headgear

Joe Humble said:

I also really need to have some rebreathing of partially warmed air.

Why? Are you in an exceptionally cold climate, and/or do you have
exceptional issues with breathing cold air?

There's a couple items here with a sort of breathe-through mark
arrangement - not exactly what you described, but possibly of interest.

http://tinyurl.com/cdur7

"We are strangers
Disembarking a strange train, derailed."
~ Jack

Joe Humble said:

I also really need to have some
rebreathing of partially warmed air. I know that will restrict my O2
but it is either that or be unable to breathe at all.

You can use regular headgear plus a "Buff" maybe
http://www.buff.es/default.cfm?cataleg=1&adult=1

These are just a simple "tube" of stretchy material that you can use to
cover up various bits of the head, neck and face.

I use the "original" model, which I bought for running in the desert, as it
doesn't get too cold around here, but they now produce "polar" or "combi"
versions which may suit your needs better?

On 12 Nov 2005 11:38:52 -0800, "Charlie Pendejo" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Joe Humble said:

I also really need to have some rebreathing of partially warmed air.

Why? Are you in an exceptionally cold climate, and/or do you have
exceptional issues with breathing cold air?

There's a couple items here with a sort of breathe-through mark
arrangement - not exactly what you described, but possibly of interest.

http://tinyurl.com/cdur7

Thanks, I had seen that page but it is tough to tell how they will
actually fit. One did look promising.

http://www.campmor.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=32420472

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steve common said:

Joe Humble said:

I also really need to have some
rebreathing of partially warmed air. I know that will restrict my O2
but it is either that or be unable to breathe at all.

You can use regular headgear plus a "Buff" maybe
http://www.buff.es/default.cfm?cataleg=1&adult=1

These are just a simple "tube" of stretchy material that you can use to
cover up various bits of the head, neck and face.

I use the "original" model, which I bought for running in the desert, as it
doesn't get too cold around here, but they now produce "polar" or "combi"
versions which may suit your needs better?

hmmm...looks a little too sissy-mary nancypants for my taste.

--
Is this thing on?

Joe Humble said:

hmmm...looks a little too sissy-mary nancypants for my taste.

True 'nuff - they suite snowboarders, teehee :-D

Mine have "Marathon des Sables" or "Desert Cup" all over 'em, but I can see
your point. Pity they don't do just plain ones (maybe alternative
manufacturers do?)

Joe Humble said:

With winter upon us I am once again starting my search for the perfect
headgear. I will almost certainly need to go with a Balaclava because
I need both ear and neck coverage. I also really need to have some
rebreathing of partially warmed air. I know that will restrict my O2
but it is either that or be unable to breathe at all.

Toward this end I need a Balaclava that will cover my head, of course,
but I also need it to be fairly loose in the mouth area to allow for a
gap to form there. I have seen many options where either the entire
Balaclava is tight or the entire thing is loose but I'm not finding
any, that are suitable for running, where the head/neck it fairly
tight and the area in front of the mouth is loose.

I have an assortment of balaclavas - that I use in various ways under
various conditions. I generally prefer a somewhat snug, but not tight,
fit (tight things on my head give me headaches). About 10F, but usually
subzero F, and below if dry is when I start using mouth covering for
moisturization. I typically pull the bottom up over my mouth when I need
the cover, drop it below my chin when I don't. Watch out for the wet
material freezing. Unless I'm cold, I leave the bottom of the balaclava
outside other layers, so I don't overheat. If I'm cold (like warumup in
-20F), I'll funnel the heat from my breath down to chest area by tucking
bottom of balaclava inside outer layer.

At times in the past, I've used a loose scarf, but that's a pain.

Also, if it's cold enough to find breath warming desirable, I may have
an outer cap or hood over my balaclava. This keeps the top snug. If the
bottom's too loose, it's not really functional. Sometimes a snug fitting
one may expand the holes by stretching, so there really is room to breathe.

