Headaches hours after long runs

Just wondering if anyone had some advice on what might be causing my
headaches after long runs. In general, I wind up with a somewhat
incapacitating headache several hours after I finish a long run--I'm
currently working on building up for the LA marathon, so I'd like to
take
care of the problem before the runs get much longer. The headaches are

consistent with what occured the last time I was training for the LA
marathon (back in 2000) and they increased in severity as the long runs

approached the 20 mile mark.

My first thought about this was that it must be a dehydration issue,
but
that seems to have not panned out. I'm guessing that drinking enough
water
to have clear urine and a need to urinate about once an hour is
sufficient
to prove that I've got enough water in me.

So, a few things have come to mind as possibilities:

1. Hyponatremia--If I consume something salty after a run, this should
test
whether the headache is due to a salt deficiency, but how much salt
would I
have to eat? So far, eating something moderately salty (pretzels,
chips,
etc) doesn't have an impact on the headaches.

2. I drink coffee, generally 2-3 cups per day, and I keep that
consistent
on my long run days. Is it possible the increase in aerobic work could
be
causing the caffeine to metabolize more rapidly, or in someway
differently?
If so, is it possibly I'm basically getting a caffeine withdrawal
headache?

3. I have borderline high blood pressure, generally in the
130-140/80-90
range, and aerobic exercise is shown to reduce blood pressure some time

after the end of exercise. Is it possible a transient drop in blood
pressure that's occuring is causing the headaches?

4. Could it be a simple calorie deficiency? While I by no means
restrict
my calorie intake, long runs do demand a significant amount of calorie
burn
that I'm not getting on other days of the week.

Thanks,
Drew

Andrew Giacobe said:

Just wondering if anyone had some advice on what might be causing my
headaches after long runs.

Spinal misalignment in your neck/shoulders. See a chiropractor.

Quoted message said:

Just wondering if anyone had some advice on what might be causing my
headaches after long runs.

Self abuse.

Andrew Giacobe said:

Just wondering if anyone had some advice on what might be causing my
headaches after long runs.

As the previous poster mentioned a masturbation headache is a
possibility. See item 4.6.
http://www.dent.ucla.edu/sod/depts/oralfacial/courses/merrill/Misc_head.html

Maybe a change in post-run routine would be helpful.

~ * ORATION ~
MAKES SOCIETY DELIGHTFUL

Folly Makes Society Delightful ~ !

"But there are some, you'll say,
And those too none of the youngest,
That have a greater kindness for the pot
Than the petticoat and place their chiefest pleasure
In good fellowship.

If there can be any great entertainment
Without a woman at it,
Let others look to it.

This I am sure, there was never any pleasant
Which Folly gave not the relish to.

Insomuch that if they find no occasion of laughter,
They send for 'one that may make it,'

Or hire some buffoon flatterer,
Whose ridiculous discourse may put
By the gravity of the company.

For to what purpose were it to clog our stomachs
With dainties, junkets, and the like stuff,
Unless our eyes and ears,

Nay whole mind,
Were likewise entertained with jests,
Merriments, and laughter ~ ?
~ Erasmus,

Quoted message said:

From "In Praise of Folly"

http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/1509erasmus-folly.html

~ * ~

"Pardonez ~
Our acquaintance, previous,
Past perfect, dangling participle,
Or nouvelle ~ ?

O, do you mock me,
Or perchance, your invitation to dance,
Rather too insistent ~ ?"
~ Folly

If not due to dehydration, then I would next look at muscle tension in
shoulders and neck. If you are tightening up arms or shoulders as you
run longer...and get tired, then the muscles up the neck will feel the
tension. If they are not released from the tension, the tightness can
and will often cause a headache. Even more likely the problem would be
not balancing the head on the shoulders which is caused by looking down
from 6 to 10 feet in front of you. By doing that, the neck muscles are
having to hold up a 10 to 13 pound bowling ball, i.e. you head for 15 to
26 miles. So not looking at the horizon can be a pain not only in the
neck but in the head as those neck muscles are so tight that they pull
the tendon sheaths inserting into your skull.

What to do:

1. You have a sky hook in the top of your head. It is attached to a
helicopter which continually pulls your head vertically upward so that
your head is balanced over the shoulders. When you look down, you lower
your chin not your neck. May be where the saying "Get your head screwed
on straight" started.

