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Have O.S. got it right?

Started by Jeff C · · Last activity · 53 posts · 1,140 views

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General fitness, health and nutrition
Published
30 January 2005
Last activity
3 February 2005
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Jeff C
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  1. Do you know, I've just come across one of my old OS 1:25 000 first seriesmaps SK 18 ( Castleton, Derbyshire), and wow! it didn't half take me back!

    There was I, at the back end of the '60's catching a train into Manchesterthen another train to Hope (I thought it was so inconvenient not being ableto get a train to Castleton), with my Bukta rucksack with my pans danglingfrom the frame ( my army surplus tent which must have canvas a quarter ofinch thick, I'm sure, took most of the room up inside my rucksack) dressedin my scout shorts and wooly socks, one down at the ankle as usual and myscout badges firmly pieced into the leather shoulder straps of my rucksack.It was like the "Famous Five" only with four missing.

    Anyway it was time to get the map out and find a way to Rowters Farm where Iwould be setting up camp for a night. With my map opened out and a ratherdodgy old brass compass I planned my route. The compass soon got put away,it only ever pointed north, which wasn't the way I wanted to go! Anyway,having decided on the route I needed to take I was off.

    As I set off I noticed a campsite on the other side of the road that I didnot know about, and it was full of these strange tents like little houses,bungalows actually, I thought I must tell my dad what I'd seen when I gothome.

    The road was starting to get boring, but I noticed a steam over the wall, Ichecked my map, yes I thought, this will take me to Castleton. After whatseemed like an age I surfaced onto a road bridge just outside of Castleton.On reaching the village I stopped for a well earned ice cream.

    I can't recollect what route I took from here to Rowters Farm, except to sayI did arrive and set up my tent, although I remember not getting much sleepas it rained like I never seen or heard it before and my camp wasthoroughly soaked, Oh and I told my dad about them "funny" tents..........the family spent the next ten years on camping holidays.

    The point about this posting is that map was, and still is a fabulous mapand now I compare it with the same section on the Dark Peak Explorer thetopography has completely disappeared under a sea of signs for TouristInfo, Picnic, Caravan and Camping, View Points, Car Parks, Cycle Hire,Museums, NT Boundaries, Public Houses, Fishing Spots, Walking Trails, OpenAccess Boundaries and Field Boundaries.

    That stream I walked along as a lad as almost disappeared!

    Do we really need a map to tell us where the Pubs are? and if so wouldn'tthe old P.H. do instead of a big blue pint pot.

    On the new map the contours of Rushup Edge, Mam Tor, Hollins Cross and LoseHill have all but disappeared under field boundaries. I know wallboundaries are helpful, I've used them to take back bearings to establishmy position, in poor conditions, but printed in black they spoil the map (ooooh that last sentence is almost a poem!).

    The old map was printed in four colours only, Orange, Blue, Black and Grey.The same field boundaries are still there in the old map but are printed ingrey and blend in with the orange contours, but are still visible if youcare to look. All these changes have sneaked up on us.

    I'm beginning to wonder who these maps are intended for, I mean I work withseventy people at my place of work, I bet if I asked most of them if theyhad a map of the Lake District most would come back with the AA Big RoadAtlas of Great Britain (and probably the 1999 version to boot!). So itwon't be them that's buying them, so it must only be walkers who need thelevel of detail in a 1:25 000 map. I'm quite sure the ordinary man in thestreet is going to buy a map of this detail just so he can find the nearestpicnic spot.

    I don't know why the OS don't go all the way and print the MRT's telephonenumber on all the hills in the area.

    That old map as got a lot to answer for now, I'm quite angry!

    When I was a lad that old map was like a treasure map to me I'd pour overthe detail for hours I'm sure, so full of adventure and mystery.

    Well I've had my rant, what to you think?

