Heart rate and fat burning

(GABIKE) said:

I started road biking 2 1/2 years ago as a way to improve my fitness. Since
then I have become addicted and have started thinking about racing. My first
year I rode 800 miles, my second year 900 miles. So far this year I have ridden
1,600 miles. My endurance is up, my max speed it up, but Im not losing any
weight. The other day during a club ride I was talking to one of the local
racers and he suggested in order to lose fat I need to slow down and decrease
my heart rate. During a normal ride I have an average HR at around 185, he said
all Im doing is burning glucose and not fat and that I need to slow it down to
an average HR of around 140.
Im sure the guy was being honest with me but before I drastically change the
way I ride I wanted to get the opinions of some others who race and may have
been in my shoes at some point.
Im 32 yeas old, 6ft tall and 195#'s
Thanks for any help you can give.

Yepperz. Long Slow Distance aerobic rides are the way to burn fat

Use the ``AllTheWeb'' [http://www.alltheweb.com/] to search for more
detailed fat burning tips and how to establish a ``base'' mileage/kilometrage

--
le Vent a Dos, Davey Crockett
Six Day Site: http://members.rogers.com/sixday/sixday.html

In article
<[email hidden]>,

Quoted message said:

(GABIKE) said:

I started road biking 2 1/2 years ago as a way to improve my fitness. Since

[...]

Quoted message said:

Im 32 yeas old, 6ft tall and 195#'s
Thanks for any help you can give.

Yepperz. Long Slow Distance aerobic rides are the way to burn fat

[...]

here is an interesting discussion on the matter:
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&threadm=OlTv4.1550%24
M83.61633%40newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net&rnum=4&prev=/groups%3Fhl%3D
en%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26q%3Dfat%26btnG%3DSearch%26meta%3Dgroup%253Drec.
bicycles.racing

steve said:

In article
<[email hidden]>,

Quoted message said:

(GABIKE) said:

I started road biking 2 1/2 years ago as a way to improve my fitness. Since

[...]

Quoted message said:

Im 32 yeas old, 6ft tall and 195#'s
Thanks for any help you can give.

Yepperz. Long Slow Distance aerobic rides are the way to burn fat

[...]

here is an interesting discussion on the matter:
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&threadm=OlTv4.1550%24
M83.61633%40newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net&rnum=4&prev=/groups%3Fhl%3D
en%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26q%3Dfat%26btnG%3DSearch%26meta%3Dgroup%253Drec.
bicycles.racing

easier link to use-
http://groups.google.com/groups?&threadm=OlTv4.1550%24M83.61633%40newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net

(thanks to dronkert for teaching me that trick)
h

"GABIKE" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I started road biking 2 1/2 years ago as a way to improve my fitness.

Since

Quoted message said:

then I have become addicted and have started thinking about racing. My

first

Quoted message said:

year I rode 800 miles, my second year 900 miles. So far this year I have

ridden

Quoted message said:

1,600 miles. My endurance is up, my max speed it up, but Im not losing any
weight. The other day during a club ride I was talking to one of the local
racers and he suggested in order to lose fat I need to slow down and

decrease

Quoted message said:

my heart rate. During a normal ride I have an average HR at around 185, he

said

Quoted message said:

all Im doing is burning glucose and not fat and that I need to slow it

down to

Quoted message said:

an average HR of around 140.

I am sure he was "honest" but that is kind of simplistic. The only reason to
slow down your heart rate during ride is if and when you *need to* to add
more volume to your training. Don't slow down until you can increase your
time on the bike and use your "freshness" as a guide to how much you slow
down. I would say for your volume you need to continue at that pace, but
only if you are able to ride recovered for your next rides. BTW, when you do
this, you will want to add rides that are lower in intenstity and keep some
rides at the same or higher. Likely you will end up not slowing down at all
for the amount of time you are currently on the bike. When you add
additional rides, take *only those* at the slower pace to aid recovery, to
add aerobic capacity and to burn more calories and so on.