2. To loosen the neck muscles. Interlace your fingers together with
the thumbs pointing up. Place the interlaced hands behind your head so
that the thumbs are resting on either side of the back of the neck. By
relaxing your shoulders and letting your elbows move slightly forward
you can put a lot of pressure with your thumbs on the neck muscles on
either side of the neck. If you nod yes a quarter of an inch up and a
quarter of an inch down, you can feel those muscles under your thumbs
relaxing. Start again and this time nod "No" and your can feel the
torque of the muscles under your thumbs.

3. Sit erect in a straight back chair. Have a friend, significant
other place their elbows in your shoulders on either side of the neck.
As they push down with their elbows into your shoulders with pressure
and some discomfort, but not creating pain, slowly raise your arms from
either side without raising the shoulders.

Remember the arms are pendulums that swing forward and backward in sync
with your foot stride. The pendulum is from the shoulder to the elbow.
If your arms are not swinging then you are carrying them for 15 to 26.2
miles. That lack of movement can be another cause of the headache.

Finally, if you are able to rotate your ring, you would be close fisted
to some extent. After 20+ years of running, I run with what Tai Chi
people call "Fair Maidens Hands." My hands are open and relaxed.
Sometimes as I run, as the hand swings forward, I stretch the fingers
forward.

Let me know which, if any, worked for you.

In health and on the run,

Ozzie Gontang
[email hidden]
Maintainer - rec.running FAQ
http://www.faqs.org/faqs/by-newsgroup/rec/rec.running.html
Director, San Diego Marathon Clinic, est. 1975

Mindful Running http://www.mindfulness.com/mr.asp

In article <[email hidden]>,

Quoted message said:

Just wondering if anyone had some advice on what might be causing my
headaches after long runs. In general, I wind up with a somewhat
incapacitating headache several hours after I finish a long run--I'm
currently working on building up for the LA marathon, so I'd like to
take
care of the problem before the runs get much longer. The headaches are

consistent with what occured the last time I was training for the LA
marathon (back in 2000) and they increased in severity as the long runs

approached the 20 mile mark.

My first thought about this was that it must be a dehydration issue,
but
that seems to have not panned out. I'm guessing that drinking enough
water
to have clear urine and a need to urinate about once an hour is
sufficient
to prove that I've got enough water in me.
--------snip---------
Thanks,
Drew

Uhmm...I'm just going to go out on a limb and say that my headaches are not
due to masturbation. Clearly, I've done that enough times without getting
a
headache that it's not an issue.

As for the two other theories--

I might have given some weight to the spinal misalignment if (a) it hadn't
been immediately preceded by the "self abuse" comment or (b) it had some
level of justification associated with it.

All I can really say is a nice thank you to Ozzie Gontang for taking the
time to put a thoughtful response together on this. I'm guessing it's
possible that the headaches could be due to tension, so I'll take heed of
some of the things you mentioned. Offhand, I'd guess there's a mild
possiblity that the headaches are due to muscle tension, but if I had to bet
I think there's something else.

Anyone got any other ideas?

Thanks in advance for the help--
Drew

Andrew Giacobe said:

Uhmm...I'm just going to go out on a limb and say that my headaches are not
due to masturbation. Clearly, I've done that enough times without getting
a
headache that it's not an issue.

Dude, 45 times a day is a bit much, even for a "sexual superman" such
as myself.

Quoted message said:

As for the two other theories--

I might have given some weight to the spinal misalignment if (a) it hadn't
been immediately preceded by the "self abuse" comment or (b) it had some
level of justification associated with it.

You need to look beyond the humor, and take my advice. Spinal
misalignment is a very common cause of headaches, and one of the most
overlooked causes on the planet.

Quoted message said:

All I can really say is a nice thank you to Ozzie Gontang for taking the
time to put a thoughtful response together on this. I'm guessing it's
possible that the headaches could be due to tension, so I'll take heed of
some of the things you mentioned. Offhand, I'd guess there's a mild
possiblity that the headaches are due to muscle tension, but if I had to bet
I think there's something else.

Spinal misalignment CAUSES muscle tension.

Andrew Giacobe said:

I'm just going to go out on a limb and say that my headaches are not
due to masturbation.

You may be right - none of us has access to the information you do.
OTOH we can all be more objective, with less at stake.