  2. Jeff, I don't know what you posted with but you might like to check the
    settings and line wrap.

    Anyway.... I fully agree that modern OS maps are overloaded with detail. All
    the different colours and extra labels are bloody confusing at times. I like
    the move to pictures like the Pint Glass to show rural pubs as opposed to a
    little P.H. which can be tricky to find when you really really want a meal
    and drink in a warm place. These are also more internationally
    understandable.

    If I ran the OS I would remove the National Trust purple and the Open Access
    yellow land boundary markings, the Parish and District (maybe even County)
    borders, the Forestry Commission borders etc, I don't really care who owns
    the land as long as I can see paths to walk on that aren't confused with all
    the other lines on a map.

    Nick

  3. On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 22:11:25 GMT, Jeff C <[email hidden]>
    wrote:

    <SNIP> all

    I think you need to get your line lengths sorted out. About 80
    characters is normal.

    On the subject of maps... I'm not the best person to ask because I
    tend to use 1:50000. Whenever I use a 1:25000 I always seem to be
    wallking in the area half on one side of the sheet and half on the
    other. This rapidly proves annoying.

    Saying that, I've not had any problems with detail when I have used
    1:25000 maps. I can appreciate what you mean about the new large
    symbols - they could be smaller, admittedly, but it probably helps
    people who don't have 20/20 vision.

  4. "Nick Pedley" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Jeff, I don't know what you posted with but you might like to check the
    settings and line wrap.


    Oops! sorry!

    I usually use OE because its so featureless, that nothing can really go
    wrong! I've tried dedicated Newsreader such as Agent and Turnpike, but for
    some reason I don't like them.

    The last message I posted with Pocomail, I'll look into it see what I can
    do.

    Is the problem that the text fills the whole screen?

    I read the message I sent with Pocomail with OE and noticed this.

    This messesge is being sent via OE

    astrecks(at)yahooyourbrain(dot)com (remove your brain to reply)

    http://www.astrecks.co.uk
    Always look on the bright side of life (De do, de do, de doody doody do)

  5. I think the latest maps with the CROW info on are great, I've looked at the
    ridge you mentioned, but I can see the contours just fine. Pubs are a
    landmark at the end of the day, like air shafts, dams and shooting cabins.

    Car parks and field boundaries are essential!

    I would be interested in a larger scale mapping, though. For walkers the
    area covered by an Explorer is over kill, I'd like seperate 1:10,000 (or
    similar) maps for Kinder, Bleaklow, Upper Derwent, etc.

    Now just think how detailed they would be with the CROW access, etc.

  6. "JeffC" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "Nick Pedley" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Jeff, I don't know what you posted with but you might like to check the
    settings and line wrap.


    Oops! sorry!

    I usually use OE because its so featureless, that nothing can really go
    wrong! I've tried dedicated Newsreader such as Agent and Turnpike, but for
    some reason I don't like them.

    The last message I posted with Pocomail, I'll look into it see what I can
    do.

    Is the problem that the text fills the whole screen?


    Yep. And the little arrows at the side were missing when I tried to reply.

    Quoted message said:

    I read the message I sent with Pocomail with OE and noticed this.

    This messesge is being sent via OE


    It works now, it was the linewrap thingy whatever... ;-)

    Nick

  7. Nick Pedley said:

    If I ran the OS I would remove the National Trust purple and the Open Access
    yellow land boundary markings, the Parish and District (maybe even County)
    borders, the Forestry Commission borders etc, I don't really care who owns
    the land as long as I can see paths to walk on that aren't confused with all
    the other lines on a map.

    If you'd like to run for that position, I'll vote for you. I buy 1:25000
    maps which say "outdoor leisure" on them. I don't need no steenking parish
    boundaries, marked as they are in solid green just to cause maximum
    confusion to walkers ;-) I also find it hard to make out some of the
    non-ROW paths which are of course no problem in access land.

    --
    The only successful substitute for brains: Silence!

    Mail john rather than nospam...