Quoted message said:

Im sure the guy was being honest with me but before I drastically change

the

Quoted message said:

way I ride I wanted to get the opinions of some others who race and may

have

Quoted message said:

been in my shoes at some point.
Im 32 yeas old, 6ft tall and 195#'s
Thanks for any help you can give.

Your volume likely needs to be much higher before you consider racing. If
you really are going to race, you need to get your volume to near where you
will need to for your racing objectives and then work on your diet. Well, it
is better to have already done it, but it might be too much to handle going
out and changing so much at once. You might try making both changes at the
same time because it could very well be the case that your current diet
can't support higher volumes of training yet.

Simply riding lots will not cause a much weight loss unless you have already
been eating a really healthy diet. What can happen is that your body craves
certain foods as a result of your training and if it can't get it from what
you eat, you will likely end up eating more of what you already do and then
maybe something else on top of it. That is why there are so many overweight
weekend warrior athletes.

Start reading up on typical performance of racers in your class (including
age if you plan to race with age graded masters). Look for groups of riders
(preferably racers and even better if they are close to who you will race
against) ASAP and then start planning that training volume, specialization
(of training) and then get your diet sorted out. Once you have a sense for
where you need to be WRT weight, power and endurance, try to increase each
in reasonable increments (that you will learn about as you go). If you do it
this way, you will likely be able to at least not finish DFL and get forever
turned off to racing. Maybe you are a natural athlete and you don't need all
of this but you are here, so you may as well find out the most likely path
to reasonable success.

Keeping an entire ride averaging 185 is pretty damn brutal ........

You are basically above your anaerobic threshhold the whole time. You want to be aerobic.

The formulae evevryone is putting out will probably do the trick.

But what everyone is not telling you is the nutrition and hydration part of it. More important the the numbers and calories you put out is the type and amount you put in. Make sure your diet is balanced and thought out.

One example is don't eat a big/heavy meal after you ride as your body will be too busy burning calories from the ride to really process it well. Food combining like heavy starches (ie. carbos) with proteins cause your digestion to get all f'ed up. Combine starches with vegtables at about a 1:2 or 1:3 ratio (less carbs to more veggies). Same goes for proteins.

Key to it is ride in your aerobic zone (age/fitness/weight calculated) and eat intelligently. THEN you will lose the weight that you want.

[email hidden] (GABIKE) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I started road biking 2 1/2 years ago as a way to improve my fitness. Since
then I have become addicted and have started thinking about racing. My first
year I rode 800 miles, my second year 900 miles. So far this year I have ridden
1,600 miles. My endurance is up, my max speed it up, but Im not losing any
weight. The other day during a club ride I was talking to one of the local
racers and he suggested in order to lose fat I need to slow down and decrease
my heart rate. During a normal ride I have an average HR at around 185, he said
all Im doing is burning glucose and not fat and that I need to slow it down to
an average HR of around 140.
Im sure the guy was being honest with me but before I drastically change the
way I ride I wanted to get the opinions of some others who race and may have
been in my shoes at some point.
Im 32 yeas old, 6ft tall and 195#'s
Thanks for any help you can give.

I think you need a new heart rate monitor. Using the rule of thumb
formula for maximum heart rate of 220 – your age, your calculated max
heart rate is 188. If your actual *average* heart rate on your rides
is 185 - 98.4% of maximum – then those 2 minute rides you're taking
aren't burning many calories.

I've read that when you are exercising at fairly low heart rates,
probably around 50% - 60% of max (94 – 113 bpm in your case) the body
tends to get a slightly higher proportion of its energy from stored
fat than when you're exercising with a heart rate closer to the max.
But, for weight control, that's largely irrelevant. No matter what,
the issue of calories in versus calories out prevails. If you train
at a very low heart rate, burning slightly more fat than you would at
a high heart rate, but consume more calories than you expend, you'll
gain weight.

