Heart disease/cholesterol

The first and best known of these studies was the Framingham Heart Study,
carried out in the town of Framingham, Massachusetts. Although Framingham is
often associated with proof of the lipid hypothesis, the results of this
40-year study have been a disappointment to its promoters. Investigators
claimed that there was a 240% increase in "risk" of coronary heart disease,
or CHD, between cholesterol levels of 182 and 244. But the actual rate of
increase was only .13%. Between cholesterol levels of 244 and 294, the rate
of CHD actually declined. Thus Framingham investigators found virtually no
difference in heart disease for serum cholesterol levels between 182 and 284
the vast majority of the U.S. population. Nor did they find that diets high
in fat and cholesterol predisposed an individual to heart disease. As Dr.
William Castelli, the current director of the Framingham project, admitted
as recently as 1992: "In Framingham, Massachusetts, the more saturated fat
one ate, the more cholesterol one ate, the more calories one ate, the lower
people's serum cholesterol...we found that the people who ate the most
cholesterol, ate the most saturated fat, ate the most calories weighed the
least and were the most physically active."
Anth

The application of a modicum of common sense could have prevented the
massive expenditures lavished on the lipid hypothesis during the past 30
years. The lipid hypothesis implies that animal fat consumption must have
increased significantly since 1920 to correlate with the rise in heart
disease, but in fact the consumption of saturated animal fats in America
declined steadily during that period, while use of vegetable fats increased
dramatically. Autopsy studies of vegetarians reveal that although they have
lower serum cholesterol values than non-vegetarians, they have as much
atherosclerosis as non-vegetarians.
Anth

http://www.westonaprice.org/myths_truths/myths_truths_nutrition.html
Interesting Truths/Myths
Anth

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Heart disease/cholesterol
From: "Anth" [email hidden]
Date: 10/14/2003 9:08 PM Mountain Daylight Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Autopsy studies of vegetarians reveal that although they have
lower serum cholesterol values than non-vegetarians, they have as much
atherosclerosis as non-vegetarians.

Would you have a cite for the above .. ?

This I find kind of hard to believe due to the recent finding of elevated iron
levels and the association found to oxidized cholesterol ..

Free Radic Biol Med. 2003 Oct 15;35(8):922-8. Links

Serum ferritin concentration is associated with plasma levels of cholesterol
oxidation products in man.

Tuomainen TP, Diczfalusy U, Kaikkonen J, Nyyssonen K, Salonen JT.

Research Institute of Public Health, University of Kuopio, Kuopio, Finland

Cholesterol oxidation products, oxysterols, are thought to play a part in the
initiation and development of human atherosclerotic lesions. Excessive body
iron has been suggested to promote atherosclerosis and coronary heart disease
through its pro-oxidative properties. In the present study, the associations
between serum ferritin and plasma oxysterol concentrations were examined in 669
eastern Finnish men. Serum ferritin concentration had statistically significant
(p <.05) direct correlations with most of the measured oxysterols. In
multivariate adjusted regression models, serum ferritin concentration predicted
significantly the levels of 27-hydroxycholesterol (beta = 0.13, p <.001),
7alpha-hydroxycholesterol (beta = 0.11, p =.005), 25-hydroxycholesterol (beta =
0.10, p =.007), 7-ketocholesterol (beta = 0.10, p =.009), and
7beta-hydroxycholesterol (beta = 0.10, p =.02). In conclusion, excess body
iron, as assessed by serum ferritin, is associated with increased levels of
circulating oxysterols, both of enzymatic and nonenzymatic origin, in man.

PMID: 14556856 [PubMed - in process]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
------

Who loves ya.
Tom

Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com
Man Is A Herbivore! http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/manisaherbivore
DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/deadpeoplewalking

Hi
I imagine you would have to read the book 'The Cholesterol Myths'
Any references would be in there.
Anth

"doe" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Heart disease/cholesterol
From: "Anth" [email hidden]
Date: 10/14/2003 9:08 PM Mountain Daylight Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Autopsy studies of vegetarians reveal that although they have
lower serum cholesterol values than non-vegetarians, they have as much
atherosclerosis as non-vegetarians.

Would you have a cite for the above .. ?

This I find kind of hard to believe due to the recent finding of elevated

iron

Quoted message said:

levels and the association found to oxidized cholesterol ..

Free Radic Biol Med. 2003 Oct 15;35(8):922-8. Links

Serum ferritin concentration is associated with plasma levels of

cholesterol

Quoted message said:

oxidation products in man.

Tuomainen TP, Diczfalusy U, Kaikkonen J, Nyyssonen K, Salonen JT.

Research Institute of Public Health, University of Kuopio, Kuopio, Finland

Cholesterol oxidation products, oxysterols, are thought to play a part in

the

Quoted message said:

initiation and development of human atherosclerotic lesions. Excessive

body

Quoted message said:

iron has been suggested to promote atherosclerosis and coronary heart

disease

Quoted message said:

through its pro-oxidative properties. In the present study, the

associations

Quoted message said:

between serum ferritin and plasma oxysterol concentrations were examined

in 669

Quoted message said:

eastern Finnish men. Serum ferritin concentration had statistically

significant

Quoted message said:

(p <.05) direct correlations with most of the measured oxysterols. In
multivariate adjusted regression models, serum ferritin concentration

predicted

Quoted message said:

significantly the levels of 27-hydroxycholesterol (beta = 0.13, p <.001),
7alpha-hydroxycholesterol (beta = 0.11, p =.005), 25-hydroxycholesterol

(beta =

Quoted message said:

0.10, p =.007), 7-ketocholesterol (beta = 0.10, p =.009), and
7beta-hydroxycholesterol (beta = 0.10, p =.02). In conclusion, excess body
iron, as assessed by serum ferritin, is associated with increased levels

of

Quoted message said:

circulating oxysterols, both of enzymatic and nonenzymatic origin, in man.