  8. On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 23:40:54 +0000, Lewis wrote:

    Lewis wrote,

    Quoted message said:

    Pubs are a landmark at the end of the day, like air shafts,
    dams and shooting cabins.

    It must be me becoming one of those "grumpy old men" but I notice that air
    shafts and log cabins are not identified by flippin' huge blue splodges!
    Seriously I don't need a map to find a pub at the end of the day! It is
    inevitable that I will probably pass one or two pubs on the way home.

    Quoted message said:


    Car parks and field boundaries are essential!

    Again older maps were marked with C.P. in blue, what's wrong with that? I
    never said field boundaries weren't essential quote " I know wallboundaries
    are helpful, I've used them to take back bearings to establish my position,in
    poor conditions, but printed in black they spoil the map."

    Unfortunately without seeing the map I'm referring to you won't be able to
    appreciate what I'm talking about.

    Quoted message said:

    I would be interested in a larger scale mapping, though. For
    walkers the area covered by an Explorer is over kill, I'd like
    seperate 1:10,000 (or similar) maps for Kinder, Bleaklow, Upper
    Derwent, etc.

    The old first series maps gave you this, handy 10 km x 10 km maps, all be it
    still at 1:25 000 and without all this crud OS seems intent on putting on itnew
    maps, the detail was spectacular, even if some of it was muted colours, allthe
    detail was there to see if you looked.

    Quoted message said:

    Now just think how detailed they would be with the CROW access, etc.

    If people act responsibly and with common sense when out walking theCountryside
    and Rights of Way Act 2000 would not have been needed. I have walked andclimbed
    all over the country for over 35 years and never had even a hint of access
    trouble

    Jim Millen said:

    I think you need to get your line lengths sorted out. About 80
    characters is normal.

    Quoted message said:

    my apologies to everyone, using a new reader! It's sorted now!

    Quoted message said:

    On the subject of maps... I'm not the best person to ask because I
    tend to use 1:50000. Whenever I use a 1:25000 I always seem to be
    wallking in the area half on one side of the sheet and half on the
    other. This rapidly proves annoying.

    Saying that, I've not had any problems with detail when I have used
    1:25000 maps. I can appreciate what you mean about the new large
    symbols - they could be smaller, admittedly, but it probably helps
    people who don't have 20/20 vision.

    I can't even see the big blue splodges with out my specs.

    Regards Jeff.

    www.astrecks.co.uk

    If it works..............DON'T fix it
    No Virus Checker? try this free one from AVG it is very good:-http://www.grisoft.com/us/us_dwnl_free.php
    For a new experience in e-mail clients try:- http://www.pocomail.com/ 
    Kill SPAM forever! Protect your family with Spamjab from:-http://www.spamjab.com/

  9. John Laird said:
    Nick Pedley said:

    If I ran the OS I would remove the National Trust purple and the
    Open Access yellow land boundary markings, the Parish and
    District (maybe even County) borders, the Forestry Commission
    borders etc, I don't really care who owns the land as long as I
    can see paths to walk on that aren't confused with all the other
    lines on a map.

    If you'd like to run for that position, I'll vote for you. I buy
    1:25000 maps which say "outdoor leisure" on them. I don't need no
    steenking parish boundaries, marked as they are in solid green just
    to cause maximum confusion to walkers ;-) I also find it hard to
    make out some of the non-ROW paths which are of course no problem
    in access land.

    Here! Here! harking back at my old map again, the only boundaries that are
    visible are the physical one's

    Regards Jeff.

    www.astrecks.co.uk

    If it works..............DON'T fix it
    No Virus Checker? try this free one from AVG it is very good:-http://www.grisoft.com/us/us_dwnl_free.php
    For a new experience in e-mail clients try:- http://www.pocomail.com/ 
    Kill SPAM forever! Protect your family with Spamjab from:-http://www.spamjab.com/

  10. Bitstring <[email hidden]>, from the
    wonderful person John Laird <[email hidden]> said

    Quoted message said:
    Nick Pedley said:

    If I ran the OS I would remove the National Trust purple and the Open Access
    yellow land boundary markings, the Parish and District (maybe even County)
    borders, the Forestry Commission borders etc, I don't really care who owns
    the land as long as I can see paths to walk on that aren't confused with all
    the other lines on a map.