What you need to do is do long distance rides at something like 60% -
75% of maximum heart rate, something you can sustain for many hours,
and be careful about what you eat. It's not the issue of the
percentage of energy the body is getting from stored fat. Rather,
it's the issue of expending a lot of calories on these long training
rides and then not replenishing those calories by overeating.

"GABIKE" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I started road biking 2 1/2 years ago as a way to improve my fitness.

Since

Quoted message said:

then I have become addicted and have started thinking about racing. My

first

Quoted message said:

year I rode 800 miles, my second year 900 miles. So far this year I have

ridden

Quoted message said:

1,600 miles. My endurance is up, my max speed it up, but Im not losing any
weight. The other day during a club ride I was talking to one of the local
racers and he suggested in order to lose fat I need to slow down and

decrease

Quoted message said:

my heart rate. During a normal ride I have an average HR at around 185, he

said

Quoted message said:

all Im doing is burning glucose and not fat and that I need to slow it

down to

Quoted message said:

an average HR of around 140.
Im sure the guy was being honest with me but before I drastically change

the

Quoted message said:

way I ride I wanted to get the opinions of some others who race and may

have

Quoted message said:

been in my shoes at some point.
Im 32 yeas old, 6ft tall and 195#'s
Thanks for any help you can give.

Good for you on getting out with the bike. First you need to understand
that 1600 miles is a lot to a guy that never biked before but extremely
little for one who races. I am an amateur riding in the older age groups
these days and still manage 200 to 250 miles per week. Add more time on
the bike when you can find the time and interest. Watch the type of foods
you consume and your weight will begin to come down and your ability to
perform better will go up. Keep it up and be consistent.

Ken

"GABIKE" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I started road biking 2 1/2 years ago as a way to improve my fitness.

Since

Quoted message said:

then I have become addicted and have started thinking about racing. My

first

Quoted message said:

year I rode 800 miles, my second year 900 miles. So far this year I have

ridden

Quoted message said:

1,600 miles. My endurance is up, my max speed it up, but Im not losing any
weight. The other day during a club ride I was talking to one of the local
racers and he suggested in order to lose fat I need to slow down and

decrease

Quoted message said:

my heart rate. During a normal ride I have an average HR at around 185, he

said

Quoted message said:

all Im doing is burning glucose and not fat and that I need to slow it

down to

Quoted message said:

an average HR of around 140.
Im sure the guy was being honest with me but before I drastically change

the

Quoted message said:

way I ride I wanted to get the opinions of some others who race and may

have

Quoted message said:

been in my shoes at some point.

If you want to lose weight, try to ride more, especially solo rides as these
force you to work harder (although by the sounds of it, you don't have to).
If time is really limited, then you'll have to ride fast to produce more
power and burn more calories.

What's your maximum HR? 185 sounds high to me, because it's 5 beats off my
max, but if you have a max of 220 then it's different.

As for what you're burning during a ride, it's supposed to be irrelevant for
the purposes of weightloss - sure you burn a higher *percentage* of fat at
lower heartrates, but fat still contributes at higher heartrates, and given
that you (generally) burn more total calories at high heartrates, you'll
still be burning a lot of "fat calories". I hope that's clearer than I think
it is.

But some people get really hungry after a high intensity ride compared to a
longer, lower intensity one that theoretically burns the same number of
calories. So you have to be careful how you refuel. Demolishing the freezer
after two hours at 90 percent of your max is probably not conducive to
proper weight loss.

Jeff

"GABIKE" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I started road biking 2 1/2 years ago as a way to improve my fitness.

Since

Quoted message said:

then I have become addicted and have started thinking about racing. My

first

Quoted message said:

year I rode 800 miles, my second year 900 miles. So far this year I have

ridden

Quoted message said:

1,600 miles. My endurance is up, my max speed it up, but Im not losing any
weight. The other day during a club ride I was talking to one of the local
racers and he suggested in order to lose fat I need to slow down and

decrease

Quoted message said:

my heart rate. During a normal ride I have an average HR at around 185, he

said

Quoted message said:

all Im doing is burning glucose and not fat and that I need to slow it

down to

Quoted message said:

an average HR of around 140.
Im sure the guy was being honest with me but before I drastically change

the

Quoted message said:

way I ride I wanted to get the opinions of some others who race and may

have

Quoted message said:

been in my shoes at some point.
Im 32 yeas old, 6ft tall and 195#'s
Thanks for any help you can give.