Oh, and if you've got a balaclava with vapor barrier, don't put that
part over your mouth (think plastic bag over head) - some have the whole
balaclava that way, some just the top part.

On occasion I've tried neck gaitors / buffs that pull up over your head,
but they're too constricting or provide insufficient warmth for me or both.

I've also got a neoprene face mask that covers lower part of face and
has holes for breathing. But I don't think it's been cold enough to try
it since I got it. I'm not sure if that'll do the job or not.

Some balaclavas may have a partial mouth hole for breathing. And there's
total face masks, but they are really a pain to get lined up right.

And use vaseline on face parts that might not be covered by balaclava.

There's some thoughts for you. It really depends a lot on weather and
effort level as to what works.

Dot

--
"A winner is just a loser who tried one more time." -Captain George M.
Moore, Jr., United States Air Force (retired),
http://www.avdlm.com/press.php?page=stories&storyid=1

"L'arc électrique connaît les graines,
L'air de l'avion aérien d'Unstrings sur les ailes du papier plié,
Les sait pour chanter,

Comme le déplacement très loin loin sur les ailes
Pour lire par exemple
Le déplacement sur un train à Moscou sur le vent,
La chanson et le ~ de prière aérodynamique

De l'acrobate de ou du ~!

Naturellement, donc, l'élégance fait un pas par le seuil,
Fait son ~

O d'entrée de Grande combien elle défie
La danse du ~ de pesanteur!"
~ Laurie

Joe Humble said:

With winter upon us I am once again starting my search for the perfect
headgear. I will almost certainly need to go with a Balaclava because
I need both ear and neck coverage. I also really need to have some
rebreathing of partially warmed air.

IMHO if and when breathing in cold air is really a concern, it's better
to go for the maximum ultimate technical solution - even at the risk of
appearling like an action movie extra or becoming an object of ridicule
to the neighbourhood kids: http://www.psolar.com

Anders

"anders" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

IMHO if and when breathing in cold air is really a concern, it's
better
to go for the maximum ultimate technical solution - even at the risk
of
appearling like an action movie extra or becoming an object of
ridicule
to the neighbourhood kids: http://www.psolar.com

I amass 5 to 20 runners each week all winter and only one uses an old
balaclava. He also shows up at 30 degrees with full Gotex pants and
jacket and some polyyada layers underneath. He claims he does not have a
circulation problem and prefers to overdress. Our temps are -10F to +10F
on average. Some of use a layer of Vaseline but other than that, we are
all bare faced.

Just curious, how cold are we talking about? How cold does one think it
has to be before it's necessary to pre-heat the air?

-DougF

Doug Freese kirjoitti:

Quoted message said:

Just curious, how cold are we talking about? How cold does one think it
has to be before it's necessary to pre-heat the air?

That would depend on two things: (1) whether you suffer from asthma or
an asthmalike cold induced respiratory problem and (2) how hard your
workout is going to be. The temperature could be as high as -5°C/23F
and still necessitate a thermal mask for many sufferers and when it's
below -18°C/0F it begins to be cold enough for most who have developed
a problem and for many who fear they run a high risk of developing one
because they regularly train hard and long in the cold to do theri
masks.

I tend to wear mine - it's not a Psolar but a local brand, Jonasport -
mainly for comfort when it's below -20°C/-4F: I know it really isn't
necessary but I simply don't like the burn in my lungs and once I tried
a thermal mask I knew that a (conventional) balacava comes second in
wearer comfort.

Anders

On Mon, 14 Nov 2005 10:29:52 GMT, "Doug Freese" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Just curious, how cold are we talking about? How cold does one think it
has to be before it's necessary to pre-heat the air?

It's never required. Your throat heats the air before it hits your
lungs doiwn to something like -50 degrees.

Go to a ski store. They sell looser ones.

Joe Humble said:

With winter upon us I am once again starting my search for the perfect
headgear. I will almost certainly need to go with a Balaclava because
I need both ear and neck coverage. I also really need to have some
rebreathing of partially warmed air. I know that will restrict my O2
but it is either that or be unable to breathe at all.

Toward this end I need a Balaclava that will cover my head, of course,
but I also need it to be fairly loose in the mouth area to allow for a
gap to form there. I have seen many options where either the entire
Balaclava is tight or the entire thing is loose but I'm not finding
any, that are suitable for running, where the head/neck it fairly
tight and the area in front of the mouth is loose.

Suggestions please?

Mike
--
Is this thing on?

Doug Freese said:

"anders" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

IMHO if and when breathing in cold air is really a concern, it's
better
to go for the maximum ultimate technical solution - even at the risk
of
appearling like an action movie extra or becoming an object of
ridicule
to the neighbourhood kids: http://www.psolar.com

I amass 5 to 20 runners each week all winter and only one uses an old
balaclava. He also shows up at 30 degrees with full Gotex pants and
jacket and some polyyada layers underneath. He claims he does not have a
circulation problem and prefers to overdress. Our temps are -10F to +10F
on average. Some of use a layer of Vaseline but other than that, we are
all bare faced.

Just curious, how cold are we talking about? How cold does one think it
has to be before it's necessary to pre-heat the air?

As Anders says, it depends a lot on the person, but I think it also
depends a lot on the moisture content (or lack thereof) and maybe
adaptation for that season. Our air quality (particulates) frequently is
low in cold, dry temperatures - dust from dirt roads, dust from sand on
paved roads, floodplain along glacial rivers, people's stoves (esp. with
inversion layer), etc. And some years one of the volcanoes across Cook
Inlet might get into the act - definitely use protection (dust mask) in
these cases. Vaseline on face has nothing to do with breathing.

I usually don't think about it until it reaches subzeroF, but will at
least take my balaclava with me when getting down around +10F (may be
low lying areas or windy areas along my route that can give a nasty
surprise). I added it the other night when my throat was really dry
(around +10F), but then took it off as I warmed up (20-30min into a 1 hr
run). On winter runs (subzero F) over 1 hr, it's not unusual for me to
start with balaclava pulled up, mittens, etc, and as I warm up (20-30
min is stage 1; stage 2 hits at close to 1 hr), both mittens and hat may
come off - even at subzero F, although earband may still be on. When I
go from heated gym (xt class) to -20F just walking to car, I almost
always cough.

The other night when I used balaclava at +10F was unusually warm for me
to have it on and pulled up, but I was also still getting cold adapted
this year. I hadn't used it earlier when a little colder. Also the
previous Sat, there was something in the air indoors at the xt class
that was making me cough, and there may have been something residual on
my next run.

Dot

--
"A winner is just a loser who tried one more time." -Captain George M.
Moore, Jr., United States Air Force (retired),
http://www.avdlm.com/press.php?page=stories&storyid=1

John B. said:

Go to a ski store. They sell looser ones.

You must've meant "loser" ones...

anders said:

Joe Humble said:

With winter upon us I am once again starting my search for the perfect
headgear. I will almost certainly need to go with a Balaclava because
I need both ear and neck coverage. I also really need to have some
rebreathing of partially warmed air.

IMHO if and when breathing in cold air is really a concern, it's better
to go for the maximum ultimate technical solution - even at the risk of
appearling like an action movie extra or becoming an object of ridicule
to the neighbourhood kids: http://www.psolar.com

Anders

Damn, that is hard core (probably too hard core). As you noted in
follow-ups I'm just really VERY sensitive to cold air. I can even
have problems at 40 degrees F. However, I've noticed that I only need
really short intervals of warmed air to breathe that will let me run
unimpaired. I usually do this with whatever shirt I'm wearing (I pull
it up over my mouth). A looser balaclava with a face that I can pull
up and down may work and I'll try that before I give the darth vader
one a try ;-)
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On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 02:09:19 GMT, Joe Humble <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

As you noted in
follow-ups I'm just really VERY sensitive to cold air. I can even
have problems at 40 degrees F.

You're A) A pansie, B) an idiot, or C) a troll.