    If you'd like to run for that position, I'll vote for you. I buy 1:25000
    maps which say "outdoor leisure" on them. I don't need no steenking parish
    boundaries, marked as they are in solid green just to cause maximum
    confusion to walkers ;-) I also find it hard to make out some of the
    non-ROW paths which are of course no problem in access land.

    ? I get my 1:25k mapping from Tracklogs (digitally) and the Parish
    boundaries are just dotted lines (OK 'bold dotted lines' compared to
    non-ROW FPs, which are dashed). I don't have any problem distinguishing
    any of it, especially when I print them at 1:12500, double sided,
    although I would allow as how district council boundaries look a bit
    like smudged field boundaries (which I do use)..

    When I 'get-a-map' at 1:25k I see the same thing .. so what's with the
    'green parish boundaries'?

    --
    GSV Three Minds in a Can
    Outgoing Msgs are Turing Tested,and indistinguishable from human typing.

  11. I think when digital mapping really takes off you'll be able to turn these
    features off in layers, then you could order a map exactly as you want it.
    I'd love to see a 1:10000 scale or something along those lines, I've only
    been walking for a couple of years so the surrent Explorer and the one
    before are the only ones I've used.

    The CROW act is pretty much the icing on the cake, as in the Peak we had
    access to most of the good stuff anyway. Having said that since September
    I've been to a few places I'd have not tried before, as I would have been
    trespassing, the land we can walk on has doubled since the act.

    I've had another look at the map, and I think I might be coming round to
    your way of thinking. They even have caravan sites and conference centres
    marked!

    Lewis

  12. I noticed that Message-ID:
    <[email hidden]> from Lewis
    contained the following:

    Quoted message said:

    I think when digital mapping really takes off you'll be able to turn these
    features off in layers, then you could order a map exactly as you want it.
    I'd love to see a 1:10000 scale or something along those lines, I've only
    been walking for a couple of years so the surrent Explorer and the one
    before are the only ones I've used.

    Guess I'm not the only one who finds the magnifying glass on the compass
    invaluable...

    --
    Geoff Berrow (put thecat out to email)
    It's only Usenet, no one dies.
    My opinions, not the committee's, mine.
    Simple RFDs http://www.ckdog.co.uk/rfdmaker/

  13. GSV Three Minds in a Can said:

    When I 'get-a-map' at 1:25k I see the same thing .. so what's with the
    'green parish boundaries'?

    Oops. Don't post late at night, don't post late at night...

    The solid green lines are NT boundaries, and whenever I forget it takes me
    about 5 mins to work it out from the legend. Very easy to confuse with ROW
    markings.

    Plain paths are dotted lines which are are very difficult to distinguish
    (imho) from the smallest boundaries which are slightly dashed and equally
    faint.

    I'll get me coat.

    --
    Yesterday's flower children are today's blooming idiots.

    Mail john rather than nospam...

  14. "Lewis" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    I think when digital mapping really takes off you'll be able to turn these
    features off in layers, then you could order a map exactly as you want it.
    I'd love to see a 1:10000 scale or something along those lines, I've only
    been walking for a couple of years so the surrent Explorer and the one
    before are the only ones I've used.


    I can see a market for Walking maps, Tourist maps, land ownership maps and
    probably other uses. Right now the OS are trying to provide all things to
    all users on the same product.

    Nick

  15. In message <[email hidden]>

    John Laird said:
    GSV Three Minds in a Can said:

    When I 'get-a-map' at 1:25k I see the same thing .. so what's with the
    'green parish boundaries'?