The guy does not know what he is talking about. Weight loss is a function
of creating an energy deficit. The fuel "used" does not matter. Many
people have misunderstood that lower intensity might mean a higher
percentage of energy from fat, but that is not the only way to lose weight.

I would agree that slowing down to develop a base is a great idea since
cycling is an aerobic sport (dammit!). 1600 miles in 7 months is not that
much riding (40 mpw?) however enough that you should be losing some weight
as long as you are not increasing your energy intake.

Also, you say you are not losing weight, are your clothes fitting
differently (looser)?

I would suggest upping the volume of riding to get more miles in and also
seeing a sport nutritionist--not someone who calls themselves that, but
someone with a degree and preferably a registered dietitian to assess your
diet. Often times small changes in diet are all that is needed (like
reducing desserts or soft drink intake).

"Daremo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Keeping an entire ride averaging 185 is pretty damn brutal ........

You are basically above your anaerobic threshhold the whole time. You
want to be aerobic.

The formulae evevryone is putting out will probably do the trick.

But what everyone is not telling you is the nutrition and hydration
part of it. More important the the numbers and calories you put out is
the type and amount you put in. Make sure your diet is balanced and
thought out.

One example is don't eat a big/heavy meal after you ride as your body
will be too busy burning calories from the ride to really process it
well. Food combining like heavy starches (ie. carbos) with proteins
cause your digestion to get all f'ed up. Combine starches with
vegtables at about a 1:2 or 1:3 ratio (less carbs to more veggies).
Same goes for proteins.

For someone training, I would say it is a good idea to each a moderate
to high carb meal after training to increase muscle glycogen resynthesis
rate. A little protein might help that, but there are other and perhaps
better reasons to take in some protein post exercise.

Quoted message said:

Key to it is ride in your aerobic zone (age/fitness/weight calculated)
and eat intelligently. THEN you will lose the weight that you want.

--
Daremo

"Daremo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Keeping an entire ride averaging 185 is pretty damn brutal ........

Not if your max heart rate is, say, 220 beats/min.

Quoted message said:

You are basically above your anaerobic threshhold the whole time. You
want to be aerobic.

Even above so-called anaerobic threshold the vast majority of energy is
still obtained aerobically. Only during an all-out effort of <60 or so
seconds initiated from complete rest will anaerobic metabolism be the
predominant source of energy.

Quoted message said:

The formulae evevryone is putting out will probably do the trick.

But what everyone is not telling you is the nutrition and hydration
part of it. More important the the numbers and calories you put out is
the type and amount you put in. Make sure your diet is balanced and
thought out.

One example is don't eat a big/heavy meal after you ride as your body
will be too busy burning calories from the ride to really process it
well. Food combining like heavy starches (ie. carbos) with proteins
cause your digestion to get all f'ed up. Combine starches with
vegtables at about a 1:2 or 1:3 ratio (less carbs to more veggies).
Same goes for proteins.

"Food combining" is malarky.

Quoted message said:

Key to it is ride in your aerobic zone (age/fitness/weight calculated)
and eat intelligently. THEN you will lose the weight that you want.

You'll lose weight if you burn more calories than you eat. If you don't, you
won't. Neither the intensity of the exercise or the source of the calories
have any impact (except to the extent that they influence energy balance).

Andy Coggan

(Tom Young) said:

I think you need a new heart rate monitor. Using the rule of thumb
formula for maximum heart rate of 220 – your age, your calculated max
heart rate is 188. If your actual *average* heart rate on your rides
is 185 - 98.4% of maximum – then those 2 minute rides you're taking
aren't burning many calories.

