue - the new DA 7800 parts

are

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

pretty expensive! Except for the rear derailleur, and 10v chain, all

7800

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

parts exceed current Record. The shifters are about $130 more than

Record,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

while the crankset is $150 more (granted the BB might be included with

DA).

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Where do they come up with a $100+ tag on the front hub???

Does this spell bad things pricewise for the '04 Record?

Give it some time and the prices will come down. Same thing happened

when

Quoted message said:

the 7700 parts first came out. If you wanna be the first on your block with the parts, you gotta
be prepared to pay the high price.
-----------------
Alex __O _-\<,_ (_)/ (_)

"Alex Rodriguez" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Just got the latest Colorado Cyclist catalogue - the new DA 7800 parts

are

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

pretty expensive! Except for the rear derailleur, and 10v chain, all

7800

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

parts exceed current Record. The shifters are about $130 more than

Record,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

while the crankset is $150 more (granted the BB might be included with

DA).

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Where do they come up with a $100+ tag on the front hub???

Does this spell bad things pricewise for the '04 Record?

Give it some time and the prices will come down. Same thing happened

when

Quoted message said:

the 7700 parts first came out. If you wanna be the first on your block with the parts, you gotta
be prepared to pay the high price.
-----------------
Alex __O _-\<,_ (_)/ (_)

According to our marketing and metallurgic research, the first of the new Dura Ace parts that arrive
in the country are substantially different than those produced from mid-life to end of sales cycle.
The first arrived parts last longer, run smoother and retain their new part smell for almost a full
year longer. Whatever the microscopic price difference may be, the first run parts are more
desirable.

From a racer's standpoint, the sheer intimidation of new Dura Ace on the start line is a monstrous
advantage. As a serious racer, it is my duty to acquire the newest now.

Of course, nothing will be set in stone until after Interbike is over. Does anyone know additional
details about the choice of colors for the shifter hoods and lettering on the cranks?

Bruce

Raymo853 said:

The pricing on DA 7800 stuff may be the final straw that pushes me to the Campy camp.

And what makes you think that Campy's new prices will stay where they are? I have heard that 2004
Record will be around $2K! For myself, I'm going to stay with my 9 speed DA for a while.

Tim McTeague

Look at the cassette ratios-same as last year but more in between gears. you think we coulda got a
12-30 if the triple got dropped. Sorry I ain't no climber. Tom

--
Bruni Bicycles "Where art meets science" brunibicycles.com
410.426.3420 Bruce Gilbert <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Alex Rodriguez" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Just got the latest Colorado Cyclist catalogue - the new DA 7800 parts

are

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

pretty expensive! Except for the rear derailleur, and 10v chain, all

7800

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

parts exceed current Record. The shifters are about $130 more than

Record,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

while the crankset is $150 more (granted the BB might be included with

DA).

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Where do they come up with a $100+ tag on the front hub???

Does this spell bad things pricewise for the '04 Record?

Give it some time and the prices will come down. Same thing happened

when

Quoted message said:

the 7700 parts first came out. If you wanna be the first on your block with the parts, you gotta
be prepared to pay the high price.
-----------------
Alex __O _-\<,_ (_)/ (_)

According to our marketing and metallurgic research, the first of the new Dura Ace parts that
arrive in the country are substantially different than those produced from mid-life to end of
sales cycle. The first arrived

parts

Quoted message said:

last longer, run smoother and retain their new part smell for almost a

full

Quoted message said:

year longer. Whatever the microscopic price difference may be, the first

run

Quoted message said:

parts are more desirable.

From a racer's standpoint, the sheer intimidation of new Dura Ace on the start line is a monstrous
advantage. As a serious racer, it is my duty to acquire the newest now.

Of course, nothing will be set in stone until after Interbike is over.

Does

Quoted message said:

anyone know additional details about the choice of colors for the shifter hoods and lettering on
the cranks?

Bruce

12-30?

I'm still making do with 12-23.

Scott "Bruni" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Look at the cassette ratios-same as last year but more in between gears.

you

Quoted message said:

think we coulda got a 12-30 if the triple got dropped. Sorry I ain't no climber. Tom

--
Bruni Bicycles "Where art meets science" brunibicycles.com
410.426.3420 Bruce Gilbert <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Alex Rodriguez" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...
>
>
>Just got the latest Colorado Cyclist catalogue - the new DA 7800

parts

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

are

Quoted message said:

>pretty expensive! Except for the rear derailleur, and 10v chain, all

7800

Quoted message said:

>parts exceed current Record. The shifters are about $130 more than

Record,

Quoted message said:

>while the crankset is $150 more (granted the BB might be included

with

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

DA).

Quoted message said:

>Where do they come up with a $100+ tag on the front hub???
>
>Does this spell bad things pricewise for the '04 Record?

Give it some time and the prices will come down. Same thing happened

when

Quoted message said:

the 7700 parts first came out. If you wanna be the first on your

block

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

with the parts, you gotta be prepared to pay the high price.
-----------------
Alex __O _-\<,_ (_)/ (_)

According to our marketing and metallurgic research, the first of the

new

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Dura Ace parts that arrive in the country are substantially different

than

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

those produced from mid-life to end of sales cycle. The first arrived

parts

Quoted message said:

last longer, run smoother and retain their new part smell for almost a

full

Quoted message said:

year longer. Whatever the microscopic price difference may be, the first

run

Quoted message said:

parts are more desirable.

From a racer's standpoint, the sheer intimidation of new Dura Ace on the start line is a
monstrous advantage. As a serious racer, it is my duty

to

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

acquire the newest now.

Of course, nothing will be set in stone until after Interbike is over.

Does

Quoted message said:

anyone know additional details about the choice of colors for the

shifter

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

hoods and lettering on the cranks?

Bruce

"Tim McTeague" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Raymo853 said:

The pricing on DA 7800 stuff may be the final straw that pushes me to the Campy camp.

And what makes you think that Campy's new prices will stay where they are? I have heard that 2004
Record will be around $2K! For myself, I'm going

to

Quoted message said:

stay with my 9 speed DA for a while.

Tim McTeague

Me too! 9Sp D/A doesn't seem to hold me back any more than 6sp 105 used to...

Mike

Quoted message said:

Look at the cassette ratios-same as last year but more in between gears.

you

Quoted message said:

think we coulda got a 12-30 if the triple got dropped. Sorry I ain't no climber.

The triple didn't get dropped, it just stays the same. Look for a 10-spd version in '05. I agree
about the idiocy of keeping the same upper & lower range on the rear cassette though. If I could
just get a 29 large, I could put off a triple for a few more years (and I *am* a climber!).

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles www.ChainReaction.com

"Chalo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Shimano took this lesson deeply to heart, and the Dura Ace line represents their best guess as to
how much the biggest suckers in the bike market are willing to fork over.

Point taken...

Does that mean we are getting (paying) what we deserve? I think I will stick to older DA, works
wonderful, got it at a great price. Amazing how our entire culture has been brainwashed to dronely
follow the whole "brand name" and "best product" garbage being fed down to the people. I was
looking for a down jacket today, wondering where to look for North Face, Mountain Hardwear etc.,
BUT I can buy a pretty decent jacket at American Eagle for a quarter of the the price. Sometimes I
make myself sad.

you gotta pay the cost to be the boss... 🙂

Mike mikebeauchamp.commikebeauchamp.comOpen ↗

"basjan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Just got the latest Colorado Cyclist catalogue - the new DA 7800 parts are pretty expensive!
Except for the rear derailleur, and 10v chain, all 7800 parts exceed current Record. The shifters
are about $130 more than

Record,

Quoted message said:

while the crankset is $150 more (granted the BB might be included with

DA).

Quoted message said:

Where do they come up with a $100+ tag on the front hub???

Does this spell bad things pricewise for the '04 Record?

basjan-<< Just got the latest Colorado Cyclist catalogue - the new DA 7800 parts are pretty
expensive! Except for the rear derailleur, and 10v chain, all 7800 parts exceed current Record. The
shifters are about $130 more than Record, while the crankset is $150 more (granted the BB might be
included with DA). Where do they come up with a $100+ tag on the front hub???

Does this spell bad things pricewise for the '04 Record? >><BR><BR>

Two things have happened. One is that DA, like XTR is non-OEM, essentially direct from shimano
and 'proce [rotect3ed' No more discounted, stuff in bags at mailorder ,for DA and XTR(Ultegra, XT
to follow).

The other is the Euro is reeking havoc with Campag pricing so expect Record to be more than DA(as it
oughta, lots of Ti and carbon not found on DA), then DA, then Chorus(altho it will have the rear
der, levers and crank and front der from 2003 Record).

Then Ultegra then Centaur(which is almost identical to 2003 Chorus) and then Veloce(which is like
2003 Centaur).

Looking at the prices of DA, and what it's made of, I'm gonna be surprized if it is hugely in
demand, when compared to 2004 Chorus and Record..

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 vecchios.comvecchios.comOpen ↗ "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

"Mike Jacoubowsky/Chain Reaction Bicycles" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Look at the cassette ratios-same as last year but more in between gears.

you

Quoted message said:

think we coulda got a 12-30 if the triple got dropped. Sorry I ain't no climber.

The triple didn't get dropped, it just stays the same. Look for a 10-spd version in '05. I agree
about the idiocy of keeping the same upper & lower range on the rear cassette though. If I could
just get a 29 large, I could put off a triple for a few more years (and I *am* a climber!).

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles www.ChainReaction.com

_supposedly_ Campy 10 and D/A 10 use the same cog to cog spacing. UCI racing neutral support
happiness.....

So as a Trek Dealer you'd get Bontrager Campy compatible wheels and the 13-29 Campy 10s cassette.
Considering that Campy is making Veloce 10s this year there will be a good source of cheap 10s bits.

Me, I'm going for '03 XTR hubs with Shimano 10s cogs, It'll be good to have a low dish 10s wheel. Of
course I'll use Daytona shifters and derailers. Shimangloization is going to be real popular.

Scott Goldsmith Mutt Groupo Promo Group

"basjan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Just got the latest Colorado Cyclist catalogue - the new DA 7800 parts are pretty expensive! \

Marketing 101: You can always lower your prices, buy you can almost never raise them!