    Oops. Don't post late at night, don't post late at night...

    The solid green lines are NT boundaries, and whenever I forget it takes me
    about 5 mins to work it out from the legend. Very easy to confuse with ROW
    markings.

    Plain paths are dotted lines which are are very difficult to distinguish
    (imho) from the smallest boundaries which are slightly dashed and equally
    faint.

    And in some cases they are far more important than the right of way - look
    at the north face of Dale Head to see what I mean.

    I'm in full agreement with complaints about the number of symbols and thick
    boundary lines. "PH" for a public house was equally informative and far
    less obtrusive than what we get now. Having all these symbols is OK when
    you're trying to plan a route, but when I'm out then I'd prefer to know
    exactly what is on the ground. Up in the mist I'd prefer to know where a
    real path actually is, not where I legally have a right to walk.

    I'd also like the ultimate digital map that lets me choose my units, so I
    can print all the heights out in feet :-)

    --
    The Acorn Elite Pages: http://elite.acornarcade.com/
    Three Dimensional Encounters:
    http://www.helvellyn.plus.com/3dfrontier

  16. Bitstring <[email hidden]>, from the wonderful person
    Nick Pedley <[email hidden]> said

    Quoted message said:


    "Lewis" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    I think when digital mapping really takes off you'll be able to turn these
    features off in layers, then you could order a map exactly as you want it.
    I'd love to see a 1:10000 scale or something along those lines, I've only
    been walking for a couple of years so the surrent Explorer and the one
    before are the only ones I've used.


    I can see a market for Walking maps, Tourist maps, land ownership maps and
    probably other uses. Right now the OS are trying to provide all things to
    all users on the same product.

    Only if you insist on retail paper products. Go look at the OS website
    and see what they can actually sell you (for loadsa-dosh) if you really
    want something you can customize to your heart's content.

    --
    GSV Three Minds in a Can
    Outgoing Msgs are Turing Tested,and indistinguishable from human typing.

  17. Simon Challands said:

    In message <[email hidden]>
    John Laird <[email hidden]> wrote:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    The solid green lines are NT boundaries, and whenever I forget it takes
    me
    about 5 mins to work it out from the legend. Very easy to confuse with
    ROW markings.

    Memories of blazing a trail from Irton Fell into Mitredale following the
    wrong kind of green line ;-) At least you can't mistake the purple plague
    on the newer maps for a footpath.
    --
    Dave

  18. Nick Pedley <[email hidden]> writes

    Quoted message said:


    I can see a market for Walking maps, Tourist maps, land ownership maps and
    probably other uses. Right now the OS are trying to provide all things to
    all users on the same product.


    I am happy with what the OS produce, notably the 1:25,000 series.
    Those who can - do, those who can't - criticise. ;-)
    --
    Gordon Harris

  19. Gordon Harris said:

    Nick Pedley <[email hidden]> writes

    Quoted message said:


    I can see a market for Walking maps, Tourist maps, land ownership maps and
    probably other uses. Right now the OS are trying to provide all things to
    all users on the same product.


    I am happy with what the OS produce, notably the 1:25,000 series.
    Those who can - do, those who can't - criticise. ;-)

    I believe their map of the Grasmere area is very useful, but I've
    never actually seen it underneath the layer of purple!

    --

    R
    o
    o
    n
    e
    y

  20. Rooney <[email hidden]> writes

    Quoted message said:
    Gordon Harris said:

    I am happy with what the OS produce, notably the 1:25,000 series.
    Those who can - do, those who can't - criticise. ;-)

    I believe their map of the Grasmere area is very useful, but I've
    never actually seen it underneath the layer of purple!


    I just had a quick glance at my Tracklogs of the ELD and found huge
    splodges of blue dotted about, too. ;-)

    Badgerbadgerbadger.
    --
    Gordon Harris

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