Headaches later.

On Tue, 1 Mar 2005 15:21:06 +0000 (UTC), "stephenjones"
<[email hidden]> wrote:

| Isotonic powders and drinks are a con. My chemist tells me 1 teaspoon salt
| and half a teaspon suger in a litre of water (roughly speaking) is what they
| give to cholera sufferers in the third world, it stops them dying of mineral
| imbalance. Personally, when going for long walks in hot climates, I take a
| few apples with me, that sorts out any mineral deficiencies.
| For longer expeditions where mineral imbalance might become a problem then a
| pocket full of dry fruit is fine.

I can confirm from personal experience that *in a hot climate* enough salt
is of equal importance to enough water. In Aden with a temperature of
blood heat and humid as hell, you sweated continuously. We had to eat salt
tablets to stave off heat exhaustion.

In the UK, normal diet gives too much salt, and the temperatures and
humidity are nothing to write home about, so water alone is OK.

--
Dave F

Quoted message said:

In the UK, normal diet gives too much salt, and the temperatures and
humidity are nothing to write home about, so water alone is OK.

--
Dave F

I'll agree with Dave. In the UK it's highly unlikely you'd need salt
tablets, or even extra salt. Most pre-packaged foods hava too much salt
anyhow.

One of the problems with Camelback water bladders - IMHO - is they encourage
you to drink and still keep walking. It seems, that having to stop, sit
down, and take out a bottle of water from your rucksack is long gone.
However, this does tend to make you stop and cool down (or freeze you up)
and relax a bit more.

Jhimmy

Quoted message said:

I know I've had the headaches before but I never really thought about it

and

Quoted message said:

didn't make any mental notes.
I will certainly start making notes after a walk from now on and report

back

Quoted message said:

to the ng.
I have ordered High5 isotonic powder in an attempt to remove dehydration
from my enquiries

--
Muzz
reply to uglyduck NOT spamfrog

Cheers Muzz, anything you learn might help others!

Jhimmy

On Tue, 01 Mar 2005 19:45:06 GMT, "Jhimmy" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

One of the problems with Camelback water bladders - IMHO - is they encourage
you to drink and still keep walking. It seems, that having to stop, sit
down, and take out a bottle of water from your rucksack is long gone.
However, this does tend to make you stop and cool down (or freeze you up)
and relax a bit more.

When I carry water, it's in the two side mesh pockets of the bag - no
stop is needed to reach to my side and remove/replace the bottle. But
I make sure I stop for scenery, smoking, gazing. wildlife, sunsets,
moonrises, sparkling becks, chatting to strangers, etc.

--

R
o
o
n
e
y

druidh <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

stephenjones said:

Isotonic powders and drinks are a con. My chemist tells me 1 teaspoon salt
and half a teaspon suger in a litre of water (roughly speaking) is what they
give to cholera sufferers in the third world, it stops them dying of mineral
imbalance. Personally, when going for long walks in hot climates, I take a
few apples with me, that sorts out any mineral deficiencies.
For longer expeditions where mineral imbalance might become a problem then a
pocket full of dry fruit is fine.

50/50 Fresh orange/water and a pinch of salt seems to work well for me.

I've seen folk take rehydrat with them on the hills. Not only do I think
this is overkill, but the stuff tastes awful!

druidh

I have exactly the same problem - not just walking, but also playing
badminton, or any form of over-exertion in hot weather. Which
probably means it isn't rucksack position. It's definitely worse in
hot weather, but I've occassionally had it in winter too (in winter it
seems like going from very cold to very warm temperatures when I
return home might be a contributory factor).

If you're getting it in summer, it could be the onset of
heatstroke/sunstroke (if so, in more severe cases you'll end up
feeling/being sick).

Ibuprofen & sleep seem do to be the best cure, but I've also found
isotonic drinks a big help. Even something like lemon squash works
better than plain water. Surprisingly, tea also helps sometimes, which
it shouldn't if dehydration is the cause - perhaps it is caffeine
withdrawal after all!

The problem does affect my walking though - I tend to avoid walking &
badminton altogether during July & August & just sit in the shade.

One thing I have noticed is that it might be slightly fitness
dependent - when I've been on long distance walks over a few days, I
might suffer the first or second night but not at all after that - or
maybe I just become acclimatised to the heat?

It's nice to know it's not just me who suffers from this - please post
here if you find any solutions in the future, as I'd really like to
claim back my summer months' walking (although it is a good excuse for
getting out of doing the gardening etc in the summer...!)

Cheers

Anth

Please link to: http://www.wheresthepath.com/index.htm

[email hidden] said...

Quoted message said:

Seems like a lot of people reckon on dehydration as the cause of your
headaches. Thing is, it's hard to dehydrate in Britain,

At the risk of being dogmatic - rubbish sir.
--
If you can keep your head when all around are losing theirs...
then you've failed to grasp some important aspect of the
situation.

You guessed!

But most of what I said was more or less serious.

"Gordon Harris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

stephenjones <[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Seems like a lot of people reckon on dehydration as the cause of your
headaches. Thing is, it's hard to dehydrate in Britain,

Ha ha ha! Troll?
--
Gordon Harris

Yeh
But that's just on your way home from you're Local via the Balti of course
!!!!
Ploggo

"Rooney" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Tue, 01 Mar 2005 19:45:06 GMT, "Jhimmy" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

One of the problems with Camelback water bladders - IMHO - is they

encourage

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

you to drink and still keep walking. It seems, that having to stop, sit
down, and take out a bottle of water from your rucksack is long gone.
However, this does tend to make you stop and cool down (or freeze you up)
and relax a bit more.

When I carry water, it's in the two side mesh pockets of the bag - no
stop is needed to reach to my side and remove/replace the bottle. But
I make sure I stop for scenery, smoking, gazing. wildlife, sunsets,
moonrises, sparkling becks, chatting to strangers, etc.

--

R
o
o
n
e
y

On Wed, 2 Mar 2005 17:18:58 -0000, "Ploggo" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Yeh
But that's just on your way home from you're Local via the Balti of course
!!!!
Ploggo

I'm like that 24/7, Ploggo.

(Parents evening, circa 1972: Latin master, to mum: he's always
staring out of the window at the clouds or the cherry blossom but he
seems to know what I've been saying when I ask him a question.)

--

R
o
o
n
e
y

"Gordon Harris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

stephenjones <[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Seems like a lot of people reckon on dehydration as the cause of your
headaches. Thing is, it's hard to dehydrate in Britain,

Ha ha ha! Troll?
--
Gordon Harris

Depends on the person involved. On a day walk, I'll agree with Stephen,
it's very hard for an average person to dehydrate sufficiently. Don't
confuse the issue with hypothermia which is closely linked to dehydration.

IMHO it would take over a few days where dehydration would set in with the
UK weather.

I bet 90% of readers here could spend most of the day walking with less then
1/2 litre of water in their rucksacks and still not have dehydration. They
might be very thirsty! But not full dehyrdration.

Jhimmy.

[email hidden] said...

Quoted message said:

"Gordon Harris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

stephenjones <[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Seems like a lot of people reckon on dehydration as the cause of your
headaches. Thing is, it's hard to dehydrate in Britain,

Depends on the person involved. On a day walk, I'll agree with Stephen,
it's very hard for an average person to dehydrate sufficiently. Don't
confuse the issue with hypothermia which is closely linked to dehydration.

IMHO it would take over a few days where dehydration would set in with the
UK weather.

I bet 90% of readers here could spend most of the day walking with less then
1/2 litre of water in their rucksacks and still not have dehydration. They
might be very thirsty! But not full dehyrdration.

True, but you (generic) could still be dehydrated to the point
of getting a headache or somesuch. I don't think any of us
were thinking of what might be described as 'full, clinical,
quick call an ambulance' dehydration, but it doesn't need to
get to that stage for discomfort to set in.
--
If you can keep your head when all around are losing theirs...
then you've failed to grasp some important aspect of the
situation.

Jhimmy <[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

"Gordon Harris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

stephenjones <[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Seems like a lot of people reckon on dehydration as the cause of your
headaches. Thing is, it's hard to dehydrate in Britain,

Ha ha ha! Troll?
--
Gordon Harris

Depends on the person involved. On a day walk, I'll agree with Stephen,
it's very hard for an average person to dehydrate sufficiently. Don't
confuse the issue with hypothermia which is closely linked to dehydration.

IMHO it would take over a few days where dehydration would set in with the
UK weather.

I bet 90% of readers here could spend most of the day walking with less then
1/2 litre of water in their rucksacks and still not have dehydration. They
might be very thirsty! But not full dehyrdration.

Jhimmy.

What's full dehydration? When you dry up like a dead leaf? :-)

I take less than 1 Litre on a day walk, but in summer I often buy drinks
in addition, but when I get home and my weight is down by several pounds
and/or my pee is deep yellow I know it is due to dehydration.
Dehydration is a relative term, with infinite degrees of severity.
--
Gordon Harris

Rooney <[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

When I carry water, it's in the two side mesh pockets of the bag - no
stop is needed to reach to my side and remove/replace the bottle. But
I make sure I stop for scenery, smoking, gazing. wildlife, sunsets,
moonrises, sparkling becks, chatting to strangers, etc.

I only stop to take a drink when my companions beg me to stop to let
them rest, so I carry my water in a side pocket with a zip.
This way I have to stop and ask them to get my bottle out, and they
don't realise just how much they are slowing me down, they just think
I'm thirsty.
--
G
o
r
d
o
n

Fran said:

[email hidden] said...

Quoted message said:

"Gordon Harris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

stephenjones <[email hidden]> writes

>Seems like a lot of people reckon on dehydration as the cause of your
>headaches. Thing is, it's hard to dehydrate in Britain,

Depends on the person involved. On a day walk, I'll agree with Stephen,
it's very hard for an average person to dehydrate sufficiently. Don't
confuse the issue with hypothermia which is closely linked to dehydration.

IMHO it would take over a few days where dehydration would set in with the
UK weather.

I bet 90% of readers here could spend most of the day walking with less then
1/2 litre of water in their rucksacks and still not have dehydration. They
might be very thirsty! But not full dehyrdration.

True, but you (generic) could still be dehydrated to the point
of getting a headache or somesuch. I don't think any of us
were thinking of what might be described as 'full, clinical,
quick call an ambulance' dehydration, but it doesn't need to
get to that stage for discomfort to set in.

Correct.

druidh

On Wed, 2 Mar 2005 22:56:47 +0000, Gordon Harris <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I only stop to take a drink when my companions beg me to stop to let
them rest, so I carry my water in a side pocket with a zip.
This way I have to stop and ask them to get my bottle out, and they
don't realise just how much they are slowing me down, they just think
I'm thirsty.

That doesn't half come across as unfriendly. Why don't you hook up with
some other cheetah/camel hybrids and give your companions a break ?

--
I can't remember if I used to know that.

Mail john rather than nospam...

In message <[email hidden]>

druidh said:

Fran said:

True, but you (generic) could still be dehydrated to the point
of getting a headache or somesuch. I don't think any of us
were thinking of what might be described as 'full, clinical,
quick call an ambulance' dehydration, but it doesn't need to
get to that stage for discomfort to set in.

Correct.

druidh

It could be that the individual is suffering from a migraine headache
and that it is a change in their daily routine that is triggering this.
I have occasional migraine attacks and they can be exacerbated by
caffeine withdrawal, dehydration, low glucose levels, bright light, but
more often than not they also accompany relaxation after a stress filled
week. At one stage in my life I was suffering migraine attacks almost
every weekend and the doctors suggestion was not to take a break from
work!

--
o/ \\ // |\ ,_ o Mike Clark
<\__,\\ // __o | \ / /\, "A mountain climbing, cycling, skiing,
"> || _`\<,_ |__\ \> | immunology lecturer, antibody engineer and
` || (_)/ (_) | \corn computer user"

For the record: I get headaches if I run out of water, tho' bright sun
doesn't help nor being tired! If all 3 present its a guarantee, only 2
and probably OK

Mark

Even worse No Humidity plus temps of 50c you don't even Know you are
dehydrating as you don't sweat
Ploggo

"Dave Fawthrop" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Tue, 1 Mar 2005 15:21:06 +0000 (UTC), "stephenjones"
<[email hidden]> wrote:

| Isotonic powders and drinks are a con. My chemist tells me 1 teaspoon

salt

Quoted message said:

| and half a teaspon suger in a litre of water (roughly speaking) is what

they

Quoted message said:

| give to cholera sufferers in the third world, it stops them dying of

mineral

Quoted message said:

| imbalance. Personally, when going for long walks in hot climates, I

take a

Quoted message said:

| few apples with me, that sorts out any mineral deficiencies.
| For longer expeditions where mineral imbalance might become a problem

then a

Quoted message said:

| pocket full of dry fruit is fine.

I can confirm from personal experience that *in a hot climate* enough salt
is of equal importance to enough water. In Aden with a temperature of
blood heat and humid as hell, you sweated continuously. We had to eat

salt

Quoted message said:

tablets to stave off heat exhaustion.

In the UK, normal diet gives too much salt, and the temperatures and
humidity are nothing to write home about, so water alone is OK.

--
Dave F

Don't need a high temperature.

I get dehydrated driving to the south of Spain from the UK whilst leaving
the air conditioning on. It's insiduous, because the cold inside the car
puts me off wanting to drink anything other than hot coffee. UK coffee is
"super sized" so there is almost 1/2 litre of water in a capuchino, which
more than makes up for the diuretic affect of the caffeine, but on mainland
Europe the coffee comes in smaller cups so you get a strong dose of caffeine
with a lesser amount of water.
The first I know that I'm dehydrated is when I try and [censored] only to find
that nothing comes out and what does is very dark.

"Ploggo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Even worse No Humidity plus temps of 50c you don't even Know you are
dehydrating as you don't sweat
Ploggo

"Dave Fawthrop" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Tue, 1 Mar 2005 15:21:06 +0000 (UTC), "stephenjones"
<[email hidden]> wrote:

| Isotonic powders and drinks are a con. My chemist tells me 1 teaspoon

salt

Quoted message said:

| and half a teaspon suger in a litre of water (roughly speaking) is what

they

Quoted message said:

| give to cholera sufferers in the third world, it stops them dying of

mineral

Quoted message said:

| imbalance. Personally, when going for long walks in hot climates, I

take a

Quoted message said:

| few apples with me, that sorts out any mineral deficiencies.
| For longer expeditions where mineral imbalance might become a problem

then a

Quoted message said:

| pocket full of dry fruit is fine.

I can confirm from personal experience that *in a hot climate* enough
salt
is of equal importance to enough water. In Aden with a temperature of
blood heat and humid as hell, you sweated continuously. We had to eat

salt

Quoted message said:

tablets to stave off heat exhaustion.

In the UK, normal diet gives too much salt, and the temperatures and
humidity are nothing to write home about, so water alone is OK.

--
Dave F

Mike Clark said:

In message <[email hidden]>

druidh said:

Fran said:

True, but you (generic) could still be dehydrated to the point
of getting a headache or somesuch. I don't think any of us
were thinking of what might be described as 'full, clinical,
quick call an ambulance' dehydration, but it doesn't need to
get to that stage for discomfort to set in.

Correct.

druidh

It could be that the individual is suffering from a migraine headache
and that it is a change in their daily routine that is triggering this.
I have occasional migraine attacks and they can be exacerbated by
caffeine withdrawal, dehydration, low glucose levels, bright light, but
more often than not they also accompany relaxation after a stress filled
week. At one stage in my life I was suffering migraine attacks almost
every weekend and the doctors suggestion was not to take a break from
work!

Yep - been there. I've lost count of the number of Bank Holiday weekends
and starts of holidays when I've suffered migraines. This is due to 2
things; caffeine withdrawal and sudden lack of stress. However,
dehydration is another known factor when I can discount all the rest!

(oh the pain, the pain!)

druidh