Regardless, in that web page -
http://www.dent.ucla.edu/sod/depts/oralfacial/courses/merrill/Misc_head.html
- did you notice the prior item: numero four spot five, the "benign
exertional headache"? Though the description is sufficiently vague
that it would seem to cover nearly any cranial panial on a day you got
out of bed and moved, and the only remedies it suggests are to stay in
bed or to take a smorgasbord of chemicals which sound to me like three
hallucinogens and a performance anxiety pill.

Quoted message said:

It's possible that the headaches could be due to tension

Ah, so now you're suggesting it could actually be _insufficient_ sexual
gratification. Well then, get to work!

Andrew Giacobe said:

Just wondering if anyone had some advice on what might be causing my
headaches after long runs.

I haven't the slighest idea and I get them too, but only after races or
long runs (and not systematically).

They're practically never incapacitating though.

Andrew Giacobe said:

My first thought about this was that it must be a dehydration issue, but
that seems to have not panned out. I'm guessing that drinking enough water
to have clear urine and a need to urinate about once an hour is sufficient
to prove that I've got enough water in me.

If you're urinating every hour, then you are probably getting adequate
fluids. But are you drinking before and during your long run? If so,
are you drinking something with electrolytes? If your urine is clear,
even during and after your long run, then my thinking is that you may
not be getting enough electrolytes and carbs.

Quoted message said:

1. Hyponatremia--If I consume something salty after a run, this should test
whether the headache is due to a salt deficiency, but how much salt would I
have to eat? So far, eating something moderately salty (pretzels, chips,
etc) doesn't have an impact on the headaches.

Could be, but you need to keep the sodium levels up during your run.
You can try Succeed! capsules. That will give you enough sodium
whithout having to eat on the run.
http://www.ultrafit-endurance.com/succeedcaps.html
I don't feel the need for the S! caps unless I'm running over 20 miles
and losing a lot of water from perspiration. Then it's 1 capsule (340
mg sodium) an hour starting at 30 minutes into the run. I doubt it's
hyponatremia. You'd have to be drinking tons of plain water all day
long, before and during your run while not eating any salty foods.

--
Phil M.

On 30 Nov 2005 06:13:35 -0800, "Charlie Pendejo" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

none of us has access to the information you do.

Um I do. He left his webcam on one day, and in a 24 hour period he
masturbated 49 times. I have the avi.

i get the same thing also, but not as severe. my guess is is has
something to do with the caffeine. i drink the same amount as you do,
and i just have a feeling that doing that kind of workout on a caffeine
buzz while you are dehydrating your body might have something to do
with it. also there are a lot of idiots on this forum today. just an
observation.

Dred said:

also there are a lot of idiots on this forum today. just an
observation.

Agreed. Sounds like you read the Kouros thread.

I second the muscle-tension hypothesis.
You might get someone to video tape a minute of running to see
if you are over-tensing something. You many have to consciously
relax your shoulders and forearms during a long run.
A massuer immediately after the run may be able to tell you
where the tension is (and cure it).

TBR said:

Um I do. He left his webcam on one day, and in a 24 hour period he
masturbated 49 times. I have the avi.

You're not fooling anyone - we all recognize *you* on that avi. And it
looks like you've been spotted: http://tinyurl.com/aru5d

Bad boy!

And what's with so many incidents in this area? I googled (news, then
web) "man sought indecent exposure boulder OR denver" and found quite
an array of separate, recent incidents from the last couple years. And
they're surely not *all* Bill...

rick++ said:

I second the muscle-tension hypothesis.
You might get someone to video tape a minute of running to see
if you are over-tensing something. You many have to consciously
relax your shoulders and forearms during a long run.
A massuer immediately after the run may be able to tell you
where the tension is (and cure it).

Good advice on the massuse, but only if a "happy ending" is included.

On 30 Nov 2005 21:43:28 -0800, "Charlie Pendejo" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

You're not fooling anyone - we all recognize *you* on that avi. And it
looks like you've been spotted: http://tinyurl.com/aru5d

Bad boy!

And what's with so many incidents in this area? I googled (news, then
web) "man sought indecent exposure boulder OR denver" and found quite
an array of separate, recent incidents from the last couple years. And
they're surely not *all* Bill...

Ok I admit it, they ARE all me. I'm a busy boy. Notice how the woman
ran AFTER me, rather than AWAY from me? They love me.