PMID: 14556856 [PubMed - in process]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
------

Who loves ya.
Tom

Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com
Man Is A Herbivore! http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/manisaherbivore
DEAD PEOPLE WALKING

http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/deadpeoplewalking

Quoted message said:

The International Atherosclerosis Project found that vegetarians had just as
much atherosclerosis as meat eaters. (Lab Invest 1968 18:498)
Might want to start there.
http://www.bikescor.com/American%20diet.htm
Atherosclerosis Project examined 22,000 corpses from 14 nations
and found arterial plaque was the SAME in all parts of the world - in

populations that consumed large amounts of fatty animal products and those

who were largely vegetarian, in those with high rates of heart disease and

populations with little or no heart disease. This points to the fact that

thickening of the arterial wall with age is perhaps an unavoidable process

yet does not necessarily develope into clinical heart disease.

You might also try http://www.dr-rath-research.org/

Anth

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Heart disease/cholesterol
From: "Anth" [email hidden]
Date: 10/15/2003 9:19 AM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

The International Atheroscle

hmmmm....Anth

so I can go back to enjoying ice cream?? ie it doesn't really make a difference
what the cholesterol number is??

which of course I have known....isn't it at least 50% of folks with first heart
attack have low or normal lipid levels??

didn't know about the veg thing tho...interesting factoid...

thanks
hawki

Well I certainly don't worry about it.
Anth

"Hawki63" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Heart disease/cholesterol
From: "Anth" [email hidden]
Date: 10/15/2003 9:19 AM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

The International Atheroscle

hmmmm....Anth

so I can go back to enjoying ice cream?? ie it doesn't really make a

difference

Quoted message said:

what the cholesterol number is??

which of course I have known....isn't it at least 50% of folks with first

heart

Quoted message said:

attack have low or normal lipid levels??

didn't know about the veg thing tho...interesting factoid...

thanks
hawki

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Heart disease/cholesterol
From: "Anth" [email hidden]
Date: 10/15/2003 2:33 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

Well I certainly don't worry about it.

and your fave flavor is????

hawki

Vanilla with lot of cherries and chocolate chips 😉
Anth

"Hawki63" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Heart disease/cholesterol
From: "Anth" [email hidden]
Date: 10/15/2003 2:33 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

Well I certainly don't worry about it.

and your fave flavor is????

hawki

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Heart disease/cholesterol
From: "Anth" [email hidden]
Date: 10/15/2003 10:19 AM Mountain Daylight Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

The International Atherosclerosis Project found that vegetarians had just as
much atherosclerosis as meat eaters. (Lab Invest 1968 18:498)
Might want to start there.
http://www.bikescor.com/American%20diet.htm
Atherosclerosis Project examined 22,000 corpses from 14 nations
and found arterial plaque was the SAME in all parts of the world - in

populations that consumed large amounts of fatty animal products and those

who were largely vegetarian, in those with high rates of heart disease and

populations with little or no heart disease. This points to the fact that

thickening of the arterial wall with age is perhaps an unavoidable process

yet does not necessarily develope into clinical heart disease.

You might also try http://www.dr-rath-research.org/

Anth

I guess it is all a matter of who one uses as a reference ..?

<<snip>>
Studies also show that meat- eaters have higher rates of atherosclerosis and
fatal heart diseases. For example, the average non-vegetarian runs a fifty
percent risk of having a heart attack; whereas, a vegetarian runs only fifteen
percent risk of having a heart attack (Jainism 11).
<<snip>>

Who loves ya.
Tom
Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com
Man Is A Herbivore! http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/manisaherbivore
DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/deadpeoplewalking

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Heart disease/cholesterol
From: "Anth" [email hidden]
Date: 10/16/2003 1:51 AM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

Vanilla with lot of cherries and chocolate chips 😉

ohhhh....soundssss delicis

hawki

Yeah but both have similar instances of atherosclerosis.
Anth

"doe" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Heart disease/cholesterol
From: "Anth" [email hidden]
Date: 10/15/2003 10:19 AM Mountain Daylight Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

The International Atherosclerosis Project found that vegetarians had just

as

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

much atherosclerosis as meat eaters. (Lab Invest 1968 18:498)
Might want to start there.
http://www.bikescor.com/American%20diet.htm
Atherosclerosis Project examined 22,000 corpses from 14 nations
and found arterial plaque was the SAME in all parts of the world - in

populations that consumed large amounts of fatty animal products and

those

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

who were largely vegetarian, in those with high rates of heart disease

and

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

populations with little or no heart disease. This points to the fact that

thickening of the arterial wall with age is perhaps an unavoidable

process

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

yet does not necessarily develope into clinical heart disease.

You might also try http://www.dr-rath-research.org/

Anth

I guess it is all a matter of who one uses as a reference ..?

<<snip>>
Studies also show that meat- eaters have higher rates of atherosclerosis

and

Quoted message said:

fatal heart diseases. For example, the average non-vegetarian runs a fifty
percent risk of having a heart attack; whereas, a vegetarian runs only

fifteen

Quoted message said:

percent risk of having a heart attack (Jainism 11).
<<snip>>

Who loves ya.
Tom
Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com
Man Is A Herbivore! http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/manisaherbivore
DEAD PEOPLE WALKING

http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/deadpeoplewalking

Quoted message said: