Headset problems. starnut turning.

vintage said:

I had a headset installed last week and new starnut in the forks. The
headset after todays ride was a bit stiff. I backed off the tension but it
didnt' seem to do anything.

Umm, backing off the bolt on the top cap will not lessen the preload on
the bearings. You have to loosen the bolts that clamp the stem onto the
steerer.

Quoted message said:

After a while I realized the actual starnut
must be turning in the forks and therefore I can't even get the top cap
off. There isn't enough room to fit a hacksaw blade under the gap in the
cap.

You should not need to remove the cap. Just loosen it a bit.

Quoted message said:

Is my only thing to do is drill out the bolt from the top and wouldn't
that be hard? Not going back to the shop again as its a very nice new
headset as well and expensive carbon stem its on as well.

Considering your apparent lack of experience with this, deciding not to go
back to the shop is a bad idea indeed. You spent a lot of money on the
stem alone; don't skimp on service, if money is tight go for
less-expensive parts. The difference between a carbon stem and an
aluminum one is far less than the difference between proper
and improper installation or maintenance.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | If all economists were laid end to end, they would not reach a
_`\(,_ | conclusion. -- George Bernard Shaw
(_)/ (_) |

vintage said:

I had a headset installed last week and new starnut in the forks. The
headset after todays ride was a bit stiff. I backed off the tension
but it didnt' seem to do anything. After a while I realized the
actual starnut must be turning in the forks and therefore I can't
even get the top cap off. There isn't enough room to fit a hacksaw
blade under the gap in the cap.

Is my only thing to do is drill out the bolt from the top and
wouldn't that be hard? Not going back to the shop again as its a
very nice new headset as well and expensive carbon stem its on as
well.

Am I screwed??

Take it back to where you had it installed.

Quoted message said:

Is my only thing to do is drill out the bolt from the top and wouldn't
that
be hard? Not going back to the shop again as its a very nice new headset
as
well and expensive carbon stem its on as well.

As someone else pointed out, the adjustment of a threadless headset requires
that the bolts on the side are loosened, along with the top cap bolt. The
top cap does *not* have to be removed. The starnut shouldn't have any
tendency to turn if you are loosening the top nut, by the way.

Was this headset installed by a shop? When you mention that it's a "very
nice" headset, are we talking Chris King? If so, they are very picky about
installation, and often require additional frame prep (machining the
headtube surfaces flat). That could be an issue here as well.

I'm also a bit concerned about the "expensive carbon stem" that you're
messing with. Many of the higher-end components require use of a torque
wrench to set up properly. A mechanic who's worked with stems for years and
years may be able to avoid using one, but even then it's not a bad idea.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

"vintage" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I had a headset installed last week and new starnut in the forks. The
headset after todays ride was a bit stiff. I backed off the tension but
it
didnt' seem to do anything. After a while I realized the actual starnut
must be turning in the forks and therefore I can't even get the top cap
off.
There isn't enough room to fit a hacksaw blade under the gap in the cap.

Is my only thing to do is drill out the bolt from the top and wouldn't
that
be hard? Not going back to the shop again as its a very nice new headset
as
well and expensive carbon stem its on as well.

Am I screwed??

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

Quoted message said:

Is my only thing to do is drill out the bolt from the top and
wouldn't that
be hard? Not going back to the shop again as its a very nice new
headset as
well and expensive carbon stem its on as well.

As someone else pointed out, the adjustment of a threadless headset
requires that the bolts on the side are loosened, along with the top
cap bolt. The top cap does *not* have to be removed. The starnut
shouldn't have any tendency to turn if you are loosening the top nut,
by the way.
Was this headset installed by a shop? When you mention that it's a
"very nice" headset, are we talking Chris King? If so, they are very
picky about installation, and often require additional frame prep
(machining the headtube surfaces flat). That could be an issue here
as well.
I'm also a bit concerned about the "expensive carbon stem" that you're
messing with. Many of the higher-end components require use of a
torque wrench to set up properly.

Have you seen an all-carbon stem yet? The ones I've seen are carbon wrapped
over aluminum thread inserts. The lengthy part of the stem sometimes is
carbon-only.
--
Phil Lee, Squid

"Phil Lee, Squid" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

Quoted message said:

Is my only thing to do is drill out the bolt from the top and
wouldn't that
be hard? Not going back to the shop again as its a very nice new
headset as
well and expensive carbon stem its on as well.

As someone else pointed out, the adjustment of a threadless headset
requires that the bolts on the side are loosened, along with the top
cap bolt. The top cap does *not* have to be removed. The starnut
shouldn't have any tendency to turn if you are loosening the top nut,
by the way.
Was this headset installed by a shop? When you mention that it's a
"very nice" headset, are we talking Chris King? If so, they are very
picky about installation, and often require additional frame prep
(machining the headtube surfaces flat). That could be an issue here
as well.
I'm also a bit concerned about the "expensive carbon stem" that you're
messing with. Many of the higher-end components require use of a
torque wrench to set up properly.

Have you seen an all-carbon stem yet? The ones I've seen are carbon

wrapped

Quoted message said:

over aluminum thread inserts. The lengthy part of the stem sometimes is
carbon-only.
--
Phil Lee, Squid

Gee I didn't think I needed to say I loosend the stem bolts as well to
remove the top bolt. It really does feel like the star nut is turning
though. Feels like the bolt has hit a point in the starnut thread where it
wont turn anymore, hence any more torque and it causes the starnut itself to
move. Not everyone posting here is a noob :-(

Back to the shop I go to let them figure it out as they tightend the whole
thing up and caused the mess to begin with. Loosening your headset
shouldn't be this troublesome. I'm guessing they put in a cheap starnut in
the steerer that has caused problems with the stem bolt.

vintage said:

"Phil Lee, Squid" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

> Is my only thing to do is drill out the bolt from the top and
> wouldn't that
> be hard? Not going back to the shop again as its a very nice new
> headset as
> well and expensive carbon stem its on as well.

As someone else pointed out, the adjustment of a threadless headset
requires that the bolts on the side are loosened, along with the top
cap bolt. The top cap does *not* have to be removed. The starnut
shouldn't have any tendency to turn if you are loosening the top
nut, by the way.
Was this headset installed by a shop? When you mention that it's a
"very nice" headset, are we talking Chris King? If so, they are very
picky about installation, and often require additional frame prep
(machining the headtube surfaces flat). That could be an issue here
as well.
I'm also a bit concerned about the "expensive carbon stem" that
you're messing with. Many of the higher-end components require use
of a torque wrench to set up properly.

Have you seen an all-carbon stem yet? The ones I've seen are carbon
wrapped over aluminum thread inserts. The lengthy part of the stem
sometimes is carbon-only.
--
Phil Lee, Squid

Gee I didn't think I needed to say I loosend the stem bolts as well to
remove the top bolt. It really does feel like the star nut is
turning though. Feels like the bolt has hit a point in the starnut
thread where it wont turn anymore, hence any more torque and it
causes the starnut itself to move. Not everyone posting here is a
noob :-(

Back to the shop I go to let them figure it out as they tightend the
whole thing up and caused the mess to begin with. Loosening your
headset shouldn't be this troublesome. I'm guessing they put in a
cheap starnut in the steerer that has caused problems with the stem
bolt.

Starnut's a starnut. There's no such thing as a boutique starnut.
Expanders are a different story, using a conical expansion device to push
outwards against the steerer. Look into having your LBS put one in if they
can't figure it out. I would assume that they would go with putting in a
second starnut on top of the first one.

I have had some starnuts that have poorly-pressed threaded inserts in the
starnut, so the star portion of the nut stays in place, while the nut
portion turns with the bolt. This may very well be the case.

--
Phil Lee, Squid

vintage said:

"Phil Lee, Squid" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

> Is my only thing to do is drill out the bolt from the top and
> wouldn't that
> be hard? Not going back to the shop again as its a very nice new
> headset as
> well and expensive carbon stem its on as well.

As someone else pointed out, the adjustment of a threadless headset
requires that the bolts on the side are loosened, along with the top
cap bolt. The top cap does *not* have to be removed. The starnut
shouldn't have any tendency to turn if you are loosening the top nut,
by the way.
Was this headset installed by a shop? When you mention that it's a
"very nice" headset, are we talking Chris King? If so, they are very
picky about installation, and often require additional frame prep
(machining the headtube surfaces flat). That could be an issue here
as well.
I'm also a bit concerned about the "expensive carbon stem" that you're
messing with. Many of the higher-end components require use of a
torque wrench to set up properly.

Have you seen an all-carbon stem yet? The ones I've seen are carbon

wrapped

Quoted message said:

over aluminum thread inserts. The lengthy part of the stem sometimes is
carbon-only.
--
Phil Lee, Squid

Gee I didn't think I needed to say I loosend the stem bolts as well to
remove the top bolt.

Sorry, bro, but it needs to be specified. Over in another forum I type at there
was exactly that sort of problem. The guy just couldn't figure out how to raise
his handlebars.

Quoted message said:

It really does feel like the star nut is turning
though. Feels like the bolt has hit a point in the starnut thread where it
wont turn anymore, hence any more torque and it causes the starnut itself to
move. Not everyone posting here is a noob :-(

Back to the shop I go to let them figure it out as they tightend the whole
thing up and caused the mess to begin with. Loosening your headset
shouldn't be this troublesome. I'm guessing they put in a cheap starnut in
the steerer that has caused problems with the stem bolt.

There are different nuts for different steerer materials and thicknesses. I'd
try reaching up from the bottom of the steerer with a long screwdriver or the
like and see if I couldn't wedge the starnut in place well enough to remove the
bolt and then drive the old bad starnut through. Or rather I'd let that bike
shop do that.

Ron

"RonSonic" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Mon, 28 Aug 2006 07:51:30 +1000, "vintage" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"Phil Lee, Squid" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
>> Is my only thing to do is drill out the bolt from the top and
>> wouldn't that
>> be hard? Not going back to the shop again as its a very nice new
>> headset as
>> well and expensive carbon stem its on as well.
>
> As someone else pointed out, the adjustment of a threadless headset
> requires that the bolts on the side are loosened, along with the top
> cap bolt. The top cap does *not* have to be removed. The starnut
> shouldn't have any tendency to turn if you are loosening the top nut,
> by the way.
> Was this headset installed by a shop? When you mention that it's a
> "very nice" headset, are we talking Chris King? If so, they are very
> picky about installation, and often require additional frame prep
> (machining the headtube surfaces flat). That could be an issue here
> as well.
> I'm also a bit concerned about the "expensive carbon stem" that

you're

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> messing with. Many of the higher-end components require use of a
> torque wrench to set up properly.

Have you seen an all-carbon stem yet? The ones I've seen are carbon

wrapped

Quoted message said:

over aluminum thread inserts. The lengthy part of the stem sometimes

is

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

carbon-only.
--
Phil Lee, Squid

Gee I didn't think I needed to say I loosend the stem bolts as well to
remove the top bolt.

Sorry, bro, but it needs to be specified. Over in another forum I type at

there

Quoted message said:

was exactly that sort of problem. The guy just couldn't figure out how to

raise

Quoted message said:

his handlebars.

Quoted message said:

It really does feel like the star nut is turning
though. Feels like the bolt has hit a point in the starnut thread where

it

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

wont turn anymore, hence any more torque and it causes the starnut itself

to

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

move. Not everyone posting here is a noob :-(

Back to the shop I go to let them figure it out as they tightend the

whole

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

thing up and caused the mess to begin with. Loosening your headset
shouldn't be this troublesome. I'm guessing they put in a cheap starnut

in

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the steerer that has caused problems with the stem bolt.

There are different nuts for different steerer materials and thicknesses.

I'd

Quoted message said:

try reaching up from the bottom of the steerer with a long screwdriver or

the

Quoted message said:

like and see if I couldn't wedge the starnut in place well enough to

remove the

Quoted message said:

bolt and then drive the old bad starnut through. Or rather I'd let that

bike

Quoted message said:

shop do that.

Ron

All sorted. Phil was right. It was the actual thread/barrel in the middle
of the starnut that was turning not the starnut itself. Basically it was
knocked out from the bottom of the forks up and out. New starnut seated and
all is well again. :-) Borderline call that the bearings weren't toasted.

vintage said:

I had a headset installed last week and new starnut in the forks. The
headset after todays ride was a bit stiff. I backed off the tension but it
didnt' seem to do anything. After a while I realized the actual starnut
must be turning in the forks and therefore I can't even get the top cap off.
There isn't enough room to fit a hacksaw blade under the gap in the cap.

Is my only thing to do is drill out the bolt from the top and wouldn't that
be hard? Not going back to the shop again as its a very nice new headset as
well and expensive carbon stem its on as well.

Am I screwed??

If it's turning, it must be loose...pry it off, may loose the top cap
but I would think you could pry it out, then install a correct sized
one..BTW-'had a HS installed', by a bike shop? sounds like they need to
make it right.

vintage said:

"RonSonic" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Mon, 28 Aug 2006 07:51:30 +1000, "vintage" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"Phil Lee, Squid" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
> >> Is my only thing to do is drill out the bolt from the top and
> >> wouldn't that
> >> be hard? Not going back to the shop again as its a very nice new
> >> headset as
> >> well and expensive carbon stem its on as well.
> >
> > As someone else pointed out, the adjustment of a threadless headset
> > requires that the bolts on the side are loosened, along with the top
> > cap bolt. The top cap does *not* have to be removed. The starnut
> > shouldn't have any tendency to turn if you are loosening the top nut,
> > by the way.
> > Was this headset installed by a shop? When you mention that it's a
> > "very nice" headset, are we talking Chris King? If so, they are very
> > picky about installation, and often require additional frame prep
> > (machining the headtube surfaces flat). That could be an issue here
> > as well.
> > I'm also a bit concerned about the "expensive carbon stem" that

you're

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > messing with. Many of the higher-end components require use of a
> > torque wrench to set up properly.
>
> Have you seen an all-carbon stem yet? The ones I've seen are carbon
wrapped
> over aluminum thread inserts. The lengthy part of the stem sometimes

is

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> carbon-only.
> --
> Phil Lee, Squid
>
>

Gee I didn't think I needed to say I loosend the stem bolts as well to
remove the top bolt.

Sorry, bro, but it needs to be specified. Over in another forum I type at

there

Quoted message said:

was exactly that sort of problem. The guy just couldn't figure out how to

raise

Quoted message said:

his handlebars.

Quoted message said:

It really does feel like the star nut is turning
though. Feels like the bolt has hit a point in the starnut thread where

it

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

wont turn anymore, hence any more torque and it causes the starnut itself

to

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

move. Not everyone posting here is a noob :-(

Back to the shop I go to let them figure it out as they tightend the

whole

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

thing up and caused the mess to begin with. Loosening your headset
shouldn't be this troublesome. I'm guessing they put in a cheap starnut

in

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the steerer that has caused problems with the stem bolt.

There are different nuts for different steerer materials and thicknesses.

I'd

Quoted message said:

try reaching up from the bottom of the steerer with a long screwdriver or

the

Quoted message said:

like and see if I couldn't wedge the starnut in place well enough to

remove the

Quoted message said:

bolt and then drive the old bad starnut through. Or rather I'd let that

bike

Quoted message said:

shop do that.

Ron

All sorted. Phil was right. It was the actual thread/barrel in the middle
of the starnut that was turning not the starnut itself. Basically it was
knocked out from the bottom of the forks up and out. New starnut seated and
all is well again. :-) Borderline call that the bearings weren't toasted.

Cool. This stuff usually does get worked out.

Ron