The 220- formula is an average for the whole population but many,
many people can be 20 beats or more away from the formula.

JT

Andy Coggan said:

"Daremo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Keeping an entire ride averaging 185 is pretty damn brutal ........

Not if your max heart rate is, say, 220 beats/min.

Quoted message said:

You are basically above your anaerobic threshhold the whole time. You
want to be aerobic.

Even above so-called anaerobic threshold the vast majority of energy is
still obtained aerobically. Only during an all-out effort of <60 or so
seconds initiated from complete rest will anaerobic metabolism be the
predominant source of energy.

Quoted message said:

The formulae evevryone is putting out will probably do the trick.

But what everyone is not telling you is the nutrition and hydration
part of it. More important the the numbers and calories you put out is
the type and amount you put in. Make sure your diet is balanced and
thought out.

One example is don't eat a big/heavy meal after you ride as your body
will be too busy burning calories from the ride to really process it
well. Food combining like heavy starches (ie. carbos) with proteins
cause your digestion to get all f'ed up. Combine starches with
vegtables at about a 1:2 or 1:3 ratio (less carbs to more veggies).
Same goes for proteins.

"Food combining" is malarky.

Quoted message said:

Key to it is ride in your aerobic zone (age/fitness/weight calculated)
and eat intelligently. THEN you will lose the weight that you want.

You'll lose weight if you burn more calories than you eat. If you don't, you
won't. Neither the intensity of the exercise or the source of the calories
have any impact (except to the extent that they influence energy balance).

Andy Coggan

I hate to flog what should be a dead horse. But wouldn't it be more
accurate to say that you'll lose weight if you burn more calories than
you absorb?
I don't know what the efficiency of the gut is in absorbing calories.
I can't assume it's the same for carbohydrate, protein, and fat.
Obviously some folks have malabsorption syndromes as well--not that I'm
depending on that to lose weight.
I unaccountably have a memory of the bodybuilder Franco Columbu once
writing that he thought salads should be eaten after the main course of
dinner--his feeling being that eating salad first would interfere with
the absorbtion of all dem good protein calories.
Obviously, dietary fiber decreases intestinal transit time, and this
could theoretically have an effect on intestinal efficiency in caloric
uptake, but I don't know this--perhaps you do.

Steve

Quoted message said:

GABIKE said:

I started road biking 2 1/2 years ago as a way to improve my fitness. Since
then I have become addicted and have started thinking about racing. My first
year I rode 800 miles, my second year 900 miles. So far this year I have ridden
1,600 miles. My endurance is up, my max speed it up, but Im not losing any
weight. The other day during a club ride I was talking to one of the local
racers and he suggested in order to lose fat I need to slow down and decrease
my heart rate.

The only way you'll end up losing weight by riding slower is if you ride
LONGER.

--

--------------------

Remove CLOTHES to reply

[email hidden] (GABIKE) wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

I started road biking 2 1/2 years ago as a way to improve my fitness.
Since then I have become addicted and have started thinking about
racing. My first year I rode 800 miles, my second year 900 miles. So
far this year I have ridden 1,600 miles. My endurance is up, my max
speed it up, but Im not losing any weight. The other day during a club

I dropped my weight last year from 195 lbs to 154 lbs on a 5ft 11in
frame. I'm male and in my mid-40's. Here's how I did it:

I rode 5,000 miles last year. Most of my riding was at what I think of as
the "panting threshold," where breathing just starts to need a little
huffing and puffing. Somewhere between cruise and tempo. I threw in some
interval-type fast stuff, but it was less than 10% of the time.

I found my best fat-burning weeks occurred when I rode 5 days a week,
with 4 moderate rides and 1 long ride. The long rides that really burned
the fat seemed to be in 2.5 to 3 hour range.

Diet is 90% vegetarian. Oatmeal, trail mix, fruit, veggies, pasta at
around the 1900 to 2000 calorie level. One "pig out" meal per week to
keep sanity.

Your mileage may vary. Neat thing for me being 154 lbs is I'm getting
close to the 2 lbs per inch ratio. As a result I've definitely noticed an
improvement in climbing ability at this weight. Good luck with your
weight goals.

Al

Andy Coggan said:

"Food combining" is malarky.

Andy Coggan

I think I'll trust my wife who is a nutritional consultant and cultured foods manufacturer on what I said .............. believe what you want.

Daremo said:

cultured foods manufacturer

What is a cultured foods manufacturer? Is it someone who makes food
like yogurt and cheese?

JT

"Steven Bornfeld" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Andy Coggan said:

"Daremo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Keeping an entire ride averaging 185 is pretty damn brutal ........

Not if your max heart rate is, say, 220 beats/min.

Quoted message said:

You are basically above your anaerobic threshhold the whole time. You
want to be aerobic.

Even above so-called anaerobic threshold the vast majority of energy is
still obtained aerobically. Only during an all-out effort of <60 or so
seconds initiated from complete rest will anaerobic metabolism be the
predominant source of energy.

Quoted message said:

The formulae evevryone is putting out will probably do the trick.

But what everyone is not telling you is the nutrition and hydration
part of it. More important the the numbers and calories you put out is
the type and amount you put in. Make sure your diet is balanced and
thought out.

One example is don't eat a big/heavy meal after you ride as your body
will be too busy burning calories from the ride to really process it
well. Food combining like heavy starches (ie. carbos) with proteins
cause your digestion to get all f'ed up. Combine starches with
vegtables at about a 1:2 or 1:3 ratio (less carbs to more veggies).
Same goes for proteins.

"Food combining" is malarky.

Quoted message said:

Key to it is ride in your aerobic zone (age/fitness/weight calculated)
and eat intelligently. THEN you will lose the weight that you want.

You'll lose weight if you burn more calories than you eat. If you don't,

you

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

won't. Neither the intensity of the exercise or the source of the

calories

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

have any impact (except to the extent that they influence energy

balance).

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Andy Coggan

I hate to flog what should be a dead horse. But wouldn't it be more
accurate to say that you'll lose weight if you burn more calories than
you absorb?

Perhaps - but it could also be considered nit-picking.

Quoted message said:

I don't know what the efficiency of the gut is in absorbing calories.

In healthy individuals, I believe it is on the order of 95-98%.

Quoted message said:

I can't assume it's the same for carbohydrate, protein, and fat.

In fact, it is essentially the same (barring some malabsorption syndromes).

Quoted message said:

Obviously some folks have malabsorption syndromes as well--not that I'm
depending on that to lose weight.

Good thing!

Quoted message said:

Obviously, dietary fiber decreases intestinal transit time, and this
could theoretically have an effect on intestinal efficiency in caloric
uptake, but I don't know this--perhaps you do.

Unless you've got severe diarrhea, essentially all of the calories that can
be absorbed will still be absorbed.

Andy Coggan

John Forrest Tomlinson said:

What is a cultured foods manufacturer? Is it someone who makes food
like yogurt and cheese?

JT

She doesn't specifically make that for sale (but she does make some cheese and yogurt for our kids - goat's milk based since she is sure they are both allergic to dairy). When they do get cow's milk and ice cream, it is only if it is from pure raw dairy, non-pasteurized (that she gets from Amish people in Pennsylvania as a co-op).

She makes four different blends of cultured vegtables (think saurkraut or kimchee, but without the vinegar and bad preservative stuff). And she makes a drink called young coconut keifer.

She uses only organic veggies, and there is no cooking involved, just the addition of a keifer starter to get the products to ferment.

We are currently working with my little brother to create a website, but it is still in the preliminary stages.

But this is a cycling forum, not a food specific forum .......... so I won't sit here and plug her products. Just keep in mind that eating smart will not only help you lose weight, but give you the proper nutrition to excell at cycling (and any other sport). Remember that the food you put in is your fuel.